"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Purpleone-thnking about it more-
your mom/dad's communication was probably they just scratching an itch-reflexive thing over holidays...I'm glad you didn't respond.

Can't remember if I posted on this thread before but my astoundingly dysfunctional parents have just made my morning and I need to write it down!
My parents divorced when I was 4 and despised each other since I was born. They are both emotionally and mentally abusive and I've not spoken to my father for 6 years or so, except at my grandad's funeral when my father took the opportunity to pick up where he left off with the threats and appearing a caring father to his family, offering his daughter an olive branch to repair the relationship blah blah blah. Nevermind that it was him that uttered the words 'you're just like your mother and I want nothing more to do with you' a couple of years previously (but at least I had a witness as my ex boyfriend was with me, he was quite shocked as I had only gone round to drop off xmas presents and was making polite smalltalk to provoke that response).
Anyway, my mother has just turned up with my brother (as arranged last night with no implication as to what it was about) and handed me and db a letter from a friend of my dads family saying that my gran has died and about what happened at her funeral. I am soooo angry as my mother is so thoughtless to carry this out in front of ds1 (4yo) when my db is hugely angry with my dad and family, and a bit unstable at the best of times. She had no idea what his reaction might be and obviously it was too much to think it through and arrange this little meeting tonight when kids in bed. So me and db did not react did not even mention what we had read, as ds1 has no idea about my father's family...
I'm probably not explaining myself very well and I hope you don't mind me offloading on this thread, will be back later as dd is wanting lunch

Do other people find that Xmas makes you feel differently? That it is important to you to feel connections with people and to feel that you have a family? Does it make you feel more inclined to forgive things that you have a niggling feeling you shouldn't just for the sake of keeping people in your life because you don't want to feel alone? Does it make you feel sorry for them if you feel they are lonely and that you have contributed to that by cutting down contact? Does it make you waver in your resolve to keep your distance? Does the guilt get to you? Then you think well they did bring this on themselves by what they did/didn't do and why should you feel guilty for their feelings when they appear not to feel guilty or take any blame for yours. You feel angry at the thought of them 'getting away with it' and some satisfaction at having 'revenge' and there being a consequence for their actions - you wanting less contact with them. This thought helps me with my guilt. Because it is Xmas I am having a heightened 'gratefulness' for the good relationships that I have and feeling I must cling on to them and very scared of losing them and feeling alone.
I know this is a mumbojumbo of thoughts just typed randomly and I don't care hahahaha. I hope some sense can be made of it.

actingnormal - Xmas makes me feel like I ought to feel like spending time with my mother, but I've only really examined my relationship with her since I've had dc and I've realised that I feel partly obligated due to guilt trips while I was a child relating to xmas access (there used to be a contest between my parents to try and guilt me and db spending xmas day with them, if we felt more guilt from our father we'd admit to her that we 'wanted' to go to his house whereupon she would do her screaming banshee act and if we hadn't told our father we would cave and stay with her. I only spent one xmas day with my father, my db stayed with my mother. Next year we swapped over).

I do feel inclined to forgive but inevitably my resolve fails as nothing ever changes, I'm too guarded with my mother to even broach the subject of my upbringing with her, let alone tell her I forgive her. I've tried before (admittedly a long time ago) and had her humiliate me in front of all her friends, then have complete amnesia the next day. She seems entirely convinced she brought me up really well and that I am a balanced individual. She honestly believes I was a typical teenager and uses me as a benchmark against my stepsisters. No mother, I used to sit in my room because I had no life and only existed. My stepsisters went out, got drunk etc, the kind of things I wish I'd done with hindsight.
I am not afraid of being alone, although I have a lovely dp now! When I was younger I was stuck in the parent-child relationship with her as the child (I still am now to an extent) so would never have thought to leave her. I've never felt responsible for my father, I assume I just reflected back his lack of responsibility . I do feel guilty that if she broke up with her dp she would be lonely and I was somehow responsible. But it will always be my door she knocks on first.
ATM, I am dealing with her by keeping her as an acquaintance and chatting superficially where possible although her sister has just died and I seem to have become her sole emotional support which I hate. I was always her shoulder to cry on, I don't know if anyone else has this but I find her quite repulsive when she starts blubbing, she used to throw herself at me and sob into my shoulder when I was really young over whatever my father was up to (usually witholding maintainance, taking her to court etc). But yes, I agree about getting satisfaction at the revenge of having less emotional contact with her. I feel I'm starting to turn the situation around so I call the shots. Then I feel uncomfortable at the thought of being controlling, then I remind myself it's not possible to have a normal functional relationship with her.

