Can we do this for the rest of our lives?

[OrmIrian]

Sorry this is so long. It's a sort of brain dump I think...

DH's parents split when he was 4, his sisters were 3 and 6. FIL just walked out and the next 10 yrs or so was completely erratic and unreliable in his contact with the children. MIL lied to the children, saying daddy was working away. Didn't help when FIL came back for the odd weekend and slept in the marital bed . MIL still hoped he would come back for good. After 10 yrs FIL found another woman, and settled down with her. At which point he magically became available for his children but they had to come to terms with the fact that he actually wasn't coming back. Anyway the final result is 3 fed up kids who are still fed up to a greater or lesser extent today. DH being no exception. Perhaps worse for him as he was a boy and needed his dad even more?

DH and I have been together for years and years. I am expecting my long-service medal any day now. When we first together we were emotionally very close, very supportive. We spent time doing things apart but emotionally we were an unbreakable unit. That continued for many years. Then FIL got sick. Cancer. He recovered. Then 3 yrs later he got sick again and this time it was terminal. At the time DH was half-way through a BEd for which we were both making a lot of financial sacrifices. DH basically went off the rails. I never knew were he was. He missed lectures and tutorials. He was working at the weekends and in the holidays ? he began to go to the pub after work and not come back for days. I fell pregnant with baby #1. DH got a grip was very excited about the baby. 6 months later FIL died and all the crap started again. When DS was born DH came back to me briefly but after a few months he was back to being unreliable, irritable, tearful - grieving. Basically I was more or less single for about 18m. Emotionally and for all practical purposes. I did my best to support him but I was working full-time and pregnant, then had a new baby to look after. So I admit I might not have been all that patient.. My heart broke for him but I was coping with all kinds of hassles, money worries, new baby, back to work full-time. Meanwhile DH had graduated with a 2:2 instead of the first he had been told to expect in his second year. And didn't go into teaching. He had counselling and took prozac for a period. He swore it didn't help. I could see it did. But he stopped both. Later he admitted that he didn't want to stop grieving, he didn't want to change, as he felt it was dismissing his father.

We've spoken about all this many times. I have told him I felt abandoned. He told me that he felt I didn't care. We've both explained and apologised. In theory it's all behind us. But I can't help the horrible creeping realisation the it isn't. From his POV. Time and time again he rejects any demands for emotional support. I have been a bit worried about my father recently - he's getting very vague and distinctly odd so I worry about dementia. My granny had that badly at the end. I mentioned this to my DH once and was crying - he replied 'FFS at least your dad is still alive!'. On the 2 occasions I've been given ads to cope with depression/anxiety he is always dismissive - 'What are you depressed about?'. Worries about work, the children, money are always treated as some kind of stupid irrational fear that needs to be suppressed. I rarely cry now in front of him as it makes him so irritated. Last night I was telling him that I think one of DS#1's rats has a tumour and was worried about her. 'FGS it's just a bloody rat?. Yes, I know it's just a bloody rat, what's that got to do with it?

And I get jealous sometimes. I want to yell -I've been with you for years longer than your feckless, useless, selfish bloody father. I've supported you emotionally, practically, financially more than he ever did. I gave you three beautiful children. But you still love your dead father more than me!' Of course he doesn't really but it feels that way sometimes - he will still cry his heart out over photos, and watching certain films. I honestly feel that if I walked out tomorrow it wouldn't make him cry, he'd just be angry and resentful.

We potter along OK, I'm fond of him, I think he's a good man, I enjoy his company, he makes me laugh but god forbid I make any 'irrational' emotional demands. So I've learned not to. But surely marriage means sharing worried and fears? I'd get more of a sympathetic audience from my DC TBH. It's as if we are skating along quite happily on the surface but never dare approach thin ice.

Can we do this forever? I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest. And I guess I feel a bit guilty too. But I wonder if things still need to be explored

Maybe his sister can get the ball rolling though - if nothing else to plant the seed in his head that he has got to change if he doesn't want to lose you too. It's a nightmare situation and I think whatever progress you make with DH you would really benefit from talking it through with someone - can you go to your GP and ask to be referred for counselling? At least then in the time it takes you to crack away at DH you will feel like you're doing something and getting regular support.

