Bad sex or no sex.

[AintMisbehavin]

I've been dreading starting this thread. I find it hard to think about without getting upset. It's all a bit complicated - I'll try and be concise.

DH and I don't have a sex life. The only time we do is when it's time for another baby and I work out when we need to do it, we do, it's crap, I get pregnant, job done.

I think the reason we don't ever do it is because it's so bloody shit when we do. DH seems to think it's all a bit yucky, he won't touch me 'down there', he always goes straight to wash his willy after it's done.

When we met he was very reserved eg he claimed not to like blow jobs, and gradually we tried new things and had a pretty okay sex life. We're a bit imcompatible (he calls it "making love" and wants to be slow and sensuous and make this horrible "hmmmmmm" noise, whereas I'd be happy for it all to be a bit more fun, a bit rougher, a bit quicker.)

It's hard to remember exactly how we've got into the state we're at now, but I think I'm a lot to blame - I got so very angry about how completely rubbish everything was and his reluctance to try anything new or different that I thought screw it, we won't do it at all then, and rejected him completely.

Although there was a long time where I kept trying to initiate sex and he pretended not to notice. Rather humiliating for me.

Now we bumble along and sex just never comes up. It wouldn't occur to him to have sex with me. To be honest, having sex with my husband would feel a bit like sleeping with a brother. Yuck. He really doesn't turn me on, and I obviously don't turn him on either.

We've had talks about it. We've had blazing rows about it. We've agreed on the way forward. We just never get anywhere. The last time we had regular sex just because we wanted to must be about 6 - 8 years ago I think.

We have a great relationship apart from this. We get on well, talk about stuff, enjoy each other's company, love the children, love each other. Most of the time I am resigned that I am incredibly lucky to have such a good life with a marvellous man who I love and who loves me, and the only fly in my ointment is no sex, well I can live with that. Then I read on mumsnet about other people having great sex and it being such an important part of their relationship and I cry.

The washing his penis thing and finding sex "yucky" rings alarm bells for possibly being gay to me. I do find that really odd. I am so sorry you are going through this. I personally feel that intimacy is really important and although you do not have to be at it like rabbits, when you do have sex it should be pleasurable for both parties.

I think the fact that your DH finds touching you unpleasant, then it really does set alarm bells ringing.

It is not really about how you and him gel, it is about him and his sexuality which goes way beyond any relationship he is in.

It's not as if he has a dodgy technique or anything- it is that he doesn't like touching a woman's bits. The face that he also "performs" quickly as if to get it over with also says a lot.

Was it always like this? did you have lots of foreplay early in your relationship? Has he had plenty of other lovers before you- or is he inexperienced?

The fact that he won't discuss it is also relevant.

I think either he or both of you should see a sexual counsellor- Relate can do it.

You might have to begin to consider if he could be gay- it is NOT normal for hetero men not to like touching, by and large.

Do you think any of this is relevant?

When I read the title i thought "god neither!" but then I read you OP and thought she loves him and things are good and the only time it bothers you is when you read about other people having great sex and I thought its sad that other people having fun makes you feel bad.

What I think I would do in your situation is talk, what are either of you gaining from being shy, it's just sex and in my book a neccessary part of life (even if only doing it to procreate)

If he doesn't like touching and he's not gay then what about getting some kind of vibrator (doesn't have to be a huge one or anything scary) that he can touch you with?

Has he always been like this or has it only been since you have dc's in the house? Maybe he's worried about them catching you at it (maybe he caught his parents at it or vice versa and now he's got it into his head it's dirty and to be done quickly and quietly or something?)

I've got to honest and say i can't blame you for being hurt and angry, you're only human and sex is a basic human need imo, tbh I get really snappy if I don't get enough sex (sex releases feel good hormones etc so i think this has something to do with it)

I actually think it's quite admirable of you to say you would never have an affair and would rather go without, I can't hand on heart say I could live without sex forever and be faithful.

