Adult son not paying his way or helping out. Really fed up with it. WWYD?

[catweazle]

My DS1 dropped out of uni this year and came home in June. He didn't want to go back to his old job at McDs and wasn't going to but DS2 bullied him into it. He doesn't know what he wants to do. Every week since he's been back I've suggested the adult careers office in the town might help and every week he finds excuses not to go. He is only working 3 days (and not full days). The rest of the time he sits in his room on his laptop. He has started his driving lessons again as he thinks it will help to find him a job.

We sat him down several weeks ago and explained that he needed to be paying us for his keep. We have never taken money off him before, even when he was working FT in the last summer hols, because he was saving for uni. I don't want to make money off him but firstly we really can't afford to keep him as he eats like a locust, and secondly no-one gets a free ride in this life and it's time he got used to it. We suggested 1/3 of his take home pay but said if he thought that was too much we were open to discussion.

Several weeks have passed and no money. I have "reminded" him twice. He just grunts. It is embarrassing to have to beg for money. Our finances are quite bad and we could do with it, especially the amount of food we are having to buy for 3 teens at home all day... In the meantime he is buying books, toys, sweets, music, so it isn't as if he is really skint. It cost us over £300 to go and get him home from uni and although we don't expect him to be grateful it would be nice if he would acknowledge that we have actually put ourselves out for him.

If we ask him to tidy up it doesn't happen. if we ask him to watch the baby he won't. He doesn't do anything spontaneously- dishwasher, making meals etc and has to be nagged to do anything, so it's easier not to bother. He is almost 21 years old.

He wasn't like this before he went away. He was always anxious to work as much as possible and was quite helpful around the house. I'm sure the experience has knocked his confidence but he won't talk to us. I'm trying to help him but he won't co-operate. DH is now saying we should find him somewhere to live and ask him to leave because he is fed up with his attitude.

Help!!!

[Cammelia]

No-one has to go to uni at 18, you can work for a few years to save up and then go. Its easier to get a place and the studying is easier when you're slightly older.

For the op's son, get a full-time job and pay for your keep. or move out completely.

[girlnextdoor]

riven your DC would get extra help- it is there for families who need it. However, with tuition fees at £3k a year, accommodation at £4k a year and food etc the same, they will all come out with £££s of debt, whether that is paid by them or parents.

We had to re-mortgage to fund ours.

[expatinscotland]

'expat and riven- you need to get real, I am afraid if you think your kids would be able to support themselves through uni without any help. '

we do not have it to give, girl. i don't know how much more real it gets than that.

it just isn't there.

there is NOTHING to save at the end of the month.

we will never be able to purchase our own home so there will always be rent to pay and needing to have some money to hand for deposits and the like.

i don't see what is so hard about expecting a person to support himself in adulthood or through university (in adulthood) without Mum and Dad kicking in.

there's no law that says you have to go straight out of secondary school, not work full-time and do it, join the armed forces and get help that way, etc.

but since you're so fixated on it, riven and i both have SN kids that we'll be happy to see finish school at all, much less go to university.

if you ask me, it's a waste of time for probably about 50% of the people in there now.

[expatinscotland]

we don't and never will have anything to re-mortgage.

life's tough.

they're lucky they're here rather than in some shit place where life is really hard.

[girlnextdoor]

expat- well at least we agree on something! waste of time for at least 50% of them there!

[expatinscotland]

it's not required that they a) go to university at all b) go when they're straight out of 18 c) Mum and Dad contribute.

like riven said, once the CTC and CB end, they're going to have to earn their keep.

especially because rent's expensive and once they leave we're going to try to move to a one-bedroom as it's cheaper.

[girlnextdoor]

There are all kinds of ways to go to uni. I don't think this is the point of this thread though. and no, not everyone has to go.

I am sorry you have a child with SN- I don't know your history and I am sorry you will never have your own home- can you not work at all?

[MrsTittleMouse]

When I was a similar age I had a bit of a life crisis. I probably had reactionary depression (long story) and I lived with my parents rent free. However I also went to job interviews, did voluntary work, took evening classes and every night my parents came home to a clean kitchen, a home made dinner on the table and all the laundry sorted. It was a very hard time for me, and I was lucky that my parents had the means that I could stay with them, as I think that it would have made things worse to be on my own. The next year, I went to university and started a life on my own without too many problems.

Engineering courses are notoriously tough, by the way (or at least, they were in my day) and have a really high drop-out rate.

[Anniegetyourgun]

DS1 has been to uni and come back, DS2 (like Catweazle's DS1) gave up after two stabs at Year 2, and DS3 is heading off to uni next month. They paid, or are paying, their own way because otherwise they wouldn't be able to go. It's tight for them but it's a wonderful lesson in living frugally. DS1 got some fabulous clothes from charity shops and made very canny use of Happy Hours to eke out his beer money! It can be done.

