Would or could you get your relationship back on track after this?

[Twoddle]

I posted on here quite a bit about a year ago, about my partner - who I'd just separated from at the time - and concerns I had about his mental health.

After a high-energy autumn in 2006, he had spent the first half of last year feeling very depressed, not going into work, and struggling to get up in the morning. He then went on a course in the autumn, which had the effect of a switch flicking him the other way: he came back manic, with exhausting energy, setting up multiple businesses, spending a fortune, sleeping little and going out lots, and eventually - possibly in reaction to my own exasperation with him - started a couple of affairs weeks before ending our 11-year relationship.

The last couple of years have been defined by this pattern of ups and downs. A year ago, my gut feeling was that this was more than a typical mood swing; that something was "wrong" - and I flagged up bipolar disorder then, which infuriated XP. I was convinced, however, that he wasn't really himself.

By the summer, XP was more himself for a month or two, and genuinely remorseful, and we talked about looking tentatively at reconciliation. I said that I would insist he look into the possibility of bipolar, which he has done: the psychiatrist he saw is on the fence, saying all the symptoms are there, but it could have been a case of being "young, rich and stupid". So XP will be monitored at three-monthly intervals over the coming year.

Now, a year on from the high and the split, XP is low again. He is sleeping for Britain, generally quite negative and vacant - miles away - a lot of the time; by his own admission, he feels "lost". I understand, to a degree, why this is: his distractedness and excessive spending last year jeopardised our business, and he is now facing the prospect of making people redundant and closing the business, which he feels mortified about. He is also consumed with remorse and guilt about his behaviour a year ago, and the effects it has had on me, our child, our extended family and friendships, and our finances.

All of this is obviously feeding into making reconciliation difficult. We're drifting along in this no-man's-land of shall we make a go of it or not, is there a mental health problem that we can pin all this on and bring under control or not ... is it actually me who's lost my marbles by suggesting that someone who could be pretty much fine is mentally unwell?! I do sometimes feel a bit like I must be going mad.

We can be around each other fine, XP comes over quite a bit to be with our little one, we get along OK, sometimes having a laugh, he does his bit when he's here - but, maybe because of everything that has happened and because XP is yet again not himself and instead almost like a shell, all the niggly things really piss me off; the annoying little quirks which can go unnoticed when there's a much stronger character/attraction/rapport there. I am finding it a strain to be the positive one most of the time, and very hard to respect XP in the aftermath of his high.

I really miss the person he was before this mood rollercoaster began a couple of years ago - laid back, happy-go-lucky, confident, conscientious, positive, likeable. Little of it is there at the moment; when I look at him, I think God, I used to really fancy you (I don't mean in a solely physical way) - and I'm not seeing it right now.

Do I find more compassion and support and hang in there, believing the old XP can return in time and with help? Do I accept that if respect and attraction are gone, at least for the moment, that it's over? Is it reasonable, if we do try to reconcile, that I lay down the law as to what I expect of him (principally, to take responsiblity for managing his moods) - or would that be being controlling? I know that, ultimately, I have to decide all this myself, but knowing what others think, who aren't so close into this, could be helpful. Thanks.

If this has been happening over a period of a couple of years then I am amazed that he hasnt already been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder.
Has he been prescribed any type of medication to help with his mood?

www.mind.org.uk/Information/Booklets/Understanding/Understanding+manic+depression.htm

I think you need to talk to organisations that have vast experience in the field of mental health.

It may help you to talk to MIND as they have seen these types of situations many times before now (link above).

Do you want to be in a relationship with him because you love him and feel there is a way through or do you consider reconciliation because you can get on ok when he comes to see little one and you feel that this is a sign you can be together?

You can be co-parents and have a good relationship that way.

I think you can miss the way someone used to be but sometimes there is too much water under the bridge to bring that back. Nostalgia is great but can be misleading.

