think my relationship may be about to end ...due to lack of interest

[regularlyoverwhelmed]

looking for a bit of MN wisdom on this, although not sure what anyone can say- maybe it will help me just to write it all down

me and DH have been together 15 years, married for 7, we have two DDS DD1 is 6 DD2 is 3

I don't think either of us is terribly happy and I think he is possibly quite unhappy

I am on Anti-depressants and have been for about 12 months as this time last year all I could do was cry (well, apart from work and look after the kids that is - any spare time - I cried)

we are going to counselling at present but he doesn't want to talk about it outside the sessions so I don't know how he is finding that

basically the pattern of our relationship has been that he generally doesn't want to talk about it - I think he doesn't even want to think about it

we get on ok. we do have unpleasant rows but not so much since I've been on the ADS. Neither of us are violent or physically abusive. The kids don't like the rows but they don't happen much and are normally about things too banal to even articulate. Our eldest daughter's behaviour is very erratic which I think may be linked though.

we have sex a couple of times a month. He initiates it. I have a higher libido but got sick of being rebuffed so don't bother to initiate anymore. He is not spontaneously physical twoards me in any way. ALthough he does sometimes pucker up for a kiss when I get home from work.

We share the childcare approx 60:40 me:him as we both work. I do all finances. I do all sorting of childcare. I do all shopping and cleaning or organising of cleaning. He does most of the cooking, I gave up as he interfered too much. He likes to interfere in everything I do and will always tell me the right way to do things. To the extent I have stopped doing lots of things - well, mostly cooking, DIY etc. I have my hobbies which he doesn't interfere with. He doesn't try to control my friends, who I see or what I do outside in any way. Although he can be very dismissive of things/people.

He never wanted to get married and never wanted kids. I did. I said we should split up when it reached an impasse and we did. He came back and said let's do it. There was never much enthusiasm. He is a good dad, he loves them and minds them well. He gets very frsutrated though and does lose his temper often. Not in a scarey way but in a ranting about the house way. he says "Jesus Christ" in a loud voice a lot. I asked him to stop in our first counselling session and he tried but he is doing it again now. And I ask him again every time to stop.

He drinks too much, in an articulate middle class continental beer and wine drinking kind of way. He doesn't get unpleasantly drunk but drinks about 60-80 units a week. Presumably his lack of interest in sex is linked.

I would like not to drink much but end up drinking with him as it is all we do together. I don't drink nearly as much as him anymore though (i used to drink a lot before had kids) He hates going out on trips with the kids. We take them to the local park/swimming pool at a push. We sometimes take them to an art gallery.

I went to our counsellor on my own last week as he couldn't make it and everything poured out. She thought that the relationship was being run too much on his terms and that I might need to confront him. He didn't ask what happened at the session. Last night I said that maybe he should think about moving out for a bit in case he might be happier. He said he didn't know what he wanted and opened another bottle of wine.

I feel we are more like brother and sister (or mother and adolescent son) than man and wife.

I don't feel like a woman.

I think we may need to split. I think he will never push it but I think deep down he probably wants it. He is probably too kind (he is a kind man) and scared to face it. I am very frightened at the prospect too (have been a serial monogomist since about 15 yo - terrifying the prospect of no partner) but feel I am just having to molly coddle him along through everything at this stage. To the detriment of my own enjoyment of life.

I don't think I am going to read over this as if I do I'll probably not post it. I'm going to do some work now and try to stop thinking about this but would be very interested to hear if anyone else has found themselves in a similar situation and if so what you did/didn't do.

crossed posts bananafish - thanks for that post. Yes it does all seem overwhelming, but those questions you posed are interesting. There is plenty I still like about him. He is lovely in a million ways. He is just disengaged and detached. He probably always has been. I wasn't before but I think I am becoming so now, after years of living with him I've fairly given up on any other approach. The issue is probably more about whether there is stuff about me that he still likes, or whether he can be passionate about me at all...

