For the first time ever I am actually angry with my mum

[OrmIrian]

Love mum dearly but she is a bit of a muppet about certain things. I know she likes my DS#1 best (she's said that much before to me) or all my DC. I know that when I was young she preferred db to me - just one of those quietly accepted things. She is sometimes very hard on my DD. But today took the biscuit - I was on the floor at the back of the sitting room playing Moustrap with DD and DS#2 and my dad. Mum was talking to my auntie. Out of the blue the conversation turned to my DD - and there were horrible about her, quite innocent little childish habits were being described as really horrible, nasty character traits. This went on for about 5 mins until I stood up and changed the subject (DD was able to hear but not sure that she heard).

It occurred to me that it is always girls that get the worst of my mum's critisism. My DD, my neice, me (as a child), and my aunt is the same about her GCs. Boys get away with so many things. Including my sons .It makes me so mad. DD is a loving, kind, clever child and does not deserve this. Do I say anything about this and risk a big row or just keep protecting her from the occasional explicit expression of this prejudice?

OrmIrian, sad for you that this is happening - agree that it is probably a good idea to say something about it - but you could link it to your DM's own childhood (NOT your own, that wouldn't help)
Along the lines of "I am sorry that you didn't ever feel valued etc. by parents cos you weren't a boy (or whatever reason) but I don't think you should treat my DD in the same way as you were treated." (probably an exaggeration as they might not be being that mean) - if you can somehow relate it to your ma's own horrible upbringing, she might see that it is so hurtful for your DD to be treated in that way.

She might not. but defo don't include your own ishoos with it, cos that will throw her on the defensive immediately.

Just an idea, anyway.

My mother is a bit like this. She seems to find it very difficult to accept that little girls are little girls. She is at least a little bit aware of this, but I don't think there is anything I can do about it, and actually I'm not sure it is always incredibly damaging. We were always aware that she favoured my brother over us girls (I have two sisters) but to be honest we always felt a little sorry for him. I think it is because my mother doesn't have a very good opinion of herself as a woman, so when she seems her granddaughters doing typically girly things, she puts a really bad slant on it. I really do think she thinks they are using their sexual wiles, and she cannot understand why we think that it is sweet when they try and be grown up rather than offensive and difficult as she thinks. I pull her up when I am really irritated, but I know it won't make much difference. Luckily dd has a pretty high self opinion and gets lots of validation from pretty much everyone else in her life, so I go along with the explaining my mother to dd rather than attempting to fix things the other way around. ds on the other hand can probably do with a bit of a boost. My grandparents favoured my cousin over all their other grandchildren (my aunt died when she was tiny). We just made sure if any of us wanted something when we stayed with the GPs we got her to ask!

'cackling like old witches' really appallingly not on. This behaviour needs to change in front of your dd. Kids pick up on this stuff.

I think I'd have a sharp, cool word with mum. 'Please keep your thoughts to yourself and certainly do not parade your negative views of dd within our earshot.'

Your feet will probably bleed after stamping over all the eggshells, but a polite request needs to be made here IMO.

Have you discussed this incident with DD already?

At nine, children pay acute attention to adult conversations (I was a world-class eavesdropper at that age - am surprised MI5 didn't recruit me). She will be quietly mulling over every word. The danger is if you ignore it, she might make some sort of silence = concurrence link.

She's old enough to know that some people are damaged by their own childhood experiences and that she should pay no attention to what her grandmother and great-aunt said.

And then I'd go back and rip them both a fucking new one. Your mum may be fragile but no adult is as fragile as a nine-year-old child.

Thanks again.

astarte I wouldn't do that. In many ways she is loving to my DD and to all my DC. It's just her way. And that is what I need tackle, not banish her from their lives.

OK, have formulated a plan. Conversation with her along the lines of how bloody wonderful DD is and how proud I am of her, and then something along the lines of 'don't you just hate it the way some women seem to criticise other women so harshly. I couldn't imagine a nicer child than X, but I know some mothers who prefer sons.' Or something of that sort. Then if and when she brings up the subject of her childhood, steer the subject round to how she talks about DD. Good plan? Or should I be more aggressive?

