Need to vent, sorry, long and probably boring.

[oneplusone]

I absolutely hate my DH. It's something that has been boiling under the surface for a while but i haven't dared admit it to myself or to anyone for that matter for fear of the consequences ie is it inevitable that we will get divorced unless my feelings about him change? At the moment i can't even think about divorce and what that will mean for my family, i am just focussed on my feelings.

I don't really know where to start. We have been married for 7 years and been together for 8. We probably got married far too quickly but of course we didn't think so at the time. Anyway, we have 2 DC's, DD age 5 and DS age 2.3 and sadly i think they are the cause of a lot of our problems. The main issue I have with DH right now is that he seems to think the DC's are 100% my responsibility and his responsibility is to bring home the bacon.

As far as i'm concerned it is not an equal division of responsibility but he seems to think it is. He think looking after the DC's is a job like any other and therefore he thinks we both have equivalent jobs and equal responsibilities. What he has no idea about is how the burden of looking after DC's is on my shoulders 24/7/365 and it is a far far far greater responsibility than his. If he messes up at work he could get fired. But then he'll get himself another job and on we'll go. If i mess up, it could affect my 2 childrens' lives forever even into adulthood. I see to all their needs, physical, mental and emotional all day every day pretty much on my own. We have NO help or support nearby in terms of parents etc. We are on our own. Or rather ^I* am on my own.

Right now DH has a couple of weeks off work and we are not going away but spending the time sorting out stuff around the house which has needed doing for years. So whilst he is lugging boxes and furniture around i am minding the DC's. I don't mind this to a point. But he seems to think that he has his job of lugging furniture etc and will not even chip in for 5 minutes to mind the DC's whilst i need to do something. This has happened twice already and it makes me MAD. He acts like a lodger instead of the other parent. He thinks he's doing me a favour if he helps out with the DC's even whilst he's at home on holiday. I honestly feel like walking out today. I have had enough of him and his stinking attitude. And if i ever do go out for the day does he look after the DC's on his own? NO WAY. He ALWAYS calls his parents round to help him out as he is useless with the DC's (but will never admit this). His pathetic excuse for not being alone with the DC's all day is that he needs to make sure he properly unwinds at the weekend so he is ready for work on Monday. He thinks he has got some high powered job and endures the sort of stress that no other DH could possibly have and therefore he needs to destress more than anyone else. What a pillock (sp?). Yes, i admit he does have a good job which i'm sure is stressful, but no more than anyone else's, but he seems to think he's a special case.

But this is some of the superficial stuff in a way. Far worse is that i have realised he has been quite abusive towards me in the past. It probably sounds weird to say i have only just realised he was abusing me, but at the time it was happening i had very very low self esteem and self confidence and somehow thought the abuse was my fault and that i'd provoked him. I realise now that it wasn't my fault, that he is responsible for his own behaviour both physical and verbal.

The trouble is whenever i try and talk to him he refuses to take responsibility for his actions in the past and instead says I should just be grateful that he has stuck by me all this time. There's a long story behind his comment and to a certain extent I am grateful that he has stuck by me through some very difficult times which were purely down to my personal issues to do with my childhood and my family which have caused me a lot of emotional and health problems.

But i don't think that means he is entitled to treat me like cr*p and i should just accept it and be grateful he hasn't walked out. I don't want him to stick around but inside be full of resentment towards me, i'd rather he just left. If he's sticking around it should be because he loves and appreciates me, not because he feels sorry for me or through some misguided sense of loyalty.

Anyway, i am having problems of how to deal with my feelings as a result of realise i was abused by him. He has abused me physically (hitting, holding me down, kicking) none of which actually hurt me greatly but were very threatening, intimidating, humiliating and now i realise just totally unacceptable. He has also verbally abused me, calling me nasty, disgusting names. He is not generally an 'angry' sort of person, he is quite placid, but he is very stubborn. I feel very angry at his abuse and also very hurt by his attitude at times. He always seems to jump to the worst conclusion about me even when he knows better and knows the real reason why i haven't done a particular thing i should have for eg.

