"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

I think I never really believed that Dh would care that much about me to not want me to be with someone else.

Hi all, haven't been able to read nor post for a while, DC's have been unwell and home cos of the snow. I have had to push all this stuff away for days and now am finding it hard to get back into the right frame of mind for dealing with this stuff. I've been having feelings and thoughts come up but i've had to push them away, but i know they're there and i want to deal with them. But now i have a bit of time at last i can't think of anything. Typical.

NAB, i haven't responded to you before but i have been reading your posts. Something i read recently may be relevant to you. It was something along the lines of if you have an intense and passionate first relationship early in your life, that relationship can make it harder for you to form relationships later in life as you are constantly searching for the same thing you had before, only that sort of intense feeling seems to belong to the teenage years and is very hard if not impossible to recapture as you get older and more adult. I think i read it on a bbc website, perhaps if you do a search you may find it. Just knowing what you're feeling and why is a help i find, if not always a solution.

AN, i just read what you said on NAB's other thread about happiness and never expecting it to last because in your childhood whenever you felt happy your mood was usually unexpectedly interrupted and stopped by your father's outbursts. Actually that is my own situation i am describing, but i wanted to thank you for sharing what your therapist said as i often feel exactly as you describe. I feel so high, unnaturally high it seems to me and i just KNOW that sooner or later i will come crashing down. I never really thought that even this was due to my childhood but now that you mention it makes perfect sense.

One thing that has been bothering me recently and upsetting me is some things i have realised about my youngest sister. I realise that ever since she met her boyfriend, who is now her husband, around 13 years ago, she has become much closer to her husband's side of the family than her own. ie she is very close to her 2 SIL's who are both older than her and i feel her SIL's have taken the place of me and middle sister. And the reason she is much closer to her family in law is of course because of the horrible family situation we had at home, full of arguments, nasty atmospheres, coldness and hostility, in all directions. I don't blame her in a way, but it also means she and i have missed out on being close and really caring about each other as sisters. And i suppose i haven't always felt this loss but i am really feeling it now. It is yet another loss to me caused by my parents, and due to no fault of my own.

Another thing which has been bothering me is to do with DH. I'm not sure whether it is a problem in the present or whether it's roots are also in my past. Perhaps it will become clear as I type. A few years ago, before i became aware of any of my childhood issues, DH and i had a row about something or the other and during it he called me a 'one trick pony' because i could only really cook one dish for dinner. In a sense he was right in that it was true that with regards to being able to cook, i knew very little and could only really cook one or two meals well. But what he said really upset me and has stayed with me to this day. I am reminded of what he said every time he has to deal with the DC's and it's obvious he is clueless as to how to get things done with them, he is useless around the house at any sort of DIY, in fact there are loads of things he cannot do and only one thing he really can do well which is his job. So i suppose i really resent the fact he called me what he did when in fact i am able to do lots of things besides cooking whereas all he is really good at is his job. He's the 'one trick pony' around here and i feel really angry that he had the nerve to call me that.

But i don't know if this is somehow a trigger for something from my childhood. My dad never called me anything like that, but then at the same time he was always criticising me, telling me i was lazy, that i couldn't cook and always generally putting me down and never praising anything i achieved or did well. He was even annoyed when i passed my driving test until he realised it meant he could gain something from it by using me to do errands etc for him in the car. I suppose what upsets me is that neither DH nor my dad seem to see or recognise my good points, the things i am good at, the things i have achieved. I feel DH just takes for granted the fact that i am a SAHM, he has no idea just how hard it is. My dad only used to praise me to other people when i wasn't around, and it wasn't really praise, he just used to boast about my achievements to other people, probably to make them feel bad about their own children.

For a while recently i felt my self esteem grow a little bit, but now it seems to have plummeted again.

I keep telling myself i am not going to contact my sisters again, particularly the younger one, but then i can't stop thinking about them and usually end up contacting them. And i'm sure my youngest sisters isn't thining about me in the same way. I'm sure she hardly thinks about me unless i contact her, she has her real family around her ie her SIL's etc and i feel cast aside and rejected and it feels so unfair as i know i haven't done anything wrong. But she can't feel something that simply isn't there, so i can hardly blame her. I can only blame my parents, but they are unwilling to accept any blame or responsibilty for what they have done. They don't even have the faintest idea of the loss and damage they have caused never mind accepting responsibility for it.