At the end of the day, only you know if it can ever work. Do you love him? When you think about your future does it include him as your husband or as your ex?

tiredemma - I had my suspicions in late 2006, when after a high-energy autumn, XP crashed mid-December and that was it, low for the best part of six months. He wasn't having any of it at the time - and of course since he didn't take himself to see someone, there was no diagnosis. The first time he saw someone was this autumn just gone. From what I understand, getting a diagnosis - if, indeed, it's the right one - typically takes between five and ten years. What has to happen is for the patterns to play out over time, which of course they have now done.

I was a bit surprised too, that the psychiatrist whom XP saw didn't outright diagnose XP, since his presentation is pretty textbook. Going purely by the definitions and guidance of the DSM-IV, XP has it. But perhaps it's wise for the chap XP is seeing to not rush with a diagnosis and instead see what unfolds for himself. In the meantime, no meds have been prescribed, although I have suggested to XP that he might want to think about this and mention is to the psychiatrist, who he will see again later this week. It's going to take the best part of six months to break apart our business, which XP is finding very stressful, yet he seems resigned to feeling low for the duration of this process. I just end up ranting about not indulging the depression, not allowing it run him (rather than the other way around), and that if he feels like staying in bed upon waking after nine hours' sleep, he should make himself get up and fight it and do some exercise or similar - not indulge it with another four hours' sleep. But of course this makes me a ranting, nagging codependent, and that's someone I don't want to be. He has got to do something about this, and I suppose in as far as seeing a specialist goes, he is.

But God it's a slow, exasperating and unsettling process.

Thanks for posting, BTW.

As someone who is working hard to make a bipolar relationship work you have my sympathies.

To my (unprofessional) eye this looks like classic symptoms.

I would strongly recommend seeing another psychiatrist.

I would not recommend making any further decisions about your relationship (certainly not becoming more involved) unless he is on meds and receiving counselling - both key in my experience.

It is very hard. I think he needs professional help.

As Atilla has already suggested, Contact MIND- you need help through this too.

The five to ten years diagnosis thing I feel is a bit of a myth, of course nobody wants to be slapped with a MH label- but he is showing classic signs of a mood disorder and its unfair to both him and you for the psychaitrist to delay his diagnosis. How can he be treated if you don't know what you are treating.

Is he under the care of a Community Mental Health team?

Thanks, Attila. I have been in touch with MDF (the UK's bipolar charity), but not MIND - I'll maybe give them a call. When I rang MDF shortly after we separated a year ago, when I was concerned about XP's behaviour, they advised me to have him sectioned. It seemed so extreme at the time - surely I couldn't really be being advised to do this - so I didn't. Having read extensively about bipolar now, I can see that XP has had most of the symptoms. I need to figure out if a future can be carved out together when bipolar may already have done its worst. You are right, Idrank - only I can make this decision.

I know that my dithering is influenced by not wanting my child to have separated parents from such an early age, and the lifestyle of comings and goings, suitcases and separations that this entails. I am sooo close to my son, partly because of his age and partly because of what he's been through - witnessing XP's moods close-up over the past couple of years and being caught up in the fallout - and he hates separating to go off and see Dad. We were a couple that friends couldn't imagine separating; I can't really believe life is working out like this.

boudoirricca - you have my sympathies. Happy to chat/support off-thread, if you're interested. I am CAT-able.

XP is now under the care of the Community Mental Health Team - he is seeing his psychiatrist through them. He really likes this psychiatrist, which I think is a significant plus, given how reluctant he was about going; he needs to have a rapport with and respect for the person [who may be] treating him. He will see him again Friday. Is it worth me contacting the CMHT myself - or would that be interfering?

Is it normal for this kind of experience - seeing a partner move between moods - to play tricks with the mind? Sometimes, I speak to XP on the phone and he sounds fine, almost chirpy, and I think what I have I been worrying about?! He seems fine! And then he says or does little things and I think, wait a minute, maybe not. There does seem to be scope here for feeling like I am losing the plot myself. XP's adoring mum is emphatic that he does not have bipolar and that his behaviour in recent years has been a reaction to feeling repressed. That doesn't help bolster my conviction!