I just don't know why we're together. When i don't feel like i hate him, i don't feel love, it's just kind of neutral.

I also totally and utterly hate his mother which is another thread altogther. And i think she is the one who has taught him to be judgemental, highly critical, uncompassionate. I just don't know if i can tolerate MIL and DH in my life when i dislike them so much.

DH does have his good points which i why i suppose i haven't left him already. But recently i find myself thinking about leaving more and more often which i'm sure is not a good sign. Talking to him seems to do no good whatsoever....not really surprised about that, but how else can we possibly move forward and overcome this without talking?

OnePlusOne - you both have full-time jobs. You work 7 days a week, he works 5. The common denominator is NOY money - it's time. You put a lot of time into the family and he doesn't - he puts his time into work. It's the same for me and DH, but I do expect him to put time into the family as well, at weekends, when we are a job-share, if you like.

This crap about kids/housework/cooking etc being womens work is so out-dated.

Youcannotbeserious - I can't understand you. I'm a SAHM and love it, but i still expect dh to do his bit with the kids, otherwise he is just a breadwinner and not part of the family unit.

I agree, YCBS. If he makes you feel loved then you don't mind doing your bit and a bit more. When someone loves you, and you love them, you will walk to the ends of the earth for them, and that is clearly the attitude you have with your DH.

Think OP probably hasn't, as I didn't with my XH. He was a pee taking Bstrd who wanted to live a single life whilst also getting cooked for / shagged at home when there was nothing else to do and the pubs had all closed.

I'd pitch in my lot for one type of man, and I'd fight the other type to the death for a bit of respect.

Oneplusone you sound dreadfully unhappy and i'd definitely think about relate - think you can see them on your own sometimes if that may help.

I do agree with Youcannotbeserious that marriage is a partnership. I have two small children (4 and 8 months) and a DH who works very long hours (last week on average 18 hours a day) and weekends. Its his business and he is responsible for people's salaries.

So in our house i do all domestic child-related stuff. I think he's probably only changed a handful of nappies. He also goes mountain biking when he does get some free time.

However he is a fab dad and spends as much time as he can with our sons, teaching the eldest to ride a bike etc.

Different things work for different people but my DH values what i do and knows he's lucky. But i know i'm lucky as i'm fortunate that i don't need to work at the moment.

YCNBS, You really made me laugh , thank you. I can see that you really must be happy! (just challenging you to make sure) [happy].

Having said that, the way you do things in your house would not make me happy at all.

I do feel I should show my DH more appreciation for his efforts in providing for us like you said, but if I didn't feel he was being emotionally supportive of what I did, like OnePlusOne is describing, I just wouldn't feel like showing him any appreciation at all!

YCBS your life seems to be on a completely different level to ONEPLUSONES. ONEPLUSONE you come across as mighty mad and very unhappy. You are not working as a team. He may work hard but his attitude stinks. Fair enough he earns the money but those children are also his. This is what i will never understand. Just cos a person works hard why would they not want to spend quality time with their own children? Why do they have to see it as "helping" or doing a "favour". How is that a healthy family life? And are the children not missing out by not spending time with dad?

I'd like to understand how Oneplusone's other half views things.... I bet he thinks he's does his bit...

I do agree with missbloom - Dads should want to spend quality time with thier kids... but what is Quality time? IME, that isn't changing nappies or settling cranking kids.... Seriously (and I'm not joking about this) if DS starts crying, DH will hand him back to me so he can continue doing whatever he was doing... Same goes if DS needs his nappy changing... As I said, it's what works for us.

I would like to pick CaptainMummy up on the point:

i still expect dh to do his bit with the kids, otherwise he is just a breadwinner and not part of the family unit.

I don't get that view... Do most families have their bills paid from someone outside of the family unit????? Or should he expect you to earn money, otherwise you are just a caregiver (I'm sure you'd have a problem with that! )

Not trying to be pedantic at all - honestly - but I think it's easy to imagine that it's easy to earn £30K, £40K or more... It's not. If it was, we'd all be off doing it.