Orm

Your op resonates with me. My dh father was physically abusive and hateful to dh and not to his dd. He left mil and lives inthe family house with his girlfriend of 19 years but remains married to mil. My mil complicates issues by being very controlling of dh and wanting him to get her back together with fil. But fil doesn't give a shit and is ill. Slightly different childhood experience but not good at the same time.

I too find dh very non interested in my emotional needs and he's very confused about his relationship with dh.

I empathise and am in my 40s with a toddler and wonder whether I get anything out of it while sympathising with dhs issues.

Don't have much constructive to say other than I think counselling for you is the way to go - you are not responsible for your dh's upbringing I'm afraid and if he is totally unable to empathise with you it means your emotional needs are not being met. He needs to take responsibility for his upbringing and get help where he needs it - if he refuses and expects you to bear the brunt that's unfair. Also unfair on your kids. My dh has one reason in life and that's to make mil happy although she never did a thing for dh - put all her resources into her daughter instead. My dh is very confused and that causes him to focus solely on mil and fil - whom he hates with a vengances. He's a very confused man. But I've taken the decision (and I've posted many times about my problems) that I need to get my feelings back and ensure that me and my ds are OK. What I cannot solve for other people I cannot be responsible for.

You sound like a lovely and loving person. Ensure you look after yourself as well.

A lot of the problems your DH has I think I've had and while my heart goes out to you, I understand why your DH is the way he is. I had a feckless, unreliable father who left when I was young - my mother died when I was a teenager and I then had quite a close relationship with DF until he died. And sometimes the grief is so overwhelming that other people's problems just seem so bloody trivial. I have to confess that when DH has fretted or moaned about his parents the first thought that has entered my head sometimes is "at least they're alive". When one of them is ill, I've thought "at least it's not terminal cancer".

The big difference is that while I think these things sometimes I don't say them - I can see they're irrational and unjust and the fact my parents are dead is irrelevant to the quite valid concerns re PIL, so I keep quiet and try to be supportive. And I realise also that I should spend more time counting my current blessings than regretting the past, but it's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking you have the monopoly on misery.

Your DH doesn't have the ability to rationalise what he's been through and to look at the positives in his life - at the moment. He badly needs some bereavement counselling, and you must do everything in your power to get him there. Could you show him your OP? In the meantime your priority has to be yourself - you've had such a hard time and are carrying the full load yourself; you're absolutely right that a marriage should mean sharing worries and fears.

tryingherbest - that does sound familiar except that I can't fault MIL. She has coped amazingly with the shite FIL threw at her. Her children should be proud of her but they aren't.

Thanks hassled.

That's interesting to read. I am sure the the onus has to be on counselling for my DH. He's the one who is really suffering. I am going to speak to the wife of his closest friend - they would certainly help me out with encouraging DH to try counselling. Not sure he'll be persuadable but it's worth a go.

BTW I'd like to ask DH if he feels as you do. If everything else seems trivial in comparison. Not to needle him, just because I'm curious. But not sure of his reponse atm.

That's a good step forward - he might need to hear it from more than one avenue and more than once to get the message that this really does need confronting.

I wonder if your H is mourning not just the loss of his father, but the whole role he should have played for him as a child, so his ''inner-child'' is grieving, and whilst as an adult we might think we should be able to rationalise this, in truth the hurt is too great.
So much of our lives is based on looking back to the past and when you do that and so much of it is uncomfortable, it also unsettles the present.

I agree mou. My memories of a very happy childhood and supportive parents are the foundation of everything I do now. They still are supportive. I'd be lost without them. I can't imagine a life without that sort of start. He has all my sympathies - honestly - but it's just so hard to deal with. And I can that sometimes it affects the way he deals with the children too. Very strict on DS#1, doesn't make allowances at all.

And it's not news that hurt gets passed down the generations . But I'm buggered if I'm going to allow DH's bad experience to have more impact on my children than my good one.

...sounds like my H, But this is your thread. And my H had a pretty charmed upbringing. Grrrrrr.
You have a brilliant attitude to life, even if it is not easy for you.

Thanks mou.

I'll look for your thread now.