I don't feel at all guilty. Perhaps it's because I know my 2 sisters are still running round after my parents and treating them like they are the victims in all of this. I honestly don't think my parents think it is a loss on their part that I have cut them off, the only loss they feel I am sure is that of their 2 grandchildren. Even when I warned them i was going to cut them off all they were concerned about was missing out on seeing their grandchildren, they never once mentioned that they would miss me/loved me/wanted me to stay in touch. So no, I don't feel the slightest bit of guilt and like AN I feel I have had a tiny bit of revenge on them by the fact that they are missing out on their 2 absolutely gorgeous, adorable and delightful grandchildren. I have always felt they preferred my 2 sisters to me anyway and I am sure they are actually quite glad to be rid of me; the only fly in the ointment, as I've said being the collateral loss of their grandchildren. And even that loss I am sure will gradually be lessened over the years to the point where they don't mind so much once my sisters start having children of their own, the youngest one having had her first 6 months ago.

What I have been realising recently is the more subtle and less, I suppose, explosive, feelings that are constantly being triggered in me, usually by DH. Eg I always seem to have this feeling that he thinks I'm stupid and is being patronising and whenever i point it out to him he always denies it and i am sure he is being honest. But i can never seem to shake off this feeling and i have realised now that is a feeling from childhood, caused by my dad always being mocking of anything i did and making it obvious that he thought i was stupid/useless/lazy/incompetent. I realise now that i always seem to have this battle going on in my head where one side is always telling me I am stupid/lazy/useless and the other is telling me I'm not. And it is blindingly obvious to me now that of course my 'inner critic' is actually my dad. I never once as a child felt that he recognised my abilities or intelligence or if he did he felt threatened by these qualities and did his best to try and 'quash' them and undermine me.

I was always made to feel that i was lazy and that feeling has stayed with me and yet, logically i know I am not lazy. I have worked or had some sort of job since i was 14, starting with a paper round. Admittedly now I am a SAHM i find i hate housework and find it tedious and boring and occasionally I just can't be bothered with it and the place does get messy, but i hardly think that amounts to an overall laziness on my part. I make a real effort with the DC's and do loads of stuff with them and to me that is far more important than housework.

The trouble my dad's subtle and not so subtle constant undermining and criticism, coupled with his complete lack of aknowledgment and recognition of my positive qualities has left me with such low self esteem and self confidence that any time DH says something even bordering on criticsm or implying I am stupid it affects me in a big way. And once again I was starting to resent DH for thinking i was stupid when the real culprit was, as usual, my dad.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I am sure my dad has paranoid personality disorder. And when he had his mental breakdown when i was 10 i think he suffered some form of psychosis which eventually lessened but was never 'treated' and so developed into PPD. I remember my grandfather (my dad's dad) not long before he passed away went a bit 'berserk' and I am sure my dad is going the same way. Alice Miller quite rightly, IMVHO, says, that childhood traumas if left unresolved and unintegrated lead to mental illness in adulthood which gets progressively worse with age and my dad is a perfect example of that.

I'm sure something happened in his life when I was 10 that triggered a whole raft of feelings from his own childhood, a lot of anger, bitterness, resentment etc and he directed all these feelings towards me and my mum and sisters but he never sought to examine his feelings and discover their root cause and so these feelings have never been resolved and still with him to this day. And it is his paranoia that caused him to accuse me of hacking into his emails and various other ridiculous things.

I am curious now as to where he is directing his paranoid feelings now that i have removed myself from the firing line. Perhaps my mother is now his target or perhaps my middle sister. I am sure it is not my youngest sister as she is his 'good' girl. Or perhaps he is directing them inwards and causing himself to get ill. I don't really care I suppose.

I've also found today that my half sisters who I have never met are on Facebook. I feel tempted to make contact but know it is a crap idea. I also have their email addresses which my birthfather accidentally gave me by forwarding a joke email to multiple people including me and them so that is more temptation.

I've seen photos of them and they look like me. I saw somewhere, can't remember where, on the web, birthfather did something that somehow allowed me to see, conversations between them and their mother on the web and they were all so warm and loving and affectionate with each other. She seems like a lovely mother and they seem normal. I feel a childish sense of unfairness that why when I found my birthmother and met her, could she have not been more like my birthfather's wife instead of being cold and competitive and manipulative and game playing. I know hardly anything about birthfather's wife but just get the impression she is nice. Birthfather seems to talk about her with contempt though and still seems preoccupied with my birthmother who I feel does not deserve this attention.

I imagine how nice it would be to be part of their family and to have sisters who were like me who I could connect with. But I get the feeling from little things that have been said at different times, that their mother feels angry about me and wants nothing to do with me. She referred to my birthmother as a bitch (probably deservedly from some of the things she did). I would feel huge guilt if I caused any friction in their family so I know I shouldn't try to contact them. It is so tempting though as I have such a longing to connect to family.

I'm feeling bitter and excluded. I feel really unimportant compared to them. Birthfather has seemed to show off about his daughters' careers in his very infrequent emails. My career was crap and I don't feel they would be impressed by me being a SAHM now. My impression is that they are much more intelligent and confident than me and would think I am stupid. I know their mother has every right not to want me in her life but I also feel angry because I have done nothing wrong to her and the situation isn't my fault. When my birthfather visited me the one and only time, I got the impression he had done it in secret and that it would be difficult for him to visit me again, which he never has.