It all makes me feel quite down. I know it's just bloody bad luck on my part to have been born to such parents, but it's just so unfair. I know i have to accept this, but accepting you have lost something important through no fault of your own is just so very very hard.

Just had another lightbulb moment. My mother was completely in love with my dad and has never got over him. I always used to think that the love of your life was the one who got away which is why my ex was always the love of my life. I still feel he is but my husband should be. I do love him. I just wish I could be me again for a day.

Another realisation i've had is that sometimes DH might look at me in a way that makes me think he is angry/in a mood/p**d off with me. I revert to my childhood reaction whenever my dad was angry/in a mood and act tough and defiant, as if I don't care, nothing can hurt me or bother me, I'm not scared of him. Only DH is not my dad, he is not actually angry etc more likely tired/headache/overworked and so my reaction is totally inappropriate in my adult life.

I have been wondering today how i must have felt/coped as a child between the ages of around 10 (when my dad had his mental breakdown and the abuse started) and when i was around 15/16. I have quite a few memories from when i was 16 onwards but between 10 and 16 it seems to largely be a blank. And it is no coincidence that this must have been during the worst period of my dad's mental problems as i remember when i was about 18 he seemed to have got better and less angry and nasty.

I have a few memories during this time, none of them good, like the time when he left his job and boasted about how he walked out leaving me feeling upset and worried about how we would manage without money at home. But i can count the memories on one hand, so there are around 5/6 years largely unaccounted for. I'm guessing that a lot my behaviour now with DH must have originated during those years, when my dad was at his worst and before i became numb to his hatred and anger towards me.

Sometimes DS1 will have a look on his face and I will assume it means the same as when I had that look on my face as a child and it almost certainly doesn't.

I can't really bring myself to think about how the little girl i once was must have felt from the ages of 10 to 16. I was lucky in that i had a very close friend and we were inseperable, i spent loads of time at her house after school and at weekends, so i suppose i was out of the line of fire from my dad a lot of the time.

But I'm sure inside i must have been bewildered by my dad's behaviour and deeply hurt and upset at his apparent hatred and dislike of me. I remember as i got older i acted tough and as if i didn't care what my dad said or did but before that i can't remember how i felt or reacted to him. I know i must have immediately buried any painful emotions before i could feel them so they wouldn't hurt me. And my sisters were much younger than me so i had no real companionship there and of course none with my mother who always preferred my sisters over me. I think the only reason i wasn't completely miserable and lonely was because of my friend, who lived down the road from me. We were close friends from around the age of 10 til 18 when we went our seperate ways at university.

I was also an avid reader and spent a lot of my time at home with my nose buried in a book, a form of escapism i suppose from the horrors at home.

Sometimes my dad was in a good mood and we would have a nice day out as a family and i suppose we all believed in the illusion these days would create that we were in fact a happy, close, loving family. But of course it was just an illusion and before long reality would hit with a row/argument always involving my dad and often me or my mother.

I have also recently been thinking about my MIL and how, ever since i first met her, she has somehow reminded me of my dad. She is a nasty piece of work although she manages to hide it well. She once told me that she thought DH would be justfied in divorcing me because i wasn't doing his laundry. What a b***. I really hate her and only tolerate her because DD enjoys spending time with her.

Sorry for rambling on, will go now. Hope you are all doing ok today.

Have just been reading a post natal thread about how hard it is after having your first DC. It made me think about when I had DD and what a complete and utter shock to the systemm it was for me. How utterly unprepared i was and how unhappy and miserable i was. And how NONE of the people who were around me at the time noticed/recognised/saw/cared about how unhappy i was and how much i was not coping. That is DH, my mother, my father, my MIL, my FIL. NONE of these people saw that i was unhappy/depressed/had PND or if they did they didn't care.

The only person that even came close to seeing that i was having a really bad time of it was my FIL once and my MIL once vaguely suggested that i might have PND. But neither of my own parents noticed or cared that i was completely at rock bottom. DH didn't help in the slightest but i can forgive him but i can't forgive or forget my parents not noticing or caring. I wasn't on MN at the time (if it existed) so had NO help/support. GP/health visitor was useless as well.