No ninedragons I haven't. She was busy ad happy playing with her DBs all evening. Didn't want to upset her if she wasn't aware of the whole thing in the first place.

Sounds good but do you think your mum would actually realise you are talking about how she is with your dd?

TBH i would tackle it head on. I would ask if she realised that when she and your aunt were saying things about your dd the other day that dd heard and was upset?

IME my mum could not see (and still doesn't)
that she was playing favourites etc. People like our mums are in denial and don't see that they are doing anything wrong

I really feel for you as talking about crap like this really opened up a can of worms for my family and things haven't been the same since,but i wasn't prepared for my dd's to ever feel the way i did growing up.

I think you need to give dd the opportunity to talk about it. Because she may well have heard but just not said anything. Not a leading question but just a chance to chat.

It's shit, isn't it? I was VERY conscious that my paternal grandmother and father both preferred me to my little sister, who apparently 'should' have been a boy. Made me cringe and feel both guilty and very sad for my lovely sister. Then my half-sister came along and I got knocked off my throne, so at least we were equally neglected, which was a relief in some ways, although very hurtful.

you could try what my friend calls The Praise Sandwich.

Start, by telling her what a lovely Granny she is
Middle, slip in a bit about how she should be careful with her disgraceful outspken negativity towards dd
Finish, by reassuring her how much all your dc love her.

At least this way it would be hard for her to get too defensive with you, and it doesn't sound like you want to go in all guns blazing.

Orm, your allegiance is to your kids not your mam.
You said - In many ways she is loving to my DD and to all my DC. It's just her way. And that is what I need tackle, not banish her from their lives. And you also said she is as fragile as cut glass. Well SO IS YOUR DAUGHTER!! Sort it out, or else your daughter is going to grow up and resent you for not sticking up for her.

I would have personally told the two of them to get the hell out of my house!. Re your fortcoming convo with them I would tell her that you heard what she said about your daughter and that it was totally uncalled for. Make it clear that there are consequences for her actions (i.e she does that again, she leaves). Don't go around the houses convo wise; get straight to the point.

I would tackle this favouritism problem head on with your Mum because if you do not you are then seen by your family unit to condone it. If a friend said this you'd certainly say something; your Mother is NO different in this regard. Just because she is your parent does not mean that she and her aunt can come into your house and talk derisively about your daughter even if she may not have heard anything. Both of them are certinaly old enough to know better.

My guess is as well that your Mum may not change her ways; these attitudes are deeply rooted and often go back to childhood themselves (they being girls in their family were likely less favoured themselves). But that said, it is still no justification for their behaviour. Ignorance as well is no excuse.

You are your DD's mother and as such it is your job to protect her. You pull your Mother up for this behaviour and you will have done yourselves a huge service. She will get the message if you are firm enough.

You may also want to read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

I would also say that if she denies it all and or says you've overreacted/misheard/made it all up this is also a typical toxic parent type response. They rarely apologise and or take any responsibility for their actions.

slave - my allegiance is to both of them IMO. But I take your point. Yes, my DD comes first.

attila - it was my parents' house not mine. Not that it makes much difference. I want to change her attitude but I want to avoid hurting her if I can. She will deny it if I tackle her head on, I know from past experience.

Orm, I can see that. Sorry, a bit of a rough day.

No problem

Your Mum and Aunt sound a bit batty, tbh.

I think your plan is a good one, hopefully she will take it on board and stop spouting her opinions so readily. I think it is best not to go in with all guns blazing or she will stop listening and just be angry and offended.

I can see how this must be upsetting for you,and as you say, you can't change her feelings, only ask that she modifies her behaviour.

You say that in other ways she is a good grandma, so I think some of the posts about stopping her from seeing the children and the massive damage she is doing to your dd are a bit of an over reaction.

Just peeked at your profile btw, your dd is gorgeous and has a lovely smile

Thankyou frank She's a bit of a cracker isn't she? I reckon they swapped her at the hospital....