I have to think of their feelings and not contact them but none of them care about my feelings and probably haven't thought about me at all. I don't really exist.

I shouldn't be thinking about all this stuff. It has flared up today. I shouldn't be so self pitying. I have a good DH and two children and a lovely family life of my own and some friends, but this stuff still gets to me sometimes. Sorry for going on and being bloody pathetic.

Hi AN. Like you just said for me this has been a much better xmas than last year, still felt a bit lonely but not anywhere near as bad as last year.

I completely understand the 'triggering' situation you have described. I have had similar (different actual facts of course) myself. And it seems to take me a long time, as in a good few days, to really fully understand what childhood feelings were triggered for me, what were the circumstances in my childhood that caused those feelings etc. Perhaps it's the same with you? If the incident just happened this morning, I'm sure you will mull it over for a few days and eventually get to the bottom of it, not just intellectually but emotionally.

We sound so similar, I am always more angry at DD than I ever am at DS. Perhaps I am indentifying with DS as the more vulnerable DC. Even though i was the eldest sibling, i was the one who was picked on and teased, tormented and bullied by my middle sister. So perhaps DD brings up feelings in me that were originally created by my middle sister.

I can relate to what you say about finding it hard to process your true feelings from childhood about your brother because you feel guilty and responsible for his happiness. I have had the same problem and it is very hard to almost give yourelf permission to feel the anger and rage and hatred towards your sibling that you have buried inside. I think I somehow managed to do it by really spending some time thinking about what my middle sister in particular did, how she treated me, how mean she was and also imagining myself as a small child, being tormented by her. Perhaps you could try something similar?

I still feel some anger towards DH and I don't know if I'm being triggered. I feel he is so quick to criticise me when i sleep in at the weekend, having spent the whole week being disturbed at night by one or other of the DC's. By the weekend I am exhausted and I need to catch up on sleep. So of course DH has to get up with the DC's at the weekend and I thought he did this willingly knowing that I had let him get a good night's sleep all week so he can think straight at work. But no, it turns out whilst he does get up and mind the DC's in the morning at the weekend, he does so grudgingly and during a row a while ago he had a go at me for sleeping in at the weekend.

He really upset me; I suppose I had thought that him getting up with the DC's at the weekend was an acknowledgment by him that I needed a lie in, and that he cared about me i suppose. But it turns out all the time he resents me lying in. I don't know why this has upset me so much. I suppose because I have no family of my own, I rely on DH to step in when i need a break from the kids or some rest etc, and it makes me feel sad that he will let me have a rest but does so grudgingly. Sometimes I really do think i would be better off without him and the only reason i don't want to split up is that it would break our DC's hearts if DH didn't live at home. That really is the only reason.

Sorry I'm going off at a bit of a tangent here.

AN I'm sorry but i can't relate to the things you have said about your parents over xmas as I haven't seen mine at all. But i hope some of the others who are still in contact with their parents will perhaps be able to respond to you.

I'm sorry you're feeling a bit down today, perhaps your triggering event in the morning has caused more feelings to be released and they are slowly making their way into your conscious mind and that is what is causing your wobble today? Please ignore me if I sound mad but that has been my experience many a time now.

AN have just read your second post and you are not being pathetic. I completely understand your feeling of wanting to 'belong' and to feel connected to somebody in your family. That is normal need of every child and since your need was not fulfilled in childhood it remains to this day. And so does mine.

I think this is why i have been so relentless in my pursuit of a relationship with my sisters. Only now we have a relationship of sorts it is nothing like what i wanted or imagined. I told all this to my counsellor and she said something that has stayed with me, she said that "You have sisters everywhere" which sounds a bit corny. But what she meant was that there are many other people out there with whom I can make a connection and feel i belong and this is where, for me, this charity i mentioned earlier comes in. Because i feel i belong to the group of people who are known as 'survivors' (ie survivors of childhood abuse) and i feel if i am able to meet and talk to some of these people in real life i will feel a connection with them or at least some of them because we have a shared childhood history. I think i will feel more of a connection to these people (who i have yet to meet) because we have had similar childhood experiences, whereas my sisters and I have had completely different childhoods even though we have the same parents.

Does any of that make sense?

Oneplusone and AN -are any of you in contact with any family at all?

My parents was the last link left. Lots of family still alive, but my parents vitriol has pretty much driven them all away. My DDs have missed out. They have never met their great grandmother. There are aunts, uncles and cousins all over the shop...that they have never met.
The DDs often cry. Especially when they hear that their freind is off to 'nannys for dinner'.
I even Facebooked a person with the same surname as me. ( rare surname) and it turned out he was into genealogy and we shared the same g g g grandfather. But he lives very close to my parents. And guess what. We've never met him still, yet my parents have all the lovely fucking parties and get togethers.

