PTSD after traumatic birth led to loss of a friendship... what to do?

[Jacksmama]

Hello all,
I just stumbled upon mumsnet this week while searching for info about vaginoplasty - found some very helpful posts on this site, and thought I'd ask for some advice or opinions. I had my wonderful baby boy this past February, he's now 8 months old and thriving, but his birth was very hard on me and incredibly traumatic. Here's the short version: asynclitic presentation, 36 hours of labour total, with over 4 hours of pushing, and eventually they had to take me to the operating room and yank him out with forceps. If that hadn't worked they were going to have to do an emergency C-section. I tore very badly, had to have over 100 stitches, went into shock and needed a transfusion after. I had no sensation of my baby leaving my body - I feel like I missed the moment of his birth, and of course I missed the first few hours of his life because I was in the recovery suite. To say the least, there was gross mismanagement of my case. The recovery was pretty bad (pain, infection, mastitis...), and weeks and months after I found myself reliving my baby's birth and breaking down in tears several times a day, or having anxiety attacks, or being afraid to leave my house... all the typical signs of PTSD. I eventually saw a wonderful psychotherapist and had some help from my family doctor who prescribed anti-anxiety medication. She also referred me to a specialist to have my insides evaluated (possible bladder prolapse, painful intercourse, etc)... which is why I was looking up vaginoplasty on this site! But I digress... the thing that was most frustrating (until I got help from my therapist) was that friends and to some extent family didn't seem to understand why I was having problems. I got a lot of "but your baby is perfectly healthy, focus on that", or "well, it's all over now, no point in dwelling on it", etc. Essentially everyone seemed to wish I'd just stop talking about it and get over it. I can't tell you how stupid and helpless that made me feel. If I could have just gotten over it, don't they think I would have? How much fun do people think anxiety attacks are? Do they think I liked feeling afraid every day? But to (finally, grin) get to the point: all this trauma has led to the loss of a friendship, and I don't know what to do. I was talking to the woman I used to think of as my best friend, and it happened to be a very bad day, and I was in tears again, railing against my midwife and how her idiocy could have threatened my life and the baby's. And my friend said, out of the blue, "what would happen to the baby if you died?" Which caused me to completely break down, hyperventilate, the whole stupid nine yards, because her question, of course, touched upon one of my worst fears. Somehow, the point she was trying to make was that even if I had died, the baby would still be ok and loved and looked after. I can't say I understand the reasoning, but she claims she meant it as a comfort. Sadly, it sent me into an emotional tailspin for days. When we finally talked about it after, she did say that perhaps it would have been better to just listen and say "I'm sorry you're having such a hard time" (I personally think that would have been a good response) but that she felt I needed some tough love, and that I needed to get over it, because her daughter-in-law's baby died during its birth, and her daughter-in-law would have gone through what I did a hundred times over to have my result. Let me add that I was twenty weeks pregnant when this tragedy happened, and that I drove over 150 miles at breakneck speed to be with her... because that's what friends do, I thought. So now what? We did have it out, and I think she knows how I feel, but she just broke my heart with that thoughtlessly cruel question, and I don't know what to do. A part of me does not want to give up the friendship, but neither do I want to talk to her or feel like I can trust her with any vulnerability. Am I being ridiculous? I know that because I'm still a bit emotionally screwed up, my responses to things aren't always healthy, but I can't seem to bring myself to make contact with her beyond forwarding the occasinal email joke. Has anyone got any advice?

I am sorry you had such a hard time.
I had a similar experience, 36 hours labour, a few hours of pushing, lost lots of blood, baby yanked out, 2 failed attempts with the ventouse, and 2 attempts with foreceps. I was in a bad shape after. (But no other trauma than bloodloss and a multitude of stitches)

Many women experience hard births. And many need to talk about it after. But at the end of the day, you have to get over it, stop mulling over it and focus on your healthy baby. It is possibly not what you want to hear, but that is my opinion. It is YOUR brain, YOUR mind, you have to take control. It can be done.

I think that your friend tried at the best of her abilities. You have to bear in mind that she is mourning the loss of a grandchild. And to her, your problem may pale in comparison. YOU have a child at the end of a painful birth experience, her daughter in law, and her son, dont.

I think you are wise to maybe stay clear of your friend until you are less emotional about this. So in answer to your question "Am I being ridiculous" A little bit.

oh poor you. I really don't "get " her comment- what did she mean? Was she trying to shock you into "getting a grip" and saying you had a responsibility to your baby to cope and get well now?

There are friendships that don't continue for all kinds of reasons; you have to ask if you need her in your life now. Is she a lot older than you- you talk of her daughter in law which implies she is older than you are?
Do you need her in your life? what do you get out of the friendship? Does she help you in a practical way?

why are you afraid every day? what about?

You sound depressed- have you been assessed for PND?

It is time to move on- although the birth was awful for you, you need to stop looking back to the trauma, and you can have your insides fixed. would that make you feel better emotionally?

My personal view is that over-reacted to a strange comment- but only you can decide if it broke your friendship. You might be able to forgive her, but if you can't, then let the contact drop- and she will understand that she crossed a line that was too much for you.