I've said it before. Marriage is a partnership. Sometimes, it'll feel like 50:50... Other times, it'll feel like 90:10, but I can guarentee that at other times, your other half will feel like it's 90:10 on them too...

I'd like to understand how Oneplusone's other half views things.... I bet he thinks he's does his bit...

I do agree with missbloom - Dads should want to spend quality time with thier kids... but what is Quality time? IME, that isn't changing nappies or settling cranking kids.... Seriously (and I'm not joking about this) if DS starts crying, DH will hand him back to me so he can continue doing whatever he was doing... Same goes if DS needs his nappy changing... As I said, it's what works for us.

I would like to pick CaptainMummy up on the point:

i still expect dh to do his bit with the kids, otherwise he is just a breadwinner and not part of the family unit.

I don't get that view... Do most families have their bills paid from someone outside of the family unit????? Or should he expect you to earn money, otherwise you are just a caregiver (I'm sure you'd have a problem with that! )

Not trying to be pedantic at all - honestly - but I think it's easy to imagine that it's easy to earn £30K, £40K or more... It's not. If it was, we'd all be off doing it.

I've said it before. Marriage is a partnership. Sometimes, it'll feel like 50:50... Other times, it'll feel like 90:10, but I can guarentee that at other times, your other half will feel like it's 90:10 on them too...

YCBS, I totally see where you are coming from, especially when your dh works away.

I have recently stopped work to go to college (have a month gap before I start) and am treating the kids and house like a full time job.

DP does spend time with the kids though and genuinely enjoys it, together with some 'light nagging' to participate in a little housework (basically just helping out with the light stuff) when we are both in the house, but if he worked away during the week then I wouldn't expect help either, as long as he was spending quality time with the kids.

Wasn't sure if i would come back to this thread, thought it might upset me too much. But temptation got the better of me!

Thank you for all your responses, it's good to get so many different viewpoints on board. One of the things i wanted to make clear was that DH does spend some time playing with the DC's but usually has to be pushed into doing it, or i make myself scarce and he's kind of left with them. But when he does spend time with them they all get on well and the DC's love him.

My issue was not with him taking over the childcare as such, it was literally him stepping in for 5 minutes eg whilst the kids were in the bath, he was nearby upstairs pottering around and i nipped downstairs to get something. This is exactly what happened the other day, i went down to get a nappy, and the kids started bickering (as usual) and all he had to do was walk 2 steps into the bathroom and keep an eye until i came back upstairs and he couldn't/wouldn't do even that. That is what made me so mad, it was literlly 2 minutes of his time i wanted, whilst he was on holiday and not doing anything else particularly pressing. The other time was at the end of a long hard day for me on my own with the kids and DS needed his nappy changing which i do 99% of teh time. I was exhausted and i had kept the DC's out of DH's way all day so he could get on with stuff around the house and i didn't want to spend half an hour chasing DS around and then forcibly holding him down to change his nappy which is what i usually do. So i asked DH and he refused. That felt like the last straw which is when i came on here yesterday.

Re paying the bills, i have made a huge financial contribution towards our household by paying the (big) deposit on our house, (by selling the flat i bought long before i met DH) so i don't feel particularly beholden to DH for paying all the bills. I am not sitting around watching tv all day, i am working too, it's not my fault this government does not recognise bringing up the next generation of society as a worthwhile job and therefore i don't get paid for what i do.

I do think a big part of the problem is that DH has NEVER spent even one day all alone at home with the kids and so has no idea just how demanding and exhausting it is. If he had done so he would understand how, the other day, i was just too exhausted and fed up to change DS's last nappy of the day and so asked him to do it. Of course normally he's not around and so i do it all, but does that mean that if he is around he shouldn't do a single thing to help me out? Our jobs are totally different, mine carries far greater responsibility, has longer hours and is physically and emotionally draining so I do think DH should help me out a bit when he's around.