God, this time of year makes me feel so fucking bitter. But oneplusone, you make so much sense in your last post.
My very valued friends are my family now. I often wish it could be different, but it isn't. Even with exh's family. They all had a bust up too. He turned JW, his sister fell out and his aunt stopped talking (Jewish). His parents have now had enough (DDs other grandparents) and have emigrated to Spain.

I know I feel lonely. But I feel so sorry for those kids.

Hello everyone. I posted on one of these threads before and whilst I recieved some great advice Im still veering between thinking that I shouldnt be in contact with my family, and then thinking 'but theyre still my family'. I feel obliged to do the 'right' thing but it seems thats never appreciated anyway.

Christmas brings it all to the fore I feel. Yet again we drive to them (250 miles or so), swap presents and go home. This is just before xmas. Xmas day comes and I dont hear from them. Did anyone even like their presents? I didnt want to give in and get in touch with them but I did. Cos otherwise it wouldve been 'why didnt you phone us?' and the guilts back at my door. Instead of phoning I texted. I didnt want to have that same old feeling as if Im taking up too much of their time, and hearing their 'put on' jollyness. I got a little text back 'happy xmas 2 u 2, prezzies great thanx' I dont even think it was my mum that texted. Maybe I shouldnt have expected anymore than that. They all knew we were ill but havent asked if the children etc are ok, I havent heard from them since the xmas day text.

My sister is 10 and my dad took out a loan to buy her a laptop for xmas. I'll admit Im angry and jealous. She is incredibly spoilt and I realise times change but things like this remind me of just how differently I had it. By that age I was already used to hiding from bailiffs and having my mum crying over money worries. I remember the blokes walking around the house making lists of what they were going to take. I was so scared and couldnt sleep for worrying. It felt like it was all on me. I wouldnt go on school trips, or to friends birthday parties etc so that I wouldnt have to ask for money to pay/for presents etc So Id never ask for such expensive things, even for xmas. My sister now doesnt understand the value of anything, and I worry about how my dad will pay for this loan. I know its crazy, and Im angry but I guess both parents decided they would do this so what can I do? Nothing.

I used to have ppl take the piss all the time because of my clothes and shoes etc. I remember one xmas my mum bought me a jumper that I really liked. I was really pleased cos I felt a bit more 'normal' like the others. Unfortunately it didnt fit but instead of exchanging for a bigger size my mum just sold it to her cousin for my cousins present! That was embarrassing because everyone knew. Things like this always stick in my mind despite being ages ago (Im 26, brother 21, sister 10). I didnt have clean clothes to wear each day - not underwear etc either. I had no idea that generally people showered/bathed each day! Mine and my brothers teeth were awful, poor diets etc.

When I left school I went to college to do art, a subject I loved and was good at. Right from the start my parents were on at me to leave - I 'wouldnt get anywhere with art' plus I 'needed to earn my keep' I didnt know at the time that my mum wouldve still been able to claim whilst I was in education. That obv wasnt enough for her. I was already eating at a friends house so as not to cause her the extra money. I eventually dropped out, I was beaten down, being told I was no good anyway. Now my brothers girlfriend is at the same college, doing the same course and my mum delights in telling me ''ooh T is so arty, you should see her work'' etc etc Id have loved her to be that proud of me. I dont understand why they hated me so much. I know I cant explain well here, but Ive always felt the odd one out. Ive tried bringing things up but Im told to 'fucking grow up' - like now Im in my 20's none of that should matter. Well it does bloody matter. They dont see how theyve screwed me up. How can someone care so little about their own daughter, and be so different towards other siblings?

My dad has a blood clot in his leg and was seeing a consultant etc but nothing has come of it. Hes scared of hospitals etc and mum reckons hes 'ignored' or forgotten appointments etc. Im scared. I know we used to get on terribly, he used to hit me, once he did it outside in front of everyone at a 'fete' type thing. My friends saw etc Im convinced this is going to kill him, a friend lost her grandad a while ago due to this. Ive tried being concerned, Ive tried scaring mum into a response but nothing. Im carrying so much worry around all the time and its dragging me down.

Im homesick so much, I miss the seaside terribly and I want to move back eventually but I just dont know whats best anymore. Im offered no support. Some ppl that read a thread of mine when I was preg may recall - there were concerns that my baby would have a blockage in her throat and so I had to deliver in hospital. I was terrified that she wouldnt make it, and I called my mum to see if she would come and stay to look after ds and be there for us. She doent work etc has no other commitments. I explained everything and she told me that she 'couldnt just drop everything'. I thought not even for your unborn granddaughter? It said it all and dp was angry, I was upset. Dp would pick her up etc I just needed her here and she couldnt do that for me. To be honest it almost helped me come to terms with things - shes never been someone that you can rely on (unless youre her best friend). It kills me to feel like this, I picture her face and the fun times we had etc and I wonder if Im possibly talking about this same person.