Of course you felt trauma after the birth of your DS and I'm glad you've received help to deal with it.

However it sounds to me that the problem with the friendship is a case of you both having very serious issues which at that moment in time conflicted. She is mourning the loss of her grandchild and so to her things are as black and white as being grateful for having a baby whatever you've been through. It doesn't diminish your birth experience, it merely highlights how raw and upset she feels about the loss of her son and DIL's baby. There's no reason at all you can't maintain the friendship but accept that she is not currently the avenue for talking about your birth experience with. I hope that makes sense.

Oh Jacksmamna, it sounds like you have been having such a tough time. i think giving birth is a hugely emotional event even when its straight forward, so to you it must be even more so. I can totally understand how that time haunted your thoughts and made you feel so anxious. Becoming a mum does I think open up this whole new realm of emotions , because for the first tome you are completely responsible for another little life. My children are high school age and not being there for them is still my greatest fear ... so i understand how hard it is for you to have to contemplate that.
I think the loss of a baby affects everyone around the family, and i imagine your friend was grieving for the tragic loss of her grandchild. Maybe the fact you were both hurting made it hard for you to reach each other fully. I don't think you need to forget the birth and move on, but I can imagine it was hard for your friend when her grandchilds birth ended so differently to relate to your sadness. She probably has regrets too over your friendship.

I had an extremely difficult labour with my first baby felt all the same anxieties and regrets as you. I ended up with ptsd and horrible pnd. At the same time i had my baby my bf had hers she found it a breeze i found every comment she made irritating and i thought the whole world was out to get me, i became paranoid about everybody and really believed everybody thought i should just pull myself together. At the time i didn't realise how ill i was. I fell out with everybody and it wasn't until i went to a support group and met other mums with PND( ah what fun) that i realised i wasn't such a failure and started getting better.
The only advise i can give you is that your friends aren't out to hurt you there probably just worried about you and that time heals everything it does stop being such a big deal in your life eventually. You have to see it from your friends point of view in her opinion she would just be happy with a healthy baby so she really isn't the person you need to be supportive you need people who can empathise with you.

So sorry about your awful experience. Your friend is bereaved and you are traumatised. It's probably not a good combination as neither of you will be able to see beyond your own problems at the moment to support each other. So I'd say it was very unfortunate timing, but maybe you could try to see your friend's comment in the context of her bereavement - she'll be having some difficult feelings of her own. Hope you recover soon.

i think you need to concentrate on getting yourself better and to not read into other poeples comments so literal and personal

i knopw your having hard time and she is trying to be there but ask yourslef will anything anyone says at the moment be what you want to hear?

no one knows the right things to say as no one feels the way you do she is there thats the main thing trying to help you

its hard when someone is depressed to know what to say or do as usually its always wrong as thats the way your feeling so negative and down you need to work on that and appreciate sucha good friend being there and at least trying

she too is going through tough times and too will need a friend so try and be there for each other and if you dont want responses but want to off load say i just need to vent

but be each others friend really hope you feel better soon

Frankly complaining about birth trauma - when you have a living baby - to a grieving parent or grandparent is not appropriate. You should be looking elsewhere for support.

Sorry that was a bit abrupt but all she will be thinking is 'well your baby is alive' and when it comes down to it your baby is alive.

gosh, i am SO SORRY that you had such a terrible time, it sounds utterly horrific, but i'm afraid i agree with sadminster. you've obviously been very brave and focussed on your recovery but perhaps you weren't being kind in asking this person to empathise?

ouch!

Being aware of another family's pain doesn't lessen your own though, does it?

A living baby is what we all want- but we don't want our insides turned inside-out in the process. I had a repair after my 2nd birth and I know how demoralising it is to feel your body is not what it was- and my birth experiences were easy- the first one was just very fast.

I agree with the others who say that you two are not the best combination at the mo- you each have your own issues to deal with.

I can't begin to understand what you feel. But I do feel your friend was trying to help. She probably felt that she was trying to give you tough love and help you enjoy being a mother.

I hope you come to terms with the birth one day, and remember that if you were to ever have another you would be able to have an elective C section which would take some of the worry away.

Maybe what I've said hasn't helped but I had a bad labour too, I had 3 days of labour followed by emergency c section. I did feel incompetent and worried that I could have died.

I agree with what the others are saying.

I hope you're still seeing your psychotherapist and your DH is being supportive. You've been through something traumatic and although i don't think its wise to play the 'whose hurting more game'. You must realise that losing a child/grandchild is pretty much the worse thing that can happen to anyone (in my opinion).

I'd steer clear for a while until you feel a little emotionally stronger.

I would also like to add, that I think your friend possibly has the added emotional scenario where she has to support and comfort her son and her daughter in law who has lost a baby, on top of her own grief.

The two of you are simply not a good mix at the moment.

but tbh if she's apologised to you for her comment then i'm inclined to say that she's being very generous and you should apologise to her for not being hugely sensitive.

Jacksmama, I'm so sorry about what you have gone through. I thought my first birth was awful and a bit traumatising but it was nothing compared to yours.