Orm, how is he when dealing with your childrens emotional needs? Can he comfort them when necessary? eg if they fall over, worry about not being popular at school? Or indeed worrying about the poorly rat? (Sorry dont know what ages your children are)
I am basically curious if his feelings are the only feelings he sees as valid? Can he empathise with friends when they have "things" going on?
Or is nothing in the world quite as bad as his situation, (albeit in his opinion)

Orm, it is under name lostatsea.

Children - sometimes. He calls me on being to harsh, or not listening sometimes. But does the same thing himself and gets very cross if I mention it to him.

eg, he was ticking DD and she got fed up and shouted at him to stop. He didn't. She pulled away and left the room in a strop. Later they were having a play fight and she kicked him after he'd told her to stop - OK a kick worse than tickling but the principle remains. He was furious with me for daring to point that out when he bellowed at DD He is always trying to draw distinctions between us (as the adults) and them (the children). He seems to think we have rights to certain things that they don't. I hate that - not the way I was raised. The whole family is a unit - no them and us.

Friends - close friends he can be sympathetic too and will go the extra mile to help and be a good friend. But generally he doesn't take anyone else's problems too seriously. Unless it involved dad/son things. And as for sympathising with strangers - not a hope.

OK mou. I think I found the wrong one.

Quick update:

Dh and I actually went out for a meal on Tuesday. Mum sometimes sits for us for an hour or so. Had a long talk. Mostly about DH and his dad and the 'issues'. DH thinks he's completely over it all. He admits it's left it's mark but he's recovered. I told him I didn't think he had entirely. We agreed to differ . Very matter of fact conversation really. But if he's over it what is his excuse for being so emotionally unsupportive? His whole tone and attitude was quite cold and distant. He makes it so hard to care.

Maybe it's just the way it has to be - been together so long. Hope not.

I don't think it's the way it has to be. You have one life, and your marriage should be the one light that always burns strong, no matter how much crap you have to deal with in terms of work, money,kids,other relationships.

Did you suggest counselling?

Yes I did mumble. But not in a heavy-handed way, just asked if he thought he might benefit from it. He just shrugged it off. He really doesn't think he still has a problem.

I asked him if he thought that this has made him more impatient and less tolerant - he said that was just down to getting older Maybe.

To be honest I think you deserve more than this, and if I were you I'd push for change - of one kind or another. I know relationships aren't all roses and soppy grins, but I don't think that he's 'as good as it gets' if you know what I mean. It takes two to make a relationship work, and by not modifying his behaviour or trying to be nicer to live with, it seems as if he's not really trying.

Don't abandon the idea of counseling. If you could get him to bloody GO, I think it would help him.

Or maybe try to get him to try something which doesn't involve a third party, for example meditation, or exercise which will help him to relax.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have tried to get him to do yoga with me, but he steadily resisted finding it laughable. Ditto meditation. He goes to the gym but turns it into a social thing by going with his friends.

Worst thing is that he doesn't do anything horrible enough to justify me giving him an ultimatum. And I dread the rows and upheaval.

Will try my friend this weekend. The one who is married to his best mate. She's really open to this sort of thing - counselling etc. But quite how we get round this roadblock of his insisting that nothing is wrong I don't know.

I think though you need to tell him exactly how you feel and that you are not prepared to put up with it.
He needs to realise there is a problem for him to get help - however much you think he needs it - until he does nothing will work.

It is effecting you more than him so it is you that will have to change and that may mean spelling out to him exactly what you want to change and what will happen if they dont.

Sorry that sounds harsh but if he feels he hasnt got a problem why would he want to change?

There's problem if YOU are unhappy with the situation.

I'm feeling a bit similar. There seems to have been some sort of distance and lack of emotional interaction/support over the last few years and I think it's largely due to dd coming along. Not only the tendency to focus on her - but also that we now live such different, parallel lives. I feel as though I almost live alone and 'that' part of my life is over.

I have mentioned soemthing occaisionally but I think I'm not really getting through strongly enough! I think some of it is just time, life stresses - a natural dullness seems to set in.

He needs to feel that your unhappiness is a problem. And I guess I need to do the same.

Yes, that is quite right acinonyx. But how to do that is the issue. Over the years we have had big disagreements and massive rows but we've made up afterwards. Now when we argue it's much more nasty and it just gets left. We stop arguing and move on. No apologies or explanations. And it's horrible. Like banging your thumb with a hammer - given the choice you don't do it again