I resign myself to the fact that this is how things are, I know I need to let go of the past but I mourn what I couldve achieved if I was encouraged to grow. As things are, Im generally too scared to step outside my door and I have the short fuse of my mum. I want to be a better parent to my children, not someone who uses their fists so easily. I dont want my children to be scared of me.

Im currently on a course, I thought it was time to think of what I want to do with my life. Im enjoying it but my family show no support, dont ask me what its about or how Im doing. Im starting to wonder if Im up to doing it anyway once Im qualified. I have no confidence.

I dont think I want to try counselling again just yet.

Sorry for long post and if some of it is rambling, dd is shouting for a feed xx

dillinger

(((((((dillinger)))))))

Guilt is a useless emotion, your parents have never shown any real remorse for their actions towards you have they?. Think what you describe is a problem that many people who have come from such dysfunctional families face, their parents fall well short of being decent healthy functioning human beings yet the children now adults still want to receive their approval and love. Its very hard to get your head around.

I would not criticise you at all if you decided to cut your toxic parents out of your life for good. You may ultimately decide to do that.

You have insight though which is something your parents have never had or will have; empathy and a desire not to do the same by your children. That is a huge step forward.

I am glad you are doing your course; of course you can do it!. Tell me about your course, what are you doing?. I wannna know!!. Its your parents that have instilled this lack of self belief in you. I learn Italian at college (three years in now) and my ILs and parents have never once asked me about that either. Y'know if only you could have seen the look on my face when I got my certificate, well I was well chuffed!.

I would suggest counselling if only to unravel and unpick all this pain that they have caused you. Reclaim your life. I know you don't want that yet but I would urge you to talk with a counsellor. BACP is a good place to start in that regard.

I think you have a crisis of confidence primarily caused by what your parents did. They fell well short and failed you miserably.

I've pretty much decided on minimal contact with my narcissistic inlaws and my BIL no longer talks to us anyway thank god (he is also a narcissist). I saw the ILs at Christmas (DH and I received separate Christmas cards yet again!) and if I don't see them much now till next Christmas, well I'm happy.

I've also had the "well I can't come over now" from my Mum (who doesn't work) when I've been at my wits end with tiredness when DS was a baby. Well sod her then. You end up making your own support but its bloody hard. And its taken me years to get to where I am now, in the early days I was not waving but drowning.

With best wishes

Attila x

Thankyou for replying. I agree about the guilt thing - if I dont visit them I feel guilty, if I do visit them I feel guilty that I couldve stayed longer! I never feel that Ive done enough, or that Im good enough. I remember one thing though they used to be pleased about was that Id eat all of my food! I believe this caused problems - ok Im not hugely overweight, maybe a stone or so but even now I will continue to eat until my plate is cleared, despite feeling full. I cant bear to waste anything. Its one thing I remember being praised for. Then when I got to about 14/15 or so my father started to be awful, he saw me having a sandwich for dinner one day and started calling me a fat slag etc. It was just a sandwich and all Id had/would have for the day. I was a size 10 then too as Id stopped eating proper meals.

I had a lovely hv when I had my son, we used to talk for ages. I told her of all this, and she asked me if I felt my mum was jealous of me? - Id moved away, had a family and a partner who helped with things, cared etc. It was a thought that hadnt entered my head before. I sometimes wonder if it could be true.

I stopped telling them anything because Id get that feeling afterwards that Id wished I hadnt! I didnt tell them I was having driving lessons, new jobs etc. I kinda wish I hadnt told them about the course Im doing. Wouldve been better to tell them when Im qualified. I just wanted them to say ooh well done Im pleased youre doing this. Im doing reflexology and should be qualified in october. When I told mum she just kinda gave me 'that' look, I think they expect me to drop out anyway.

I always get the 'when are you coming down next?' - they dont come to me unless we pay their coach travel and even then its only my mum and sister that come. They havent for over a year, mum always says she hasnt got the money - nor have we but we would save. Im not paying anymore. My dad and brother came up once when Id been gone about 6 months or a year or so and thats it. So if I dont go to them Id never see them. Thats hard and leads to the obligation feelings I get around xmas etc. Mum is the doting grandma if her friends are about, quite a diferent story when theyre not. As soon as we get there we have to go shopping to buy our own food but if they come here I like to try and be a good host(?)

Learning italian sounds great. Theres so much I want to do but again I just dont feel capable. I passed my driving test in feb at 37 weeks preg (didnt tell anyone, failed 6 years previous and then left it) but I wont drive anywhere. Cant even bring myself to back the car off the drive! lol Id like to learn to play my guitar (had it for years) and learn sign language. Lots of other things too lol I think I should make a list and aim for some things.