I am not sure what to do about the counselling - I wnet on my own last time and the counsellor said I could come again alone if I wanted to try to work it out some more (which I obviously need to) or we could come together again and she could try to help us talk through some of the issues. Maybe I iwll go once more alone and try to sort my own desires out a bit more.

What did you do in the end? did it work out? feel free not to answer! splitting up certainly doesn't feel like the easiest answer

ps bananafish - did you stop drinking completely? I think I would like to do this, but it seems so drastic

No, drinking not good. My dp took himself off for a liver function test last year fearing he had done damage after a 20+ year history of drinking. It came back all clear and has given him carte blanche to continue (albeit slightly reduced). He has been lucky so far, though and maybe your dh should get one (if he hasnt already when he visited GP)as it could indicate early warning signs and may make him reconsider his intake.

oh god I know those visits to the GP that they return from with carte blanche to keep doing it - not sure if DH had liver function test, don't think so . Will suggest it. Bet his liver is perfect though as he drinks loads of milkthistle on a daily basis to minimise the hangovers

do you drink too unavailable? I do but not as much, have ended up drinking more than I want to over the summer though, every day. Want to stop that and get back to a couple of glasses of wine fri, sat and sun only.

argh it's all a bit too hard really

Yes I do and more than I should. Perhaps I should take my own advice about the liver function test. I know it doent help the situation, but it feels like a treat and something to look forward to. I feel quite frightened just typing this because it illustrates how empty my life seems at times, but giving up wine is a scary thought to me.

Alot of your post strikes home to me (apart from dh was quite happy about getting married and having dc) but the general 'getting on with things', drinking, he can look after the dd's but if I go out for the day they invariably end up at his parents etc etc

I am seeing Dr next week about 'me' as I feel I just cope and get on with childcare, household, bills, working etc and am starting to resent him (we have talked about him helping more, cutting down drinking etc etc) but truly don't feel happy just mediocre if that makes sense.

Made an appt with Dr for dd1 (shes turning 4 this weekend) as she sufferes with anxiety and her tantrums are beyond my limits but am wondering if teh atmosphere at home may be contributing (we tend to bicker/snap at each other and then leads to a huge row about once a month, mainly me monaing about his drinking and him moaning about me moaning!)

DH doesnt drink all week (drives for a living) but will binge at weekends which is why i get resentful as I know I'll be getting up with the dd's as he'll stay up till 1/2am watching shit on tv whilst drinking, like you his family always have wine with dinner and drink on tap there (although they will have 1 or 2 glasses a night where dh will save that up and drink a few beers and bottle of wine on friday night)

So no solutions but just to say I know how you are feeling

you and me both unavailable - maybe we should both take the liver function test - i'm really stupid too as my mum died of breast cancer and there are links between booze and BC. I was a heavy drink before having kids and although I seem light now it is only in comparision to DH!

eandh - thanks for that message - what you said about your 4yo struck a chord - my eldest is like that - she was in therapy for a while as she was talking about killing herself just before last summer. She is very intense and her tantrums are outrageous at times. She is 6. I wonder sometimes whther her tantrums are the result of issues in our relationship, the bickering etc (in fact it was mainly this that made me seek help last year and got me on the ADs, so the bickering has lessened a bit) or whether our relationship is worse because of the strain her tantrums can put on us. She doesn't have any mental health issues, is just highly strung and intense. Like her parents. Who have ended up totally detachd and drinking too much.

This isn't sweet is it, when you see it written down?

My dh asked the gp to refer him to 'someone' about his drinking, sounds similar to your dh. He was referred to the local authority addiction service he explained that the thought of never drinking again - being the bloke in the pub who has to explain why he's drinking orange juice was terrifying for him. He was then recommended to see an alcholol advisor who helped him over 10 session to cut down. This advisor was someone who'd been a 'proper' alcholic ie. on the streets and he was apparently great with dh. Gave him loads of tricks for how to cut down, how to still go for a drink after work without getting plastered etc etc.

