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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

1001 replies

oneplusone · 09/08/2008 17:07

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

OP posts:
oneplusone · 13/10/2008 14:11

Think I'm going to slightly distance myself from my last long term friend. Things she has said during our various conversations have been bothering me and I can't seem to forget them.

A few times when we have spoken about my family situation she has asked whether my parents would have any legal right to try and see my children as grandparents. I always found it really upsetting and somehow disloyal whenever she mentioned this, but am not really sure why. I have no idea why she would even ask such a question when surely she knows how it would distress me to even consider such a possibility. It leads me to beleive that she has never even tried to imagine how I must be feeling right now and surely as a 'friend' who i have known for over 20 years, who supposedly cares about me, i could have expected a little bit of empathy/compassion/understanding? Or is that too much to expect?

I really have no idea what is reasonable anymore to expect from anyone, i suppose the answer is to expect nothing and then i won't be disappointed. But i can't seem to do that. I try and be a loyal and supportive friend and I expect the same in return, and I don't think i can change in that respect.

I feel let down by my friend and when i think about it she has hardly been supportive or in any way understanding. In fact she always seems to me to be more concerned about my parents feelings than me. When i was talking to her a few days ago, for the first time ever i found her boring, and i have never felt like that before when talking to her. Perhaps it was just because i was really tired and just wanted to go to bed, but i don't think so. I think i have suddenly 'detached' from her and instead of being blind to her flaws and actually rather in awe of her i am actually seeing her for what she is. She is not a nasty person as such, but she is not particularly sensetive in what she says to others and i suppose that is where the problem arises. In the past her insensetive comments probably completely passed over my head, but because i now have a raised level of awareness, i am noticing them a lot more.

I did tell her that some of her comments upset me and she apologised and we have agreed we won't talk about my parents anymore.

It comes back to what I have read in many of the books about all this, many people re-assess all their relationships and often end many of them and build new ones with new people. It's a scary thing to do, especially this particular friend, we have been through lots together and have lots of happy memories, but i suppose we have just grown in different directions. She is not in a long term relationship and doesn't have children but i don't think that excuses her lack of sensetivity or lack of support or loyalty towards me. I don't feel like cutting her off altogether, but i am going to keep my distance from now on.

The fall out from this thing is huge, a ripple effect i suppose. Makes me feel very sad.

OP posts:
smithfield · 13/10/2008 16:43

hi Guys

Haven't been on for a while as Ive had no computer (probably not a bad thing as I think I'm on here a bit too much at times)

Looks like there has been some reealy interesting stuff, but Ive only skimmed through and need some time to read and absorb the posts.

My biggest hurdles recently have been the passing of some big birthdays (younger db and sis turned 30) and dad had his b'day day before that.

I Uhmmed and ahhed for ages about sending cards, but no-one had had any contact with me in a year and I decided not to send anything. I did send a card to my dad from my dcs' and had no response (which is as I expected TBH).

I think this was a big deal for me because when I made the decision 'not' to send anything I think I began to feel a lot of grief. As though it all became really real somehow. That I had felt so utterly unloved and isolated as a child and that I had probably felt all that grief and unhappiness back then but I'd buried it. I knew sending 'something' would be me denying my own feelings again.
Just like Ive denied the reality of the situation for so many years. That Im not and never have been and never will be a valued person within my family unit.

The other thing is the christening has still not been resolved. DB asked me to be godmother. This will all take place on the the 4th (or 2nd cant remember) of next month. So exactly a year from the debacle which was Ds's christening. The irony.

Its a bloody huge emotional roller coaster even thinking about it all. But for some reason I Keep putting off telling bro I cant come! And at points consider if I can actually go.
I tried to ring and tell him y'day and sunk into a huge depression and spent the day snapping at dh . Then made excuses not to make the phonecall.

I feel as though I have some perverse need still 'within me' to keep these people happy at the expense of myself.

ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe · 13/10/2008 18:54

oneplusone I can't help thinking that she didn't mean to cause you any upset by her comments but that she was trying to find out if they could have any rights to see the children. However reading on, it seems you have other issues with her and that might mean you have a point with her rights comments or else you are not seeing things clearly. You can't stay friends with someone because of history as you need more than that to sustain the relationship.

ActingNormal · 13/10/2008 19:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe · 13/10/2008 19:16

You are an adult. You do not have to ring them back. If it was urgent they would leave a message. I do understand as I am fretting about something I have said today and just want tomorrow here so I can see how things are.

What will annoy you more, feeling like you have to ring them and doing it, or having it hanging over you as you can't accept you don't have to ring them back?