I know I should try for counselling. I spoke to my gp over a year ago about cbt but nothing came of it, he suggesting counselling and I was going to but then after speaking to the woman on the phone I didnt want to see her. Im wondering now if I have burnt my bridges with that!

dillinger (((((((hugs)))))), so much of what you said applies to me too. The unfairness of being treated differently from siblings for no apparent reason really hurts.

I'm sorry I haven't got time for a long post right now but I just wanted to ask why you don't feel you want to see a counsellor right now? Have you had bad experiences in the past? Or finances? Sorry if i'm being nosy but seeing one has helped me so much, I would urge you to reconsider. And to seek out someone who is right for you and fully understands the issues of childhood abuse/neglect and trauma.

If you really don't want to see a counsellor have you read any books? Such as Toxic Parents by Susan Forward, The Drama by Alice Miller? I would also highly recommend Alice Miller's website.

It's a long hard journey you are embarking on, but it will do you the world of good and we are all here to support you along the way. x

Purpleone, I have cut off my parents but am still in contact with my 2 sisters although we hardly see each other rarely. I too have masses of extended family, none of whom I have seen since cutting off my parents. I have missed quite a few weddings and gatherings, but only because I knew my parents would be there and i never want to see them again. I don't think my parents have bad mouthed me to any of the extended family, but i'm sure some of them must think i am awful for not seeing my parents. I feel bad for my DC's too, that they are missing out on so many cousins etc. But I hope to remedy that in the coming years, I intend to invite family members over to our place and gradually introduce them to my DC's. I haven't felt ready to do that until now, but am hoping 2009 will be the year I start to rebuild my life a bit more.

Hi, have posted on a seperate thread entitled 'a continuation of inlaw problems.Please help.(long,sorry).' This gives a bit of background (sorry I'm not entirely sure how to do a link, if anyone wants to tell me.....). Not really sure whether this is the right place to post but I come here on the recommendation of Attila, who I have to say gives very good advice and has been a bit of a godsend.

The email from dh's grandfather has put quite a downer on our positive attitude for the new year. I'm not sleeping a wink with thinking about it all the time and although dh is sleeping it is troubled sleep. I know this as I lay awake watching him dreaming with his hand on his head as if he has the weight of the world on his mind. It's an awful, awful situation. Dh feels hurt and completely let down by his parents and grandparents. I feel so terribly guilty that Dh has lost his family just because they dislike me and won't even tolerate me just for his sake.

We have both realised that and more importantly Dh has come to accept that his parents are very toxic people and that he is never going to get the apology that he wants/deserves from them. It still doesn't stop Dh feeling an incredible sense of loss. He doesn't really have any other family (except cousins who are being used to relay false infomation that has been fed to them knowing that they will tell Dh).

Dh is so angry (something that has taken 2 years for him to do) with the last email that his grandparents have sent to him, that he has decided to once and for all wash his hands of his parents and his grandparents. Rightly or wrongly he wants to reply to the email but lay down a few home truths and tell them that he will not tolerate this type of behaviour. He wants to tell them he is washing his hands of them and that they won't be able to contact him again as he has changed his mobile number (we've never told them our home number and it's ex directory) and will be barring all their emails in future.

I know that most will think he should just ignore them but he seems to have a new kind of inner strength in terms of standing up to them. All his life he has been controlled by his parents and somehow I think that by him feeling like he has made the last stand, will help him on some way (iyswim?).

I'm wondering if he's gonna need some kind of counselling in future. Any thoughts on this subject will be gratefully recieved.

Can I hide out here for a bit please?

I'm back!

Hi Nab, how you doing? Someone giving you a hard time?

Hi Mampam Briefly seen your posts re your in laws...your dh's grandparents brought up one of your in laws, so now your dh knows why they are the way they are...my heart wrenched reading that email they sent to him...esp the 'happy times' pic...your poor dh. He's doing great standing up to them by removing contact, he could (and do I struggle with this all the time) reply and say everything, but it won't change one thing...if they could understand they would have by now...how old is he and how many more chances do they need to be the parents/grandparents he needs? Councelling can help come to terms with it all, book reading is good, coming on this thread (still no men on this thread, he's more than welcome!) to vent is really good. Support from any mates he has (less likely I guess with him being male), your support is invaluable to him.

Giving what advice I can give from my sitution that could be applied to your dh, its 3 years next month that I split from my mother, and things are much better, I see her behaviour much more clearly now, not fogged by her being 'special' and being a 'mother'. I'm with a healthy set of friends, I'm definately in recovery. Not sure I've completely accepted I will never have the last word with my parents or sister, I still have an urge to force them to see what they did, at the moment fighting the urge to tell my uncle what they did, but resisting, I get the feeling that although he has not spoken of it all too me, just sending joke emails, my mother did say he and my aunt basically were agreeing with things she said/showed them I had put in my letter...which makes me suspisious of them and any motives they have for staying in contact. Want to yell at them too what happened and its not me being a bit sensitive, but as I thought to myself at 4.21 this morning...and about the same time yesterday morning too...whats the point? (then proceeded to think about what I would say in an email for the next 2 and a half hours... ). To me being in contact with my uncle's is too high risk, I feel they will not understand, my dad and his brothers had issues with their mum and dad, yet stayed in contact, they all had issues (some big) with each other but 'stuck together'. Its what families do y'know... Not sure if any of that is of use but basically...what is the point talking to people without the courage to have insight into their own behaviour?