Even now, i feel DH is on my side, but i still feel very alone. Will i feel like this for the rest of my life? I hope not but don't really see how it can change.

Hi. I would just like to ramble on a bit about a dream, well a nightmare, i had at the weekend. In the dream i had a job in an office and one day i decided i just didn't want to go in. So i didn't, but i didn't call in sick or anything, i just didn't turn up. I felt ok in the morning but as the day went on i felt increasingly worried and anxious about the fact i had just not turned up at work without any explanation. Then the phone rang and it was the office. I was sick, but in the dream when i was sick, i remember things like whole chocolate biscuits coming out of my mouth. (sorry if tmi). I knew i was sick as i was literally feeling sick with worry about work and having to go in the next day and facing my boss after not turning up the day before. I remember feeling so worried and stressed and anxious in the dream, no wonder i was actually sick.

I don't think the dream relates to my childhood as such, i think it relates to a time when i did actually do what happened in the dream, i didn't turn up for work one day without calling in and i think now i must have felt a lot of anxiety at the time but i suppressed all my feelings as they were too much to cope with. Of course i had nobody to talk to about it all, certainly not my parents, so i coped the only way i knew how, by burying any scary, intense feelings. I am absolutely amazed at how these feelings have somehow remained in my subconscious and have become conscious after all these years, albeit via a dream.

Whilst the dream was horrible, for me the fact that those long suppressed feelings were released is a good sign, another indicator that my numbness is gradually thawing.

Hi

I'm not sure whether I'm posting this in the right place so pls bear with me. My parents can be lovely, very helpful with money, practicalities etc but incredibly critical. I am currently seeing a therapist for things that happened in childhood and I'm starting to see them in a new light (we are usually very close) so much so that I don't really want to talk to them at the moment. Is this normal when you first start talking to a therapist?

Also my parents criticise me constantly, I honestly dont think they know they're doing it its so habitual. With my father he can walk in and say 'why havent you vacuumed, why hasn't DD got a vest on? why havent you fixed x, y, z?' all seriously within say 5 minutes of getting to my house. Is this normal?

Sorry if this thread is the wrong one to post on, I'd seen someone recommend it for parent probs before

sorry just to keep jumping on here when I have a problem and then disappearing.

I have moved house so my mother can't control everything I do.

But hell she's found a way round it and I am so fucking angry.

hesdoneitagain - no that isn't normal.

My mum does it as well - it belittles you and shows that anything you've done isn't good enough. Or at least that's how it makes me feel. If my mum came over I would spring clean the entire house and she would only point out the one bit I had missed. If ds goes to visit her (she doesn't visit us) she would quiz him on whether I fed him at all or had brushed his teeth etc etc. It's horrible.

Don't worry about not feeling like you belong on here - it's a rite of passage for anyone who joins this thread.

It's good you're seeing a therapist though, can be difficult.

I'm hoping to go privately now as have been waiting over 6 months to see one on NHS and I can't wait any longer.

Anyone know how to find a good therapist?

TheArmadillo

BACP have a list of counsellors.

Thanks Atilla - have found several in my area.

AN, just wanted to let you know i have read your post. It's a lot to take in so can't comment as yet but will do so once i have the chance.

Hesdoneitagain, not much time but welcome to the thread and i would like to recommend a book to you called Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. IIRC, it has a chapter on highly critical parents. I'm sure you will find it enlightening.

TheArmadillo, i would recommend looking at BACP, picking out a couple that seem appropriate and then booking an initial appointment with them. Then go with the one who seems to understand you the most or you feel most comfortable with. And if you are a couple of sessions in and it doesn't feel right, then keep looking. It took me ages to find a good counsellor and i 'interviewed' quite a few before i chose her. Remember you are the client and it is your perogative to chose the best person for you and your issues. I also recommend finding someone who has personally experienced childhood trauma/abuse themselves, they will have far more understanding than someone who has merely read up on the subject. Although there are always exceptions to this huge generalisation of course.

thanks for the advice - most of them seem to offer short initial sessions. I'll email them all and see what happens. As you say I can always stop after a couple of sessions and find someone else.