I was looking at the leaflet from our GP surgery the other day and thought 'wow - the fact that every other GP now seems to list 'sexual counselling / sexual therapy' alongside 'chiropody' amongst the services they routibely offer suggests that here in the liberated 'noughties' a lot of people do need a bit of helping hand to achieve that happy liberating relationship with sex. I think you are far far from being alone.

It does sound as if your DH may have some probles - possibly his sexuality, possibly stuff lurking from his early perceptions wih sex or women's bodies. Maybe he has a hormonal imbalance or something. But unless he is prepared to approach exploring this either on his own, or with you, I'm not sure what you can do.

I wouldn't imagine it is your GP who conducts te counselling - more probably visiting expert who you will never need to see again!

You could ask?

And Relate will see people on thier own - you wouldn't have to go with your DH.

Blimey. When I logged on I just had a crap sex life. Now my husband is gay. Turns out a problem shared isn't a problem halved after all.

Am reeling a bit from the idea that people think he's gay. Not quite sure what to do with that. If he is gay he's living a pretty impressive lie - and it couldn't all a lie because he loves me and loves and wants a family.

Rather than being turned off by women, couldn't he just be turned off by me? Maybe I'm a big munty minger who just doesn't float his boat? Having babies is not kind to the body.

Zippi your dvd tuition sounds like a wonderful accidental solution.

I have asked him before about going to Relate and he's said he would hate that, and instead couldn't we work things out by ourselves. We agree on a way forward but it doesn't actually happen. We both just lie there in the dark waiting for the other person to make the first move, me feeling more and more resentful as the minutes tick by. I have made the first move myself but he generally rebuffs me.

Years ago I suggested (in the heat of a horrid row about it) that I should just have a discrete affair and that way we'd keep everything special to us and I wouldn't have to spend my whole life wondering if I was so unattractive that I didn't deserve sex. He was appalled and distraught at the notion and said that he wanted us to have a complete relationship with sex included, and would hate for me to go elsewhere.

I think we don't know how to talk about it.

Dior, I can't believe you just said that

Oh, and when he doesn't cover his tracks on the computer and I go rifling through the history, he looks at girl porn, not boy porn.

(Once it was threesome porn with men and women, but usually it's horrible pneumatic women).

But not talking isn't helping either, talking about sex is as important if not more important imo. Women get turned on mentally and men physically so I've heard so him talking to you maybe about how attractive he finds you and the things he thinks about during sex/ when he's feeling in the mood for sex etc could be a real turn on but you have to talk.

Could you start by writing letters to each other? or emails or even msn?

Sounds like he needs to work on boosting your confidence.

I bet you are not a big munty minger at all!

i think it is really hard if things have got past a comfortable point when really you both start to have lots of issues of minor and more major significance

so it is making you both self conscious

you really need something to make you both feel ok about relaxing and trying not to feel you are trying or possibly failing in each others eyes

tyhats hard

but if you can be brave then it could come right for you

From everythign I've ever read or heard on this subject the way forward is

Communication
spending quality time alone without sex
massage, relaxing baths (without instigating sex)

But i haven't been in your relationship I don't know your husband, I don't know you etc but I can't think of anything else that could help.

Has it always been like this?

Having a family and wanting a family do not mean he cannot be gay.

Because you are emotionally close to the situation, I think you are taking this as being "your fault"- such as by not appealing to him.

It is more likely he would be like that with any woman.

Believe me please- the more he fights NOT to talk to an expert, the more reason there is to believe he knows what the reason is, or could be.

I had an EP who had sexual issues and went to see 2 counsellors myself- the first thing they suggested was that he was gay- so be warned!

He wasn't , but had had a very sheltered upbringing and had lots of hang-ups. In the end we could not sort ourselves out as I had been very critical of him and he became psychologically impotent- we gave it 5 years but at the end of the day admitted we could not sort it.

I really would advise counselling from an expert- don't be defensive about the fact he could be gay- it is just a suggestion but most counsellors would ask

He could be looking at girl porn to see IF it turns him on- maybe he is unsure of which way he swings?

