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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A problem with my longstanding CHILDFREE friend. Need some perspective - sorry it is very long

47 replies

QuintessentialShadow · 02/09/2008 10:00

We were group of 4 girls, we have known eachother since primary school, and have grown up together in the same neighbourhood.
3 of us have two children each. Our single friend made a decision at the age of 18 that she should never be with a boy again and regretted the two (rather innocent) relationships she'd had alrady. She is a stritcly no wine, no boys kind of girl. We are 36.

We had a few years where we were not as close the four of us together, as we were in different classes in secondary and high school. We still hung out, but maybe more two and two, in any event, for the last 15 years we have met up regularly. Me not so much because I lived in London, but all four of us would arrange meetups when I was home, and I would for sure see my childfree friend.

It used to bother me a little that she is so unflexible regards to family life and children, but I did not see her often enough to really see the extent of it. Now that I live here, I can see it more clearly. She was always feuding with one of other girls, about the upbringing of her son, about her chosing to spend time with her husband and kids on the weekend, not having energy to go out in the evening, etc.

Being single and childfree, she has lots of good ideas for things we could do together, that did not suit the rest of us due to work, nursery/school pick up times, meals for the children. Such as rushing the kids from nursery to go for long walks to look at the snow and the moon, and why cook them a meal, can they not eat a sandwich while walking. Or, go to a picnic on the beach, at 7 pm, in the middle of the week, because that is when she has finnished work, and it suits her to meet up, and we should be more flexible because it doesnt hurt the kids to go to bed late. Of course she has no clue what it involves to rush the children out from nursery, home, change, prepare a picnic, get dressed again, and then go out.

We would be happy to all met up at somebodys home, cook a simple tea together and let the adults chat while the kids were playing together, usually in a playroom upstairs. Plenty of opportunity for adult conversation. But, she did not like this, as it was boring. We should get out more. What is the fun in having everyday food at home. So, it has become rather strained. We have tried to come with her on all these interesting outings, but after a long day in nursery/school, the kids are not really up for it, and we are knackered after work. Our friend finnishes work and the fun just starts.

So now, we try to meet up without the kids. And it is not that often we are all able to get our dhs to stay home with the kids on the same day, to meet up with her. But now the problem is, that the moment the conversation turns to the children, our childfree friend starts to sulk, as she cant contribute, and then she leaves.

At the beginning of the summer, just after I moved here, I rang her and asked if she had plans. SHe didnt. I asked her if she wanted to for a walk with me, the weather was lovely and my dh was putting the kids to sleep tonight, so I could come to hers and we could go from there. I was just about to leave when my dh got a work related call, the proverbial shit had hit the fan, and he to take his laptop off somewhere quiet and try sort a problem. I called my friend and told her this, and said dh would know within the next 20 minutes if the problem was solved and I could go, or if I had to stay in. She was rather curt, and said, ok call me then. When the 20 minutes were up, and my dh still had problems, and the kids were still awake, I called her and apologised profoundly but could not make it. She literally blew a fuse:

Did I realize I had ruined her entire evening? She had been sitting here doing nothing thinking she was meeting me, all the things she could have done if it wasnt for me. etc. And I had no respect for her whatsoever if I could do such a thing. I said to her "look, I am really sorry, I had no idea that would happen, I called you because I had a free evening, and wanted to meet you. "

I have not contacted her since, aside from a text on her birthday. A few days after that disastous non-walk, I met up with the other girls for a trek up the mountain after the kids bedtiem (our single friend had been invited but declined) They told me she had been on the phone to them rubbishing me and how terrible I was for not leaving the kids to fall asleep alone and unsupervised when I had made PLANS with her. (they are 6 and 3) And why was my dhs work problem more important than his wifes leisure??? I thought, in that case, better not to make plans with her, because I am not going to put myself through such stresses and being abused over the phone if something comes in between.

So, we met her for dinner at a friends house on saturday. Conversation was flowing until she put me on the spot saying "so, how are you, my friend who has cut herself out of my life" I was so shocked I did not know what to say, but conversation moved on so I just ingnored it. Our single friend went quiet, excused herself and left.

On the one hand, I can really do without all of this. On the other, she is just her. All she has is her friends. But, if we should be so flexible, what about her? She is expecting all sorts of flexibility from us, condemning us for not having a lacksadaisycal attitude, commenting on our parenting knowing better than us, because she has ANOTHER friend who hitchhiked throuogh Africa with a baby, and were putting herslef first, and so should we.

I know I should call her. I just dont know what to say.

OP posts:
TheCrackFox · 02/09/2008 10:26

She sounds like an idiot.

She chose to be childfree, but she has also chosen not to move her life on since she was 18. Her happiness is not your responsibility. She needs to make her own happiness and that means she perhaps needs to change jobs so she does have colleagues, find some childfree friends (there are plenty of women who chose not to have children) and perhaps have therapy to explore why she does not want a relationship.

Leave her too it, she sounds toxic.

mangolassi · 02/09/2008 10:26

Why did she decide to never have a relationship? if she's religious I can understand no sex before marriage (kind of... theoretically anyway!) but no relationship ever again? Did something happen?

Not that it's any of your responsibility in any case, I'm just being nosy

bellabelly · 02/09/2008 10:32

QS - it is a bit hurtful I think that she seems to be saying it's the going out rather than your company that she wants. I'd be quite miffed if I were you actually.