Anyways onto me (again!). I'm doing well. So far as I know my pregnancy is still unknown to my family as a whole and its great, nearly stress free compared to being pg with dd. I don't feel guilty (like last time) or bad or childish (something councellor would have said!) for not telling them. I feel I'm putting myself and my family first, as my parents and sister are incapable of putting my well being first and that of my baby and child I will take care of us myself. I have no contact with toxic friends, just the two good ones. Had some ups and downs with dd over hols but I recognise now very quickly where I am going wrong and am putting it right and not beating myself up about it (too much, I get twinges of guilt but battle on by and keeping up the improvements in my own behaviour). And glories of all glories...usually contact from my mother is every 6 weeks...I last had a letter from her in september (looking back looked like a last ditch attempt at making me see my behaviour as 'pure spitefulness' and funniest of all she's been the 'best friend I ever had' and the postcard before that full of woe 'I will be here for you till I pass from this earth'). I got one card at beginning of decemeber for dd, (presume she thinks I will read, she should presume otherwise I don't invade my dd's privacy when it comes to her relationship with gp's) and that was IT! Its been wonderful. At last, she's leaving me alone, just all I've ever wanted from my first memories 'stop being mean, leave me alone'. My sister let down the side...this year she sent a gracious letter forgiving me for my hurtful behaviour (she called me stupid fat and ugly and humilated me endlessly as a child/teenager/adult) she didn't specify what the behaviour was...so must guess me meeting dh and having dd. She sent a bday card 'the door is always open' alla mothers angelic/saintlike side. Then in december a xmas card 'to the xxxx family' 'from xxxxx'. Yep I really want you back in my life now...she has never acknowledged dh or dd apart from as 'family' ie ally and family. Tis a bitter pill to swallow when the person you told endlessly you were better than ends up better off than you...

Anyway, just wanted to share those bits of contact with you all...not been dwelling on them which is good. Must just stop dwelling on converting uncle...will never happen!!

Only meant to come on for two minutes...but with first day back at playgroup for dd I have time to myself!

May be back on later (could be weeks!!) when I have this baby, dh wants to be at the birth which means dd will have to be looked after, possibly overnight at my good friends house...and I'm struggling with the guilt...what if she needs me? Never spent a night away from her

Right off now, to eat chocolate (for the baby you understand), wash up, clean litter trays , and ring bob the builder to sort out our roof and chase all the other workmen who seemed to have disapeared from the face of the earth .

Love to allxxxxxxxxx

NAB, Hide? From a person? From thoughts about a specific thing? Are you ok?

I wonder if you very supportive people here would mind if I posted something about my childhood. I'm worried about jumping in because many of you here are dealing with such very difficult situations, but I'm not sure of a better place to try to talk about this.

My parents were good to me and my siblings, but poisonous, truly poisonous, to oneanother, and I feel I can't get a handle on it, don't know how to think about it, because my memories are fragmented, and because as adults we have never discussed it. It was pretty much unspoken at the time too.

Both of them were vile in the relationship, but my father was also violent. I hate him for that but I often found and find myself hating my mother, the victim, which is uncomfortable.

The final piece of violence (that I remember) was this: I am about 15, I ask my mother if she can help with something or other. She says she can?t help. ?I have this cracked rib, you see.? I am angry with her for telling me but I listen as she goes on with the whole story. She had driven to pick dad up from the station late one evening. It was near to his birthday (40th?). She moves over as usual to let him in the driving seat. He drives her to a lonely spot. He says that she has ruined his life and he is going to kill her. They struggle and her rib is cracked. Her right arm is fractured too? Or was that a different occasion? He starts to strangle her and she loses consciousness. Dad panics and drives her to hospital. The police are involved and a charge of attempted murder is brought. An injunction is secured so that dad has to live away from home. Later, my mother drops the charges.

Lots of earlier episodes:

I have a photographic image from the time when I was about three(?) of my parents on the stairs. My father is standing over my mother, who is lying down. He is pulling her. By the hair? My an arm? Pulling her upstairs or pulling her downstairs?

Another photographic image from much later. I was about nine or ten. My parents are in the kitchen. My father is pulling my mother about. She is wearing an orange dressing gown. I and my brother and sister are standing in the hall. My sister is shouting that she will call the police.

My mother is telling me about some violence the night before. She says that she had to hold up an ornamental knife we had to keep him away and stop him hurting her. She says that she sometimes wants us to stay up at night, because nothing can happen while we are still there.