I know it's easy to get angry and frustrated, but try to remember that this is an illness. And he needs help.

Great news that he has found a psychiatrist he can work with - I agree this is a big positive. You don't say if he's on meds? I know this is a big issue and am not normally one for throwing chemicals at things, but ADs (- even a short course?) and mood stabilizers can make a huge difference...

I think he needs time and space to sort himself out - and become himself again, before you can make any decisions about your future. Can you do that?

i really couldnt get over two affairs. i dont care what lable you give it.

boudoiricca - XP is not on meds. When he first saw the psychiatrist a month ago, he wasn't as low as he his now, so wasn't prescribed anything. The meds issue is controversial. Every book seems to say that meds are unquestionnably a part of the treatment plan - but few people seem to have something positive to say about them. And of course, it has to be remembered that as yet, XP has no diagnosis - so what is even being treated here? It could be bipolar, XP's mum thinks it's a reaction to feeling repressed (), and a psychiatrist I spoke to informally about it all said he doesn't believe bipolar exists, that the meds are awful and all about making money for the big pharmaceuticals, and that XP probably needs psychoanalysis for a personality disorder!

In the midst of all this, I'm half-hanging on to the possiblity of keeping our relationship together and DS's life on an even keel.

You are right that I need to remember XP may have an illness, and that anger and the like on my part should be kept in check. This is very difficult at times, because the fallout of his high a year ago has been astronomical. He has lost tens of thousands of pounds of my money, and blown money that would have paid for the house/retirement income/DS going to university - not all of it, but he's made a significant dent. Feeling half-compassionate towards and half-furious with someone is a bit of a head f*ck, TBH.

Custardo - two affairs. Hmm. Well, they went on for only a few weeks before he pulled the plug - not for months/years. They were not emotional affairs, which I think can be worse. And they were possibly down to the sexual inhibition that can go with a manic episode - so not the real person doing it, IYSWIM. Not unpainful by any stretch, but I would say more forgiveable than some kinds of infidelity.

Yes, he does need time and space to sort himself out, if he decides to do so. He'd like our relationship to work again ASAP but I think it would be premature, and his emotional neediness at the moment can feel a bit suffocating. I realise I may be sounding a bit harsh about him sometimes, given that he may be unwell - mine and DS's lives have been part of the collateral damage here, though, so compassion fatigue is probably inevitable.

Thanks for posts. Useful to hear others' thoughts.

In haste, but GOD NO, please don't feel I'm accusing you of being harsh or criticising you for understandable feelings of anger and frustration and hurt and disappointment and confusion and everything else. The fury/compassion confliction is entirely understandable... And fury often wins.

Thanks for understanding, boudoiricca. Fury was definitely winning yesterday. How are you getting on in your situation, presumably with a partner/husband who has bipolar?

I think it's entirely understandable that you are angry - it's a shitty situation.

It's worth noting that whatever is going on with your XP, he's not doing it on purpose.

I think it would be very sensible of you to keep some distance until he is more stable. You could, even, use the excuse of your anger, and the fact you don't want to inflict it on him, as a reason to keep some distance, tbh.

living with a bipolar partner is very tough. It is not always possible to see where the bipolar ends and just general shitty behaviour begins in my experience. dh is bipolar, it is a rollercoaster ride.

I was diagnosed as bi-polar about 15 years ago

It is crap, and you do have very little control over things like spending (which I think you need to address, particularly if he is in charge of your business - can you take away his control of the money side of things?), but you DO have control over the treatment you receive - I found that the medications made me a lot worse, because their side-effects made me totally bonkers! What helped me was 2 years of intense psychotherapy with a therapist who was right for me - calm, understanding etc. I saw a lot of counsellors (9 I think?!) before I found one that was right. But I knew it was the right way, and better than the medication approach, which is really grim and puts you in the hands of whoever is prescribing.

