How did you decide how many children to have when you can't agree?

[colie]

We never really had this discussion before we married 18 years ago!

Our first child was conceived after 11 years of ttc via ivf. I then went on to fall pregnant naturally a couple of years later. Decided again contraception as thought, well it took 14 years to fall pregnant. Needless to say fell pregnant again a year later.

We now have 3 lovely little girls. He got the snip in Feb but I found out I was pregnant again a few weeks ago. The night we found I was pregnant, he told me that he hadn't actually got the results back from the samples he sent in after the snip.

he also told me he woudl like me to terminate the pregnancy. I had just went back to college to finish a course I started. He felt he couldn't cope with another baby. It was a shock to us, we were not expecting to have another baby. I told him I couldn't terminate and he said he could understand the decision as it was my body. I was upset at his reaction but I couldn't terminate.

I lost the baby last friday at 6 weeks pregnant. He told me yesterday he is having a phone consultation with his gp today about how he can get a vasectomy again or what he has to do to get a vasectomy to actually work. Oh it turns out there are some sperm still in his samples.

He is adamant he does not want another baby I am still upset at the miscarriage and feel that I would like us to try for another baby. He will not back down on this and says no way will he have another one.

Please tell me if you think I am being selfish. There really is no comprimise in this type of situation is there?

I have tried asking him to give me time etc. but we are both in our late 30's and don't really have time on our side.

How do you decide when to stop having children and how to reach a decision you's are both happy with.

Poor you, very sorry about the miscarriage.

It's a difficult situation. You agreed to the vasectomy before you knew about this pregnancy, so why do you think you have you changed your mind now?

You're not being selfish. It's difficult because you are still hurting from losing this baby. Do you really want another baby or did you want THAT baby? You have said that age is not on your side and you've had fertility problems in the past and you've just suffered a miscarriage also. How would you feel if you didn't become pregnant again? Would you go as far as IVF again if you couldn't conceive? I think it's important that you work out how much you do want another, and for what reasons. You obviously felt your family was complete when DH went for the vasectomy.

On the other hand, the last pregnancy was your DH's fault. If he knew he hadn't done the sample he knew there was a chance you might get pregnant. There must have been part of him that didn't consider it a problem if it happened.

There is no compromise, and one of you has to give. I think it's important that you talk about the vasectomy - both why DH didn't have the test, and why you agreed to it.

TinselianAstra -

Dh has said this as well. I didn't really agree to him getting it. When I was pregnant for the third time he told me he was getting the snip. I asked him to at least wait until the baby was born. I also told him I would rather he didn't get the snip but he has clearly forgotton this.

He has always done most of the getting up during the night with the babies and I felt because of that, he really had most say on whether we had another one or not.

Now I feel different, it is not because I want to replace the baby I lost but because it made me see that another baby would be such a blessing.

Although I know I am blessed as have 3 gorgeous little girls so I have so much to be thankful for.

gagamama - thanks for the advice.

There was a backlog at the clinic with the results. Both of us thought vasectomy's were 99.7% successful so really thought the odds were non existent on a pregnancy happening.

He did lie though, he told me a couple of months ago that the clinic had told him over the phone that the second sample was all clear.

Think you have hit the nail on the head, one of us has to give, know it will be me again! This builds resentment then the miscarriage becomes a whole other issue and I am worried about that.

Bumping for actual advice. I can only agree with gagamama that you have to talk about all of it.

If he lied and said the sample had come through then surely he knew there was a risk. Why would he do that if he is so definitely anti another baby?

I am sorry, how awful for you.

Still, both partners should want a baby. Despite evrything, you have no "right to a baby".

I guess his way of coping is very different from yours...

Hope you´ll be o.k.

Thanks ladies.

Chandon- I hadn't thought of it like that. You are right, I don't have a right to a baby and we should both want it.

I can see why you are upset . I guess someone has to be the one to give in. We have 3 and DH is adamant there will be no more. He was booked for the snip after the last one and I persuaded him to cancel it, as I felt it was such a final thing, even though atm I don't think I'll want any more. If I ever did, I know I'd be in a similar situation to you- DH just wouldn't even want to discuss it, and I'd probably be the one to give in, as I wouldn't want to have a baby that he didn't want, iyswim. It's a tough one, though

Joolyjoolyjoo- I know it is totally wrong of me to want him to have a baby when he clearly doesn't want another one.