Re the abuse, i think a big factor in that is my self esteem is so much better now than it was, so i wouldn't stand for any abuse from DH ever again and i think he knows that as he did actually stand up for me against his mother earlier this year for the first time ever.

But i still feel upset and angry over the episodes in the past and i want to find a way to get over that.

DH is not a violent, angry man and so i don't want to split up with him over those episodes; we in a very difficult situation and things are different now on that front.

Maybe just talking it over with a counsellor on my own might help.

He does sound unreasonable. As i said i do the vast majority of domestic/child related stuff but DH knows its hard work.

There's no way he'd want to do it all and thankfully realises i don't spend all day watching tv.

Do you still love him? I think small children do put a massive strain on a relationship. But think you have a lot of anger towards him based on his past behaviour which i totally understand.

Anyway that for just one afternoon you could leave them with him eg if you go to the hairdressers or something?

Oneplusone....

please don't tell me you really believe that we should be paid to have kids?????????? I know when I worked full time, I'd have been mighty disgruntled to have had to pay higher taxes so that other women could stay home with kids... (Just MHO)

I do think you have a valid point that it's unreasonable for your DH to refuse to change one nappy. I don't expect my DH to do on a regular basis, and I don't expect him to want to do it, but upon reflection, I do expect him to be mn enough to do it if explicitly asked on the odd occasion.

They are your DH's children too, and that should mean he can step up if you need to...

I think we should be paid to have kids!

If nobody had kids, who would pay taxes to keep the country running when everyone else is old and retired. Plenty of people don't want the stress of having kids but want to benefit from other people's taxes.

In an earlier post you said we CHOOSE to stay at home and look after our children. This seems like a strange thing to say I think. We aren't going to choose to bugger off and leave them at home on their own. We could work and pay someone else to look after them, but in many cases the cost of childcare makes it not worth the money, and what if we think the best people to look after our kids is their own parents? It is a very important job and just as stressful as a lot of paid jobs and I think society should value and appreciate it by paying us! More child benefit would be good. Maybe SAHMs would do an even better job if they felt valued rather than accused of being lazy because they 'don't work'. We DO work bloody hard.

Have I missed something here. How is it that important the amount of childcare he does or doesnt do? THe bastard has been holding her down thumping and kicking her? WHat has her getting or not getting a job got to do with anything?

Sorry, but kids are optional. No-one is forced to have them and (IMHO) the average tax payer shouldn't be forced to py for them.

I grew up in a pretty depressed area in the late 80s and leaving school with no qualifications, no prospects etc., was a career choice - get pregnant, have a kid, jump to the top of the housing list... I'm not trying to say people shouldn't have kids (even young mums - some are great!) but it should not be an option with no partner / father and no income.

My DH and I organise our life so I am able to stay home. I am utterly grateful to him that he works so hard that I am able to do that. I would not be happy if I had to work so that we could pay higher taxes so that women who's DH's refuses to even change a nappy got paid to stay at home.

Is that Harsh? I'm sure certain MNers will think it is, but please bear in mind the point I'm trying to make....

OnePlusOne's DH can't even be arsed to change a nappy.... even when asked directly to do so. And yet somehow the problem becomes my DH's (As a tax payer).. .Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

I'm not sorry if this offends people because I totally believe in it. If you are man / woman enough to make a baby, then stand up and bloody well look after that baby. The Government isn't around to fund our lives. This labour government has created a nanny state where we dont' feel responsible for our own choices, but simply blame 'the government' - someone HAS to pay for all of this.

Oh my god, my head is spinning! YCNBS you are so angry passionate! Not sure if I'm being thick or not (even though I have a BSc(Hons)), but I can't get my head round that last post! I do agree that people shouldn't have children to benefit financially and get out of working though, they should have them because they want to love them! Anyway OnePlusOne hasn't had children for financial gain so this discussion is off on a tangent!