Anyway, this is all just my experience/opinion. But I am 'normal' again now after putting a lot of work into therapy. I am a firm believer that people can change.

"Emotional Rollercoaster" ride is a phrase I seem to read everywhere about bi-polar relationships moopymoo... But inspiring to hear morningpaper's story. I want to believe that people can change too...

yes dh has changed Loads. medication and counselling have helped a lot. It has taken nearly 7 years together to get to a place where it works well for us all. the tough times are now far outweighed by the great times. Though it is still a nightmare for all of us sometimes.
It took dh accepting that he was never going to be totally free of bp and that he had to find a way of living with it rather than fighting it to make a big breakthrough. And I have often felt like I was going mad myself and that things were alright really and that I was making a big fuss over nothing. Then the bear comes out of the cage..

That's good to hear moopy. I think acceptance and finding a way to live with it must be key - and guess that just takes time... (sorry, Twoddle, am hijacking your thread)

NQC - compassionate advice. Thanks. You are right that XP probably isn't doing things on purpose; I overheard him say to a mutual friend tonight that, although he knows he hurt people 12 months ago, he truly never meant to. I need to keep reminding myself of that when I feel exasperated.

moopy - I can relate to not always being able to differentiate between what might be bipolar and, as you call it, general shittiness. A rollercoaster ride is precisely what we have been - and continue to be - on. And that feeling that hey, wait a minute, maybe it's me losing the plot here - it's bewildering. moopy, it sounds as though you and your DH and family have finally found balance with bipolar; acknowledgement and acceptance of the problem, and then taking responsibility for it, seem key to effective treatment. This must be a relief for all of you, to have got to this place. If, indeed, XP does have bipolar, he hasn't reached this point yet.

morningpaper, thanks for sharing your experience from the opposite perspective. From what I understand, although all bipolar info seems to talk about meds being the cornerstone of treatment, they're not all that - but maybe it's simply a case of different treatments working for different people. Your conquering bipolar is really heartening; it's not something one reads often. As I said earlier in the thread, psychotherapy (well, psychoanalysis - are they very different?) was recommended by one psychiatrist (non-NHS, off the record). He felt it would address the underlying identity issues, and tendency towards depression and towards resisting it through mania, that he believes XP may have. It sounds as though therapy can really work as an alternative ... if you keep plugging away at finding a good 'n'!

The business will likely have to be closed, morningpaper, and a stable and experienced relative is helping XP with this. We're all just praying that mania doesn't kick in before XP finishes closing the business: I need my share of the money out and in safer hands ASAP, for mine and DS's security and my sanity.

I really appreciate you all posting on this thread. It's been ever so helpful. My way forward, then, is maintaining healthy distance insofaras our "relationship" is/was concerned, but offering compassion and support in the meantime, and co-parenting amicably. Although the familiar does sometimes lead me to think yes, let's just go for it, I know that to be fair to me and DS, I need to see XP getting to the bottom of these moods, managing them (if there is bipolar to manage) and taking real responsibility for them, and finding some kind of balance like morningpaper or moopy's DH have - before reconciliation can be considered. The bipolar dimension alone doesn't scare me off, but it potentially being there but not being diagnosed nor treated, does.

Thanks again, ladies.

Well, XP saw his psychiatrist this morning, and told him how he'd been feeling low, finding it hard to get out of bed, etc. The psychiatrist as good as said that he didn't think XP has bipolar disorder, and that closing a business and feeling remorseful and regretful over ending a relationship would understandably lead one to feel low. That makes sense, taken in isolation.