I don't think you are being ridiculous at all, it's not like you WANT to feel traumatised and have anxiety attacks! It sounds like a mental illness not an attitude you chose to have. Simply being told to pull yourself together isn't going to cure you is it! It sounds like you need more therapy - and - this is a job for a qualified professional, NOT a grandmother who is grieving her lost grandchild! She is even less 'qualified' than a 'normal' person to help you because it will bring up extreme painful feelings for her because of what she has been through! It will be very hard for her to see past those feelings to be able to empathise with you. This is not her fault.

Don't put this expectation on her, it is too much. I think if you don't talk to her about it anymore your friendship will be ok. Maybe let her know that you have thought about it and realised it is too much to ask her to listen to you talking about it when it brings up difficult feelings for her and you will talk about it to other people instead. A therapist would be best because like you said I don't think 'normal' people know what to say about things like this and feel so uncomfortable that they might say the wrong thing that they would rather not talk about it.

I hope you get some relief soon.

have you had any help with your PTSD? there is specialised help out there

i have helped a number of women with birth trauma and i can see both sides of the coin here

for you it is totally overwhelming, life changing and almost intolerable pain

your friend is mourning the loss of a baby, an overwhelming, life changing and almost intolerable pain

you are not the right people to support each other

she is listening to you and thinking 'your baby is alive, how can that be worse than my grandbaby being dead?'

and she said that out loud

and i can;t say i blame her

you need to move forward and possibly need to accept that your friend needed you more than you needed her

and get some counselling or help from someone not connected, who can say and do the right and helpful things for you

and i sympathise and empathise so much with your birth story. i truly do

You're hurt. You've been through a terrible time, awful, and no-one deserves that. You've been robbed of many things you wanted and felt you deserved to experience. You've been physically and mentally scarred. It's not been nice to say the very least. I can totally get my hed round that and I feel for you, hugely.

Your friend has also been hurt. She hurts for herself, her DIL, everyone involved. That baby died during the birth. Can it rally ever get much worse than that? It frightens me so much, I feel sick at the thought. I can't get my head round that one at all or how you go about getting over something like that. Words can't express how I feel about that.

I'm a bit of a advocate for the tough love thing sometimes. And I think possibly if I had been your friend and my DIL had had her baby die while she gave birth to it, i think I might have said exactly the same thing. I really do. I think in a kind way I would have tried to point out that your baby was alive and that you should try and deal with everythign else that happened to you, as awful as that was, and as much as I wished it hadn't happened to you and try and make you see that how lucky you are.

Yes all things are relative. And this is the worst thing that has happened to you. But look at where she was coming from. I'm sure she had tonnes of sympathy for you, from day 1. But you've already said 'I was in tears again, so it's not like her response was the first thing she chose to say to to your first set of tears.

Anyway look, I don't mean to go on, and I'm so sorry for what you went through, it's not fair what happened to you, but please, please don't lose your friend over this.

This is when you need each other the most Address that with each other, acknowledge it, but let here be there for you and be there for her too.

Thank you all so much for your input, tough love, sympathy and all. It's all extremely helpful and I appreciate it.

Isn't it mad that I thought of you almost straight away this morning.

I hope you are ok, in regards to this thread, and I hope you get stronger and stonger emotionally and are able to somehow out your traumatic experience behind you andmove on.

I also hope your friend and her family get over their heartbreak (although I appreciate you can never truly get over something like that) and go onto to have a huge, happy, healthy family.

And I hope you 2 come through this as closer friends.

Thank you so much, thomcat, it's really sweet to know that on the other side of the world,a stranger is thinking of me. On reading my original post again this morning, I realize it is a bit misleading - I inadvertently made it sound as if this was all terribly immediate and I was still really struggling. BTW, yes, I was Dx'd with PTSD, PND and generalized anxiety disorder in the summer. That was a beautiful thing - I'd always thought of myself as a srong person who had her head together. Clearly not. Thanks to therapy and meds I've been feeling a lot better for almost two months now. And my friend's tragedy happened over a year ago (not that that makes it ANY better).I think a couple of mumsnetters nust have thought our issues were happening at the same time, in which case, yeah, I really would be a shallow cow to complain to a bereaved woman about a bad birth. On the other hand, in fairness to me, there were some people who thought it was inappropriate of her calling a pregnant friend to help her deal with her granddaughter's death. It scared the piss out of me for the rest of my pregnancy, for fear of the same thing happening to me. Anyway... it can be argued back and forth. Obviously we were both hurting, and while I didn't see it as a "who's hurting worse" game, maybe she did.
I think it's because I have been feeling better that I'm now thinking about this issue, fight, whatever you want to call it, and I find I still don't know how to deal with it and the aftermath of distance between us. But, as some have said, maybe distance is best for now. Like I said, I appreciate the different points of view. When you're stuck in the middle of the problem it can be hard to see any side but your own. It's tricky to get all the facts in one posting without making it the length of "War and Peace", so some of the advice/ opinions didn't really apply, but it's great of all of you to take the time and try to help.