And Hercules you are right!, I seem to have been distracted by a different discussion!

Abuse is NOT ok. Could it be a one off? or is this a naive view? OnePlusOne, you seem to have minimized this part of the issue and talked more about the childcare part and some of us also seem to have minimized it - sorry, this is wrong. It is important to think about whether he is likely to abuse you again and from that, whether you should stay with him. Have you talked to him about what he did? Has he said sorry and that he won't do it again? Does he know it is wrong? If he hasn't said these things then it seems like he doesn't care enough about how you felt/feel and I can see why it still hurts and makes it difficult to want to be with him. The lack of help with childcare just makes it even worse.

actingnormal - my post was in response to this:

I am not sitting around watching tv all day, i am working too, it's not my fault this government does not recognise bringing up the next generation of society as a worthwhile job and therefore i don't get paid for what i do.

IMHO It's not the Goverments responsbility for us to sit at home looking after the children we chose to have.

Call me passionate, call me angry... don't much care. I believe 100% in what I say. I don't expect anyone to py for the fact we have a child. And that includes not varying child support etc., to his other children which means my child, in effect, gets much less.... so it's a topic close to my heart.

Well, YCBS, it's a view, but not the only legitimate one. Of course it's great that you feel happy about the way you and your dp live your lives, but that doesn't mean its the only way.

coi: I work more than full time (around 60 hours a week), I am the only breadwinner. I am the mother. When my kids were toddlers I always bathed them and put them to bed when I was home, and I have done my bit over the years, although nothing near 50% because I am simply not there to do 50%. I don't think that is what the OP wants: quite reasonably, she wants parenting to be a partnership, with a contribution in terms of time and care commensurate with how much time and care each partner can afford. Her dh cannot afford to give much because he is busy with work, but he is giving less than he should, in her eyes.

I think she has a point.

Hi all, once again, thank you for your responses, reading them has made me think which can only be good.

Actingnormal, i think you understand my point perhaps a bit better than some of the other posters. Reading through the thread i think i do seem to be minimising the abuse; i do think this is because DH really is not a violent or nasty man, he has been very good to me over the years in many ways. I think we have both been pushed to our limits due to perhaps just having too much on both our plates but nobody around to help take the strain sometimes. I have had a lot of emotional issues which have affected both of a hugely and i think DH feels some resentment and anger towards me for this. I don't think he even realises this himself, but very occasionally when he does get angry about something he gets REALLY angry. I think this is something we need to talk about.

I don't think women should get paid for having children. But I do think something needs to be done to recognise what a hard, all consuming job raising children is. Usually you are rewarded for working by getting paid but of course that doesn't really seem appropriate for the job of raising children but in our society it seems to be the only option. I know it will never happen, but i do think the lack of recognition and reward for mothers plays a big part in the high numbers of mothers with depression, particularly full time SAHM mothers.

It's not really fair to say having children is a choice. Yes it is, but it is one we have to make with our eyes closed. There is no way of knowing what it's like beforehand, and once you have had DC's there is no going back if you realise it is not at all what you expected.

Anyway, I am going off topic now, i think the answer is for me to talk to DH and get him to realise he is angry and resentful towards me for reasons i can understand and that he needs to find a way to release his pent up anger so it doesn't burst out in a massive rage like it has been on occasion.

Sorry, Oneplusone, you've made my point completely. "yes it is" - Yes, having children is a choice. It's often not what we expected and, in some cases, not what we wanted, but it is a choice.

As I said much earlier in this thread, I wouldn't choose to live the way I do if we didn't need the money, but we are where we are.

The ultimate point is that you aren't particularily happy with your DH... and that's what needs to be resolved.

I hope you are able to talk to him. I do feel, though, that his POV needs to be taken into consideration - what I mean by that is (i) does he feel he spends enough time with the kids or (ii) does he simply not want to spend more time with them... what sort of a childhood did he have (Not questions I think you need to answer to tell me, but important to help the resolution IYSWIM)
I do hope you get it sorted.