Although dh's drinking can get heavy, he now recognises it and will talk to me about it and it is very rare. I would say he now drinks like a normal person ie. not every night. It can be done and there are services out there. Where do you live?

we are in London

that sounds great scanner - DH is also terrified of the prospect of never drinking again. And he is not the traditional has to have a drink first thing in the morning can never stop once he starts type - he just loves to drink. A lot usually. He can see it would be good to cut down but find s it really tough.

I will mention this to him. He resists the label of alcoholic as he doesn't see it like that, and he doesn't want to have to give up forever.

God that sounds just like dd1 shes highly strung and appears confident but is actually just a little girl who I think at times is just very confused as she has great nanny who is very poorly, one of her best mates parents (our friends) are divorcing so shes worried that she will have to be like her mate and live with Daddy at weekend and generally just worries and worries about the smallest things (am thinking Dr is going to suggest counselling/ad's for me and not sure about dd)

Another factor for us is that I don't drink at all, gave up when ttc dd1 and never went back to it so I suppose I look at him and think what a waste of money, time and effort just to drink

Like you said doesnt look that great written down does it

It was one of the main things that put dh off doing anything about it, until one day I stopped being understanding and supportive and blew up. Fortunately our relationship is very good, so when I went mad at him it frightened him and he knew he had to do something about it.

I also came across around that time, it might be of interest;

basic, but good

online course

Regularly overwhelmed, I can't offer any advice about the alcohol, but I just wanted to say that my dc4 used to whinge and moan and WET her knickers when I was still stuck in a miserable marriage to her father. I had thought (before I left) that if I stayed it would be better for her.

Not so, she has flourished since we left. I didn't realise 'til I left that I'd been taking for granted a tense gloomy atmosphere. We all have a spring in our steps again. If you're unhappy, leave. I took anti-Ds as well. I don't think I was clinically depressed though. I was ordinary miserable for circumstancial reasons.

I don't know why we're all so terrified of moving on, and reluctant to throwing in the towel and being single. It doesn't make life harder, it makes it easier.

All sounds v familiar so really feel for you. It's a big and scary step for people to accept that they have a problem with alcohol. My DH also resisted labelling as an alcoholic until there was literally no alternative (and even then said it was just a stupid mistake and a one-off which was total nonsense as the problem had been brewing for years but I'd been trying not to admit it to myself) Things change so gradually that you come to accept behaviours as normal when people looking in from the outside can see more clearly. You also say he's a thinker "very cerebral" - again it's not just down and outs who drink too much, in fact real thinkers often do too.

Have you thought of going along to an Al-Anon meeting? It might seem like a drastic step, but its about supporting you whether or not your loved one admits they have a problem with alcohol or not.

After years together admitting that things need to change is SOOoo scary. That's why so many of us live with unacceptable behaviour and intolerable stuff seems better than the unknown.

eandh - ds is like that too. Outwardly far more mature than his years but has taken on responsibilities he shouldn't have done, and seen stuff that kids shouldn't see. Kids are so much more aware of what's going on that we realise. In last few months have had some really illuminating conversations with DS and DD - they knew stuff was all wrong, and were worried and scared to broach the subject. Of course its important not to rely on them as a crutch or confide in them and use them as emotional support but it's so important not to lie or cover up. I was advised by a wise wise friend to make the analogy with a peanut allergy as many kids have friends with a nut allergy "once he used to be able to drink/eat peanuts, and really enjoyed them, but now if he does it will make him really really ill"

Sorry - waffling on. ((( ))) feeling for you.

Ah now, see if you still like and love him, then you've got a real chance.
I wasn't sure if I felt those things anymore, but came to realise that I did. With me, (and with us) it was focusing on the good bits and trying to work out how to mitigate the bad. My OH needed to regulate his temper and his impatience, and I needed to stop storing up resentments and ask for what I wanted, and if not forthcoming, then to negotiate, not be a martyr. Still not there 100 per cent, but we've got a better idea of what to do. And it's worth it for our toddler who can really act out and pick up on our tension IFYSWIM.