Why is washing his willy bad - I like to shower after sex, I don't like to go to bed sweaty - no one is accusing me of being gay because I have a passing interest in ponging. Perhaps he has an acute sense of smell?

But yes the OP has a problem here. With confidence as well as her DH. Personally I'd be royally offended at such shoddy treatment and insist he went to counselling....or the divorce courts - his choice

not ponging

Have you been together long? Did you have other partners before you two got together? Sorry to ask this personal question, but it feels like you are both really inhibited.

Are you sure it's not your interpretations that are wrong? re: yr remark about geography teacher 'hmmmmm'. He may just make that TYPE of noise and that is how he sounds when he's turned on. Its sad you say you think it sounds 'whatever'. My guy flicks his toungue over his lips like a kid when he's 'there' and I at first felt as if I was just 'by the way' (like not part of the whole thing) when I saw that. But he gets like that because of the way I make him feel, just as I do certain things when in the abandonment stage. But if you care about someone sexually, this all 'works' and makes it unique and positive.
I am older (probably)(I get the feel you are quite young) and divorced and have had a few sexual partners throughout my life. All men/women are different in their sexual behaviour. Looking back to earlier days too, I was more concerned about my own self (how I was being interpreted, seen as, the impression I was making) now, where I am today, I have found a balance. I know how to create an acceptance and accept openly. This is harmony and you both need to try and reach that in small steps.
Get intimate, extremely so. Show each other the works. Become accustomed to the things/sounds/smells/textures, aquaint yourselves all over again. Start from the begining and you can probably rebuild yourselves. But don't be critical of one anothers 'reactions/performances'. Read up on it, watch or whatever, the normal sexual functions (like being wet or moaning) and learn to realise that these are the indicators of how turned on you make each other feel. They are all green lights!!! Seems like you have a lot going for you, a good chance of changing things despite the rough begining. Sexual councelling and then being less inhibited with one another will probably make a quick cure for both of you.

well you have lots going for you as a couple maybe you could be the counsellor yourself or he could..one of you taking the lead to gradually get to a point where you are looking forward to a sexual expereince together

if you are both shy and anxious then it wont work so maybe you can boost him up and help him along but with a sort of if this doesnt work then we wont worry pact

It is horrible to feel unattractive to your partner and I do empathise. I also think that if he just didn't fancy you he would have wandered by now.

I was married in my early 20's and our sex life became a chore. It was OK in the beginning and before we married. My problem was that my exh took ages to come. It may have been his drinking but I felt it was a problem with me. I just couldnt be bothered to go there in the end. We split up and my confidence was at an all time low especially when he met someone else very soon. I went out, had a bit to drink and started the most passionate affair with an older guy.

I have had many partners since and this taking ages (yawn) to do the deed had never arisen before. (excuse the pun).

abouteve Isn't taking ages to come (a show of mastering control) better than it being over in a flash no? Am confused here?

or couldn't he 'get it up' (usually the effects of drink) and that is what made you feel bored/as if unattractive?

His problem was that it took ages and ages, he would be grunting and sweating like a pig, sorry if tmi. It was so boring and I got to the stage where I couldn't face starting anything off.

I did think it was me he couldnt perform properly with but I've never come across this since. Thank god

abouteve- how awful for you...

Tbh I think you need professional sex therapy and I think it hugely unlikely that you can turn this around without it.

I suggest building up his ego in other ways and showing him how much you appreciate and adore him...this will make him more likely to feel confident and able to go for therapy. If he really wants for you to have a good sex life together he will go for this help, even though this will not be easy for him.

Agree 100% with podrick- you need professional help even if you go on your own-his problems seem firmly rooted in his psyche- nothing to do with you.

be interesting to know if this was a problem with other women before you married. Do you know about that - has he told you anything?
Often, men who don't have success or experience before marriage find it hard to cope if the sex side of things hits the buffers for any reason.