By the way, when DS1 had an after-school job, he needed a lift from his dad so we charged him for the petrol. Fair's fair (or "fare" in this case ).

[Podrick]

I think you need to force a discussion.

Tell him you will be talking to him about contributing to the household both financially and in terms of chores in 2 days time and also discussing his career options.

Bring to the table your food bills and utilities bills. Ask him what he thinks he should contribute. Also ask what chores he thinks he should do and what he would want you to do for him eg lifts to work etc.

Ask him what support he would like from you in finding a career.

Actually you could give him this info ahead of time so he has had time to think about it before you discuss it.

[catweazle]

This has moved on a lot since I last checked in.

girlnextdoor no we don't financially support the kids through uni. We run out of money long before we run out of month That's why I hadn't taken money off him before. The deal was always they would have to fund themselves. They were lucky in that my dad took out a policy for each of them when they were babies so they had a fair bit of money (£2.5k) to start them off, then they worked from 16.

DD1 has been to uni and come out the other side, and DS2 goes this year. Our contribution is the travel and the bits they need. After that they are on their own.

I had hoped that DS would realise what a big deal it was for DH to drop everything and dash up to Scotland when he did (not just the money) because his first thought was for DS's welfare (I was really impressed TBH). Obviously we haven't gone on at him about what it cost, but it is a lot of money to have to shell out.

He's managed to go off to work without speaking to me at all today but I'm off work this week so I will make a point of catching him.

Thank you all for your input. It's difficult to know who is being unreasonable when you are in the middle of the situation. My aunt lived at home until she was 35 and paid her parents next to nothing, so I don't plan to follow their lead

[expatinscotland]

'Ask him what he thinks he should contribute. Also ask what chores he thinks he should do and what he would want you to do for him eg lifts to work etc.

Ask him what support he would like from you in finding a career.'

The OP has already done this.

His actions are his reponse. He thinks it should be nothing.

Hence, why she wrote:
'We suggested 1/3 of his take home pay but said if he thought that was too much we were open to discussion.

Several weeks have passed and no money. I have "reminded" him twice.'

I think you've been as supportive as you can afford to be, cat.

Winter is coming and fuel bills are going to go way up.

[expatinscotland]

If you've tried talking and it's not working, cat, maybe email or text or write out in a bullet point list what his rent and board will be and when you'll be collecting it.

[nappyaddict]

how much is 1/3 of his pay?

[nappyaddict]

btw i went to uni (albeit only for a year) and had to pay for it all myself. so did my brother and sister. my sister lived at home and my brother lived away although quite close to home. my sister was the only one who completed her degree but i am pretty certain my brother would have done but he died just before he was due to start his last year. neither of us had any help off my parents except for the fact that my mum used to freeze a few meals to take my brother every weekend as his uni was only 20 mins away. student loan paid for accomodation and we had a loan for the fees. we also got a maintenance grant which is means tested. we also worked part time - about 25 hours a week. with tips it probably worked out to about £200 a week - sometimes more. when assignments and exams were due we would probably take 3-4 weeks holiday. in the holidays we were working about 40-50 hours a week to save up. it is doable. don't feel guilty if you can't afford to pay for your kids to go to uni. that's why they get loans and grants!

[Qally]

"expat and riven- you need to get real, I am afraid if you think your kids would be able to support themselves through uni without any help. Have you ANY idea of the figures we are talking about? BOTH my kids work all their holidays but it still doesn't pay enough- and if students spend all their time working they do less well in their studies."

If you think all families are in a position to help out, you are scarily wrong. If you think that most students don't have to work their way through, ditto. And as my job is assessing student finance for a local LEA, and I am rather more aware of the exact figures for all income levels than you are likely to be, I can assure you that many, many students go with parents on benefit, or very low incomes indeed, and then do very well. I'm talking family incomes of below 10k a year. How the hell can they help their kids out?

I also take issue with the idea that having to work through Uni dooms you academically. I worked in my college bar, because my Uni won't allow you to work externally in term time - in the vacations I worked full time in any office job I could get. I also got a 2.1 in law. The girl I worked with most often got a double 1st in economics. Neither of us were notably disadvantaged.

Finally, the notion that we English fund the Scots is baffling to me. North Sea oil and gas were and are Scots assets. That's an awful lot of money sent down south, from a very small population's pockets. I think we did very well out of that bargain. If they have the sense to vote in a way that protects the poorest and the youngest in society, good on 'em.

[tigermoth]

Interesting thread. I really feel for you, catweazle. My dh has in the long distant past suffered from depression due to dropping out of uni, then not working and just closing in on himself. It was really hard for me to keep going, see-sawing between nagging and threats and motivating supporting him back into work. He's been back at work for many years now, and likes what he does, but I really had to give him in almighty push to begin with.