It really could be that the alcohol is having a serious effect on your lives - it is a major depressant and can muddy your thinking. I did give up, because I just knew I was drinking too much, but TBH, I wasn't an alcoholic either, so that word wouldn't have registered with me particularly. I haven't stopped myself from having a glass of wine now and then (ie maybe once every couple of months) but that's it and it's never more than that, so you don't have to give it up completely, but it does depends on why you're drinking.....

hmmm, it is a bit gloomy and tense round here at times, though can be quite giddy and gay at other times (normally when he has music on and has had a few G&Ts) - DH is on a tight fuse which blows fairly regularly with the kids though. I emailed him today about talking and he said ok so we'll see how that goes. Thanks for sharing experiences and the tips on the alcohol stuff. I will look int it more and talk to him about it. I really need him to take responsibity for some of this stuff though. I am overwhelmed by it all. I came in the door tonight and he started telling me about DD1's awful behaviour towards her sister - he was minding them both today. I just looked at him and asked him what HE thought we should do about it. I am sick of being in charge of EVERYTHING. Apart from anything else the poor kids were going stir crazy because he hadn't taken them out all day, not once. Arrrgh!

I hate to say it to you but my husband who I am now seperated from never really wanted marriage and chidren and 15 years later we have split up and now have two young daughters who have to live with the fact that I made one big mistake. All you can do is give it your all - which I'm sure you are anyway-to make it work and at least then you know you did everything you could to make it work

I'm sorry to hear that sunflower - tell me, was his behaviour similar to my dh's? was there a time when you "knew" you had to separate? how did you make that decision?

It's so hard. I do still like him but I'm getting fed up with doing all the running...

and please, it wasn't just your mistake, he has to take some responsibility too?

how are things now? I hope your DDs are doing ok...

Just read thru the posts here and felt I had to say about your DD's tantrums etc.
My little DD grew up in a really failing marriage for the first part of her life. She was a late life baby and one of those babies that was a last ditch effort. (Sounds awful). We split when she was 5. Older children were independant altho had issues at the time. My older DS was always a handful and older DD was clingy and dependant only on me. My kids were difficult kids too. But then my marriage was too, all through.
When we split up and I eventually got settled peacefully with DD3 (two older kids were by now independant) she went on a spiral of settling behaviour. Now... she is 'demonless'... happy, peaceful, never gets tantrums, settled, sleeps properly, no twitches, no destructive behaviour. It has all disappeared. That was so worth it along with everything else. Her older bro and sis always recall the previous behaviour with humour and she is like a different person. She remembers too, but just laughs about it as well saying that was the 'unhappy her'.
Kids feed off of a negative environment. Their home and the people and the way that they behave is their back drop.
I am so glad I left my relationship and there was no alcohol or violence involved. We just no longer considered each other and were apathetic and it had died leaving just all this negative air to nurture the kids in... not good, not good.

I know, I know. It can't be good. I thought we had gotten better in this last 12 months since I've been on the ADs. There has certainly been less rowing but we are probably quite apathetic. I do do a lot of muttering under my breath at times too, which I try not to...

so naughtiestgirlisamonitor (love the name btw) and commutingmumfromkent and kally have all had kids with "behavioural issues" due to unhappy marriages...did you all spilt up?

it's funny isn't it - you think if there areen't out and out rows, or violence, or affairs...or whatever ...that you can just keep doing it and you are the only ones affected and not even necessarily in a major way - but I think I am starting to realise that isn't true...I'm low grade unhappy on a fairly regular basis, I'm depressed (tho' much better thanks to meds), he's drinking too much, DD1 is uptight and ready to flip at the slightest thing...I keep thinking its not so bad but then I see it written down like that!

we had a nice evening yesterday - I cooked nice dinner after kids were in bed, we shared ONE bottle of wine, we chatted...can it really be nearly over? I am very confused

crisis talks tonight...