But how he explains XP's two "highs" - the purchasing of sports cars, the sexual promiscuity, the speeding (and court hearing), the setting up of several new businesses (which are now being wrapped up), the energy, the ability to function on minimal sleep, the writing down of ideas as they were coming so fast ... the very fact that XP's highs meet all the DSM-IV's diagnostic criteria for a (possibly hypo-) manic episode - I don't know.

I don't want for/insist that XP be labelled with bipolar for my own sake, but for a psychiatrist to write it off altogether, given the information he has about XP's moods over the past few years, I don't know; I find that a bit astounding, TBH.

Anyhow, XP and I have had a good chat about it this morning. He's a bit unsure too. But the support is still there for a year or so, with three-monthly appointments. I don't know quite where to go from here - although I shared your uplifting story with XP, morningpaper, and said if he ever wished, he could pursue therapy off his own back and seek help that way.

As for our relationship, I think my overriding feeling is a fear of XP possibly going high again, down the line, and with no diagnosis/treatment, there being nothing being in place to prevent this. I think we just need to continue as co-parents and friends for now, and see what unfolds over time.

Grateful for all your posts on this thread, and for the opportunity to share here.

Oh, Twoddle, I've just briefly read your thread and I'm so on your behalf. My dad developed bipolar disorder about 8 years ago and it was incredibly difficult to get anyone to recognise or diagnose it. I didn't know much about bipolar then, but it was blindingly obvious that something was terribly wrong. Looking back, the symptoms of biopolar were clearly there. Several GP appointments resulted in statements like 'well I'm not seeing signs of mania' and he was just left to carry on fucking up his life. In the end we got him an appointment to be assessed at a hospital clinic, at which they decided he needed to be sectioned. He actually went in 'voluntarily' but he was hopspitalised for many weeks and the whole experience was traumatic for the whole family. He has since had one other episode requiring a hospital stay but I am happy to say that for the last few years his condition has been very well controlled and I've got my dad back.

If your XP has seen a psych and not been diagnosed, I find that truly shocking. I think you need to ask for a second opinion from another doc. I understand that you don't want him 'labelled' and as morningpaper says there are alternatives to drug therapy (although my dad is fine on medication).

The really horrible thing about bipolar is the way that it robs people of their personality. In my dad's case it turned him into a total twat - so you're then battling with the guilt of feeling like you hate him and feeling so sorry for him because it's not his fault.

Please keep plugging away. I wish you good luck - I'm afraid you're going to need it. x

dearprudence - so sorry to hear what your dad, and you and your family, have been through on account of bipolar. How painful for you all.

XP has had a second (well, first) opinion from another psychiatrist, a prviate one, who he saw in the late summer. This guy said "bipolar" straight away, no question - but XP had major reservations about him and his practice, which (from what XP has said about this guy) I understand. It does rather feel like we are all waiting for the next high - or for the low to become more severe - and then we/they will jump in and deal with it in a crisis management kind of fashion. I think, given XP's history (which I documented in reasonable detail at the time, as I could see that it could be of use down the line), it's surprising that the psychiatrist has written bipolar off. But he's still monitoring XP, which is a positive.

The bit you said about your dad being robbed of his personality, and bipolar making him behave like a complete twat - I can relate to both of these. XP has lost such a lot of respect among family, friends and people he knows professionally - it's immensely sad, really.

I'll see what XP thinks about getting a third opinion and also about informally diagnosing himself (someone told me a psychiatrist will only check off against the DSM-IV anyway) - if he does decide to do the latter, at least he can go about seeing someone privately, as morningpaper did, and do something.

I realise, not being a couple anymore/at the moment, that I don't have to bother with any of this stuff - but I think that if bipolar was central to why XP and I parted, and given the effects it may have on his mood in future in relation to his capacity to look after DS, I am still involved to a degree - at least for now - whether I want to be or not.

Argh, I've got to go, but ramble aside, just wanted to say thanks, dearprudence, for your empathic post. Great to hear that your dad is "back"; that must be such a relief and a joy.