Your son seems keen to spend money on himself. If he had a better-paying job he'd have even more money to hand, plus he'd be able to afford to run a car when he passes his driving test. And if he had more money, it would be easier (from his POV)to pay you something.

For the time being, I think in your position I'd drop any talk of university and get him to focus on a job with money as the motivating factor. Uni sounds like the source of his depression for now.

Can you get him to up his wages, even by working an extra day at McDonalds? Then he could pay you the extra day's wages, without noticing any change in his own money. And look around for other (full time) jobs he can do that pay better. Send off for application forms and present them to him. Show him newspaper ads for jobs. Give him phone numbers of temp or permanent recruitment agencies - talking to recruitment staff may really boost his confidence so really try to push this. Make appointments for him. Break things down into easy steps.

Tell him that the bottom line is, if he won't follow any of your leads, you'll stop driving him to work. What's it to you if he gives up his job at McDonalds? As he is not contributing any money to the household, you'll be no worse off if he is not working. The only person who will suffer is him.

[tigermoth]

Just to add, one of the job ads I showed my dh was for a job as a pest control officer, with full training provided. I nagged dh to apply for it as he had shown interest in that sort of line of work before.

He didn't, much to my frustration, but I kept on trying to convince him it was a good idea. It must have planted a seed in his mind because two years later, the job was re-advertised and dh went for it. (He was working in another job by then, but not one he liked). He was successful in the interview, completed the training, got qualified, found he actually enjoyed the job and it had a future. He stayed in the job for a couple of years, then moved on to other pest control jobs and is now part running a pest control business.

So if at first your nagging doesn't suceed, don't give up - keep trying!

[girlnextdoor]

QUally
I also take issue with the idea that having to work through Uni dooms you academically. I worked in my college bar, because my Uni won't allow you to work externally in term time - in the vacations I worked full time in any office job I could get. I also got a 2.1 in law. The girl I worked with most often got a double 1st in economics. Neither of us were notably disadvantaged.

Finally, the notion that we English fund the Scots is baffling to me. North Sea oil and gas were and are Scots assets. That's an awful lot of money sent down south, from a very small population's pockets. I think we did very well out of that bargain. If they have the sense to vote in a way that protects the poorest and the youngest in society, good on 'em.&Qually*

I hear what you are saying but there are exceptions to every rule...

I am quoting facts, not individual cases- the research shows- look it upif you want- that kids who work during term time achieve, statistically, lower grades than those who don't. This is not my opinion- it has been shown.

I don't believe I ever said that students should not work- both my DCs do and have. They earn enough to support the extras they want, but we are able to pay for the food and living expenses so we do- at great sacrifice to what we could do for us- such as new cars and holidays- we have not had a proper holiday for years, nor replaced cars etc etc.

Our DCS use their loan for their accommodation- it is not enough anyway- and we pay the living expenses. They have friends whose parents pay the lot.

This is not really the thread to discuss politics, but as I brought it up I will defend my case- England props up the Scottish economy. Everyone who knows anything about economics knows that. My son is an economist anyway, but it is a well known fact that without subsidies from the English, Scotland would have massive debt. If you do not beleive me, do your own research.

It is also very unfair that students at Scottish unis do not have to pay tuition fees, we the English tax payers do- and our English students incur fees of £3K a year. Rant over.

[girlnextdoor]

riven- a student loan is max £4K -it is means tested. This in my mind is crazy as on the one hand the government regards them as adults at 18, but on the other hand it expects parents whose income is above a certain amount ( irrespective of any huge mortgages we might have!!) to pay for their kids at uni.

My kids each get around £3k which is 75% of the max. loan. Their housing in hall or rented flats exceeds that, by about £500 a year. My daughter chose the cheapest hall she could. On top of that are tuition fees at £3k a year, or £1K as it was when my son started. We will pay some of that in time. Some parents clear all of that so their kids leave uni debt-free.

They do not earn enough to cover their own food for 30 weeks of the year- plus text books, clothes, fares, and the odd night out!
Some of the books they need are £80 each! Once my son needed 3 at that price, all in one go, for his course. The way we look at it is that if they were living at home- which they would be if they were 18-21 in most cases, as very few jobs would allow them to live independently on that wage, we would be buying food for them anyway, That is our duty as parents.

I don't begrudge what we do for them. They buy their own clothes, their social life, and any holidays and driving lessons etc. We are much more stingy than a lot of parents.

What I do object to very much is that they are "suffering" because of our supposed comfortable income- even though they are regarded as adults. The government has set this up so it is in fact another tax on a certain section of society. just why SHOULD my kids get less loan because we earn £x amount? Because the government expects us to pay up.