Hi ladies,
am now 5 months into my emdr sessions and my therapist finally said today that she feels the biggest of my issues is my mother.
I have tried so hard not to place everything at her door. It feels a bit wierd that I thought I was going to see her about being raped when in fact it is all so intertwined with my relationship with my mum.

I only posted because someone was talking about NHS waiting lists. I had to wait for 6 months to get the sessions with my therapist but now I am in the door I am so relieved that I can see her weekly for at least 1 year before the funding is reassessed.
IS it worht contacting the department to find out what the list is looking like at the moment? or getting your GP to nag on your behalf?

Thank you for messages of welcome.

Wanted to give a bit more background. Firstly I've ordered the books recommended - arriving tomorrow!

Parents - very close with me, speak prob 7 days a week, they have my DD one night and day a week. So far so good.

As a child I was very, very hairy and I mean VERY, face, body, everywhere. And very dark hair too. I was bullied constantly, too painful to go into. I was constantly crying at home, went to bed at 4pm most nights, wouldn't eat, self harmed from about the age of 9 and refused to go to school, making myself sick, locking myself into the bathroom etc etc. Cut long story short my parents forced me to go to school, told me off for being naughty all the time and I couldn't talk to them about what was happening to me. They were also highly critical all through my childhood.

As I've got older I've got more angry - Why didn't they 'save' me, why didn't they think 'hey shes acting pretty weird for a 9 year old, maybe somethings wrong?'. I'm seeing a therapist at the moment over all this and its making me (at this stage) really hate my parents. Also when I tried to talk to them in the past my mom just says 'you can't make me feel guilty-er than I already do about it all.' (so at least acknowledges what went on) whereas when I finally lost it and cried and told my dad everything he said he had no idea re the bullying and if he'd known he'd never have let me go through that and how sorry he was. He hugged me loads, said he was going home to discuss with my mom, and then.... HAS NEVER MENTIONED IT SINCE!!!!

Sorry to ramble. And I realise this probably sounds trivial when compared to people who have been physically/sexually abused, but I'm starting to feel like I'm going mad, everytime I say anything about my childhood at all (no matter how inocuous) my dad says 'that didn't happen, you live in a different reality to the rest of us,'

Any help out there? x

Hi Hesdoneitagain,
I am sorry for you for what you have had to endure in your youth. And now...too.

The dismissiveness from your parents, well, this isn't the first time they've patently dismissed you is it (ie: your childhood suffering was dismissed; your self-harming injuries were dismissed)? So what I want to say is it shouldn't be a big surprise to you that they dismiss you now. That doesn't help you I know; but you might want to consider recalibrating your expectations.

Why are they dismissing you? My guess is that they are crap parents. Sorry, I don't mean to offend. Crap parents can be so clueless at the depth of the consequences of the way they treat their children.

Imho, there is no excuse for being a crap parent. But there is some validation to be had for you if you have a deeper understanding of their condition/circumstances. "Condition" may be the better idea: some parents have personality disorders that make them so self obsessed that they can not honestly, sincerely consider other people (even if the other person is a child, their child!). And the other parent, partner to this defective one, is too busy coping or being the "supply" or codependent for the psycho's needs.

Pat on the back for you in facing your childhood crap. It isn't easy, or fun, or something you want to talk about much with RL friends (might be too negative). It is good and perhaps esential to have someone to talk to about it-ie.: counseling-or possibly a sibling who knows your truth and can validate you (or here on MN ). But to get past it, to heal yourself and get past it, it does need to be understood and processed and ultimately released. Yes to get beyond it, to live in the present-not the past is the goal, I think.

Great post, ActingNormal!
Hesdoneitagain-the "brainwashing" thought is a key or a big piece of the puzzle. I think it is what the parents/abusers use to train us as a filter to avoid or alter the plain truth.

My abusive Middle Sister always returns to the idea that "I am the sensitive one", which is bs-she is simply denying me the right to have feelings. That is her brainwashing me to avoid me calling her on the truth that her narcissistic superiority complex is toxic to me (and no doubt others).

Got to go, little one needs attention.