QuintessentialShadow · 02/09/2008 10:32

Yes something happened. Disastrous to a 17 year old, but not so bad from a grown up perspective. First she lent her boyfriend nearly 2 grand. He bought a second hand BMW. Never paid her back. His parents knew she lent him the money. When she eventually confided in her parents where the inheritance from aunty had gone, they went to see his parents, how laughed in their face. His father was a reputed surgeon. The next boyfriend cheated on her, and rubbed it in her face, and boased infront of all her friends. It put her off boys for life.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadow · 02/09/2008 10:33

I know bellababy. I could be anybody. It is not ME she wants to see. Just anybody to go to a coffee bar with.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadow · 02/09/2008 10:33

I have to go mind my father as my mum has to do an errand. He is ill. We are expcting the homenurses back with new meds. But thank you all so far.

OP posts:
Lazarou · 02/09/2008 10:34

Sounds like she needs to get laid, she might lighten up then

GooseyLoosey · 02/09/2008 10:36

Sounds like you get nothing at all out of this relationship - not even companionship and you are continuing it out of compassion and guilt. If you feel you have enough space in your life to do this, then I would carry on and make the running but accept that it is not a genuine friendship, it is you going out of your way to do something nice for someone who will probably never appreciate it or reciprocate it.

If your life is full enough, I would give up.

CarGirl · 02/09/2008 10:36

Perhap you could phone/text/write and point out to her tht you like spending time with her and don't mind where the venue is in order to do so. You feel hurt that the friendship is not reciprocated because she seems more interested in going out anywhere with someone rather than spending time with you. You also feel hurt that she has no interested in hearing anything about what is important in your life - your family wherease you always listen to what she wants to talk about.

She won't like it because that's seems to be the truth of the matter but not sure what else you can do

mangolassi · 02/09/2008 10:38

Disastrous to a 17 year old, but not so bad from a grown up perspective.

That's the thing though, isn't it? 'Grown up perspective' seems a bit lacking in her friendships as well. The phrase 'arrested development' springs to mind. It does sound like therapy would be good for her, but I don't think it's a suggestion she's likely to take kindly to! Again, not your responsibility

Do you want to be friends with her? If so, she needs to know that the kids come first, however much she dislikes the idea. If not, then you need to ease yourself out - don't bother calling, be pleasant when the 4 of you meet up, be busy if she wants to meet up with you alone.

mangolassi · 02/09/2008 10:40

Sorry about your father, hope the new meds do what they're supposed to

Weegiemum · 02/09/2008 10:42

I have quite a few single childless friends - I seem to collect them actually. And I have never come across this kind of attitude.

One of these great women that I am friends with struggles a lot with her childlessnes - she is now in her mid-forties and will probably never have her own children. So - if she is coming round (and she is very good at meeting me here - as they all are, actually) she will sometimes say "look, I'm struggling, do you mind if I wait till the children are in bed before I come?" and of course I don't. I make sure I don't talk about children all the time, but neither do I avoid the subject.

Most of the single women I know are active, involved in things, sociable, and enjoy us inviting them into our busy bustling family home as it is different. One of them says that the great thing is the cuddling - children just jump on you!

We do do grown up things together as well, like cinema or walks, or spontaneously going to the beach for a bag of chips if the weather is nice and dh is in etc ..... But your friend sounds like there are some very serious issues going on there, which you are not going to be able to help with. I feel for you, its not nice when someone doesn't appreciate what you are most proud of - your kids!

Bumperlicious · 02/09/2008 10:44

She sounds selfish and immature, if she wants to be part of your life she has to understand your life involves a family. She can't just expect you to pop into her life on her terms.

I think you have been nothing but reasonable QS, and she has not even tried to make any effort with you. If she wants to go out all the time she will have to bloody well make new friends, and stop hanging on to the past - in all respects.

teafortwo · 02/09/2008 10:52

qs I also am having problems with an old friend who is single - thinking about you - it is really horrible, isn't it?

UpSinceCrapOClock · 02/09/2008 10:52

I think it's a tough one but people are who they are and one person can't change another person's life so it's a case of either accepting it or not (and moving on). And that's what she has to do - you're a mum now and she either has to accept that and all that comes with it, or not. Her choice. I'd probably something along those lines.

Might be way out here, but I sort of get the feeling that you're friends with her because of your history together and because you feel a bit sorry for her due to her (self-)isolation? So can appreciate it's a tough one.

Hope your dad feels a bit better soon.

UpSinceCrapOClock · 02/09/2008 10:54

probably say something along those lines...

moopdaloop · 02/09/2008 10:58

do you like the relationship you have with her now? Becuase it doesn't sound like there's much to like. I f you are getting nothing out of your current relationship and haven't for years then you aren't friends really

piratecat · 02/09/2008 10:59

sounds like she is 'stuck' at 17 to me, and hasn't had many other life challenges, to shape her iyswim.

fortyplus · 02/09/2008 11:06

I am one of a group of five who went to school together. We do all have children but in some ways our lives are very different. Over the years I have kept very close to one friend who lives locally, seen a fair bit of two of the others and little of one.

Where is this leading, you ask? Well... about nine years ago (when youngest was 3) we started going away once a year for a long weekend. The DHs all come home in time to pick up the children on the Friday night and we reappear about 10pm on Sunday night.

We have a great time and laugh so much. Your single friend's life has moved on to the extent that your relationship is tense and unhappy. If you spent 3 days with her and the other 2 once a year, unencumbered by children, you'd have a whale of a time without all the 'issues'.

The only problem will be whether your friend can cope with being 'cut off' in this way.

MrsMattie · 02/09/2008 11:10

She sounds like a pain in the arse.

captainmummy · 02/09/2008 11:19

QS - you know what you have to do. You know that this person is NOT your friend. You owe her nothing. Get on with your life.

QuintessentialShadow · 02/09/2008 11:52

Thank you all so much for your insightful comments and taking the time to reply.

I am taking it all on board. She is not my responsibility, and at the moment I dont have the energy for this. It is fine to meet her with the others, but I wont contact her myself. I might bring it up with her when I have less on my plate. We will see. But for now, I shall just leave it. Thanks again.

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