My mother is telling me about some piece of violence from a long time ago. She says that dad had been sorting out cigarette cards (which you could collect to earn points that translated into money to spend on catalogue goods). He had lots of them arranged in piles and my mother came in and knocked them all over. He hit her and knocked her out briefly. She says to me ?Poor dad; he was so worried at what he had done.? When she told me, I wondered if she had really been knocked out or had just pretended. I also suspected that she had knocked the cards over on purpose. I have no idea if my suspicions were correct, but the fact that I had them shows that I saw some manipulativeness in my mother?s behaviour.

Many, many occasions of lying in bed late at night and listening, straining to hear, an argument downstairs. Poisonous low tones. Loud voices, sometimes crashing about, sounds of possible violence. Always waiting for the violence to start. One time going down angrily and telling them to be quiet. One time hearing violence (hearing what exactly?) and piling down the stairs to make him stop.

I'm sorry this is so long. But I want to get an angle on this. It is all so unspoken and unprocessed. I want to know whether it was really bad, or just ordinary. I want to know whether I can 'blame' it for my current depression. I want to know whether I should speak with my sister about it. And I want to know how to relate to my father as he becomes older and more in need of care. He has this strange intransigence which can cause him to perceive things in an almost deluded way ? he has never ever acknowledged any violence, perhaps thinking we don?t know anything about it, and if I asked him about it he would hector and dominate with some weird theory that put my mother entirely in the wrong.

God Threadworm, they've scrambled your mind good and proper! They want you to think things were normal so they don't have to face up to the fact that they did wrong. It doesn't sound at all normal to me! You have a right (and a need) to talk to whoever you want about it. I think you CAN blame your depression on it as well. You suppressed your feelings about it because you wanted to feel your childhood was normal and your parents wanted you to feel it was normal and suppressed strong feelings lead to depression. It is obvious that your dad did wrong but your mum also did wrong by keeping a man like that in her children's lives, and also making you aware of his violence instead of protecting you from thoughts that are too difficult for a child to handle.

Thank you ActingNormal. Just having a response from you makes me feel tearful, because it is an acknowledgement that it did actually happen.

I want to talk to my sister about it a lot. I want us to pool our memories so that we have something objective, something real, about a past that kind of officially didn't happen.

I don't think I could ever speak to my father though. And my mother died a few years ago.

I know I was harsh abuot her in my last post. I was speaking about my feelings towards her as a child, but I pretty much carried on feeling that way and it would be foolish to deny it. It is really hard to combine respect for her as a victim, with criticism of her for various things. I felt empty -- or, even more shamefully, slightly relieved, when she died. That is awful.

Threadworm, seen other posts of yours elsewhere and thought you needed to be here. Okay, so would you accept that behaviour to a friend? To your child when married? Thought not. Cause of your depression...likely yes. Sounds like you are just starting up in this process of working out what was right and what was wrong...well done. One thing about myself that may help...I used to feel phsically sick at the thought of having children. Eventually I had a realisation...it was not the having children bit that bothered me...it was the way my father treated my mother...humiliated her constantly, verbally abusive, shouting at her, encouraging me and sister to join in...that's what made me feel physically sick. The violence in your house was real, and involved the police, I would guess it had a big impact on you...and you will find this out as you start processing all that happened.

Do you think your dad is the insightful kind of person that would be able to acknowledge his own failings and apologise?

No need to feel ashamed that you were relieved when your mother died...given your history surely relief would be a natural reaction? Just as your anger is at her being a victim. I can see many complex reasons why you feel that way.

Thank you Ally90 -- for making feel that it is ok to be on this thread and for sharing your memories.

Is my father insightful? It has gradually dawned on me that his lack of insight into people is bordering on mental illness. He sees things entirely in his own way, in a way that makes people who have crossed him seem evil. This also makes it dreadful to be cared for by him, because he 'knows' what is right and will be overcontrolling, domineering.

And thank you too for the final thouhts in your susequent posts.

(I am very aware that this thread has a long history and that both of you have probably posted about probs worse than my own, so I'm sorry to be demanding your sympathy just now.)

you so need to be here because your apologising already for being here...its the initiation ceremony

Look up borderline personality disorder...there are various personality disorders and everyone could tick one or two boxes for various ones (I know I can...borderline, narcassitic, obcessive!) but when this affects your ability to deal with life and reality...some people are 'low functioning' ie in care, some, like most of our parents are 'high functioning' they can function in society still, but usually the family suffers the mental illness. I suspect in the case of my mother my being there kept her high functioning as she could scapegoat me...however with me gone she has no where to put those strong emotions so I suspect she is heading more towards low functioning.

I suggest you vent a bit more...there is a bit more too all this, isn't there?...your parents could not have been abusive just to each other...ever heard of not just emotional abuse, but emotional neglect. Google that too.