"Imho, there is no excuse for being a crap parent. But there is some validation to be had for you if you have a deeper understanding of their condition/circumstances. "Condition" may be the better idea: some parents have personality disorders that make them so self obsessed that they can not honestly, sincerely consider other people (even if the other person is a child, their child!). And the other parent, partner to this defective one, is too busy coping or being the "supply" or codependent for the psycho's needs".

I could not agree more with this particular part of TMSB's posting. This is how my parents are as well.

Hi one plus one,

My blood froze when I read your post of the 6/2 at 13.00. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I certainly could relate to a large part of it. I also felt badly let down by my parents following the birth, unprepared and lonely. I honestly felt like both sets of grandparents did not give a monkeys (still do!). The only person I could really count on was (and remains to this day) my DH (who despite coming from a family like his has remained remarkably normal!).

I was not waving but drowning. Those were very dark days for me. One book that helped me a lot at the time was "Life after birth" written by Kate Figes.

Would like to reassure you on one thing; I do not feel as alone any more. It has taken me a long time (years infact!) to get to this good place where I am today and I am a happy meerkat most of the time. I have some good friends who would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it and I would do the same for them too. I can rely on them to help me if needed; I cannot say the same for either mis parentes or my narcissitic shite faced outlaws. Mis parentes were too "busy" to attend any of DS's school plays or his sports day at Infants and Juniors. You notice these things.

I realise now I was trusted, well more like completely left by my parents to get on with it and my relationship deteriorated further with them when I met DH and left home. My relationship with them today is superficial, there is no closeness. My selfish, childfree and single brother was treated differently by them (particularly my Mum) and this remains the case to this day. They'll drop everything for him. All I ever wanted from them was their acknowledgement.

Like many others here, its only now that I am a parent myself that the full realisation of how they were and remain has hit. And it is painful.

One day though, you will feel okay. You won't feel as alone.

with best wishes

Attila

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm in a really strange place at the moment, where one minute I hate my parents and the next I am so ashamed that I could ever say anything bad about them because they are (compared to a lot of peoples) amazing. God its really weird. I've cut contact down lots, just avoiding phone calls etc at the moment.

My therapist has said that they probably never will understand or acknowledge what has happened but that we need to get to a place where I stop needing them to and can except they won't and move on. Acting Normal - As you say, the rage that I feel now I've 'raked it all up again' with the therapist is frightening but I think necessary to get it out as before I was just constantly depressed and I suffer from anxiety and OCD. Crossing fingers it gets better before it gets worse.

TMSB - I get that re your sister so much, I'm always the 'emotional one', or the 'sensitive one', I'M BLOODY NOT!!!! Its a great way of shutting someone up though to constantly say this kind of thing, eventually I start thinking 'maybe I am being too sensitive?'

Anyway - latest, Had 2 phone calls I haven't avoided. 1st one my Dad managed to tell me it was my fault my DD had been vile to me (she'd dropped some toys on the floor for the 8th time) and I'd refused to pick them up but apparently this was my fault for 'winding her up'

2nd phone call my mom was talking about someone else saying what a good mother I was, but when she recounted this tale to me she said 'She says she thinks you're a brilliant mother' IN THE MOST INCREDULOUS VOICE YOU HAVE EVER HEARD!!

Oh and they invited my violent and abusive ExH round to lunch. Nice. Thanks for that guys. If it was my DDs abousive ex I'd be waiting for him with a baseball bat

Rant over

I just want to say something regarding the "You'Re too sensitive" line, something which I have heard my entire life and now from DH since we married.
I want to say to these people that YES I AM SENSITIVE! Most women ARE sensitive. Some women are more sensitive than others. Therefore, would the people in my life please respect that fact.
But the truth is that I am probably just averagely sensitive and that their behaviour is actually atrocious, but they justify their behaviour and pass it off as me being too sensitive...
I used this in my favour recently. My dad has been itching for a visit to see me. I live in a foreign country and he'd like the free holidy. I BEGGED him to come to this country around the time I was getting maried and when I was engaged but my invites were completely snubbed, which caused a lot of humiliation for me in front of my in-laws. NOw he's changed his mind and wants to come, so I wrote him a letter using the exact reason that he had used against me all my life. I told him that living in a foreign country is highly stressful and that, as he knows, I am simply too sensitive to handle hosting him while I have small children around. I hope he caught the irony!!