I had hoped he would love me enough to say "if it makes you happy then lets have another baby". I know this is daft as I am talking about another life not a diamond ring or something. He has every right to want his happiness as well.

He knew that I didn;t want anything as final as the snip when he got it done but he still went ahead.

I am really putting myself off him now, didn't mind him yesterday and now really can't stand him

I just want to echo chandon's comment about not having a right to a baby BUT that doesn't stop you wanting one.

You've spent so many years trying for a baby or being pregnant or having a newborn around and its VERY hard to let that go (I'm trying to come to terms with this myself now). However, someone said on another thread that many/most women spend much of the reproductively viable part of their lives wanting babies - its a hormonal thing, its what we're built to do. That doesn't mean we should or have a right to be constantly delivering babies.

I think you need to try a separate out the grief from the miscarriage and the decision to have another child in your own mind. Would it really be the best thing for you and your family or do you just 'want' one?

Over the last 7 years I have been almost permanently pregant, miscarrying (7 in all), ttc or with a new born around. So know something of what you've been through. For all that we have 2 gorgeous boys. I want another, DH doesn't, and I have had to accept that as reality - doesn't change how I feel, its just how it is. He is now swaying which makes it especially difficult for me as it gives me new hope.

I'm not sure this is an issue you can compromise on when you want different things, but you can set it in persepctive. Does your desire for a baby outweight your love and respect for your DH and the life you have as a family? Could you stand to lose all that to pursue other avenues of 'getting' a baby? To me it boiled down the the fact that a child should be wanted by BOTH parents so that was my decision made. As I said it doesn't change how I feel but I can live with myself knowing how lucky I am to have my family.

Pheebe - Sorry to hear about your loss's.

Your advice is very sensible.

You are right about the longing for another baby most my reproductive days. I will get over this. I just wish he could have given me a bit more time before he started talking the vasectomy talk again.

I am trying to remember that up until the v word was mentioned again I did love him, well some of the time

I think it's a shame that he went ahead with the vasectomy before you had agreed to it. That said, I think, in principle, a couple should not have a child unless they both want to.
I hope things work out for you and your family.

MsHighwater-thanks.

sorry about the m/c - big hugs.
really agree with what Pheebe said, absolutely correct and I agree on her rational thinking. However like you I sway between loving my wonderful husband to seething and almost loathing , if not him, then his refusal to agree to another baby.
I do sympathise , it is one of those situations in life where there is no possible compromise. One person has to "have it their way " as it were - I dont believe a couple should have a child unless they both want it - therefore we go down DHs preferred route.
My coping mechanism is to count my blessings each day as I look at my darling daughter, and remind myself that as she is the only one it makes her even more precious ..
Take care xx

Babbi-I know I cope the same way only of course counting my blessings for mine.

There seems to be alot of women who would like more children but dh's don't. I know of a few at my dd1's school who say the same thing.

I don't want anymore children with him if he feels this way. He said a few things that were hard to hear on the night we discovered I was pregnant.

He said now that dd3 is here he loves her and could never be without her, but if I had wanted an abortion when i was pregnant with her he would have been more than happy with that. I know he was being honest with me that night but there are just some things that should never be said, because words hurt and you can't take them back.

Everyone's advice about only having a child if you both want one is so true, otherwise conversations like above occur and they are not easily forgotton.

Thanks for advice everyone.

Colie, I think perhaps you need to try and find it in your heart to forgive your DH for what he's said and done. At the end of the day its YOU this is going to eat up inside if you allow this resentment to fester. It sounds to me that your DH was being honest with you however awful what he said was. Honesty is something that should be cherished in a relationship, when that goes everything else soon follows imo.

My DH said some pretty harsh things to me too when we were trying to conceive ds2 and when I got pregnant. He was very sceptical about even trying mainly because he saw how I suffered through all the mcs and was tired by the constant emotional roller coaster. He wanted a 'normal' life and a 'normal' (and well) wife. It hurt immensely at the time and I thought he was being incredibly selfish but with hindsight I forgive and understand him completely and actually his honesty has made us closer and stronger as a couple.