ActingNormal · 13/10/2008 19:40

My mum left a message just saying can I phone back sometime she was just phoning to see how I was. She sounded shaky but might be just because she isn't confident and doesn't like leaving messages. I feel guilty not phoning back because I feel she is fragile.

On the other hand If I phone and then don't say something I wish I had said because I'm feeling weak tonight I will feel crap about myself. If I wait until I'm feeling stronger I feel I'm more likely to say what I want to say.

I feel resentful that I have to feel this 'pressure'. Why should I do something that is going to make me feel crap because if I don't I will feel really guilty about how she feels.

Even just talking about nothing to her seems to wind me up. Acting normal with my parents winds me up. I don't know why as I have said everything I wanted to say to them and don't want to talk about those things now, yet don't feel like acting normally with them either. I wish I understood why I feel like this.

I had just been thinking how much better I feel because I haven't even thought about them for a few weeks. I don't want to be reminded of them. I just want to escape them even though they don't do/say anything horrible. Maybe I am just a horrible person. I feel like it today

ActingNormal · 13/10/2008 21:28

OnePlusOne, I think people who have had 'normal' parents find it really hard to imagine parents not being like this and it is hard for them to understand. Are the things she has said bad enough to cut her off or has she just failed to understand? Is she asking about your parents legal rights because she is worried they might legally force you to let them see your DCs? Is it because she cares about it from your point of view or is it because she is more 'on their side'. What sort of things has she said?

ActingNormal · 13/10/2008 22:36

Smithfield, hope you are ok, it sounds painful, like you said, like a real cutting off, even though you haven't seen them for ages. It kind of scared me to read it, don't know why. But I am in a very strange mood today.

smithfield · 14/10/2008 09:46

Hi AN- Perhaps what I was saying in my post was triggering feelings that are coming to the surface for you atm.

I guess what I am going through at the minuite is a kind of inner turmoil over letting go of the last few threads of denial.

I realise its denial that has kept me bound to my family. That and fear of being alone.
The truth is I have always been alone anyway.

Alone within a family unit and denying my own feelings about it all.

Maybe this is now bubbling up inside you too.

Suddenly the games up, we cant revert to type anymore because something inside us is finally saying NO!

smithfield · 14/10/2008 09:49

Its as though your family rely on you to act normal, so they can escape any consequence of the their own failings as parents.

My family rely on me to be the scapegoat, the source of all that is wrong within the family for the same reasons.

I dont want to play that bloody role any more. Im sick to death of it.

ActingNormal · 14/10/2008 10:35

I've got to stop typing post after post! But I keep thinking of things.

I've been thinking about this loving one child more than the other thing and read a couple of web pages on it.

They said it was a common thing but most people don't admit to it - which is a good thing as we should never let our children know if we feel like this and must keep denying it if they ever ask us. It is important to try to treat our children as equally important.

Some reasons the articles said why parents might love one child more than the other are:

1 - A difficult birth might make instant bonding more difficult.

2 - With a first child, being inexperienced as a mother and anxious might make bonding more difficult

3 - A mother might feel more for her firstborn because she had him/her when her relationship with the father was newer and happier and the child reminds her of happier times

4 - One child might be harder work to parent than the other, giving the parent more trouble and needing to be told off more often. This makes it easier to feel more warmth towards the easier child.

The articles seem to be saying that it is not a terrible thing to feel this way and we don't have to feel so guilty because there can be understandable reasons. We should just not let our children know that we feel this way.

With my DD it was a difficult birth - the amount of pain was a shock because it was my first time but I could have coped with it if it hadn't gone on so long - 3 days from when contractions started. Had lots of drugs. They were going to do a c-section but were arguing over the best thing to do then did a ventouse. There was so much blood. I had loads of stitches. I was exhausted and kept passing out. It was night time when she came out and we both slept. Through the night they changed the bedding a few times because it was soaked in blood. They argued about whether to do a transfusion but decided not to. I had a sensation of slipping away and being only barely there and couldn't understand anything anyone said to me.

In the morning I felt really scared. It was a huge effort just to stand up and look in the cot. I felt scared that I was too physically weak to look after a baby if I could barely stand up, didn't know how to do it and the responsibility felt huge. DH had gone somewhere and I needed him there. I kept asking random people where he was (my brain was scrambled). He didn't come for hours. I'm still angry that I really needed his support but he was back at home looking after his Mum! who had rushed up because she was desperate to be involved and important. I didn't want to see her. I was worried I might be traumatised and not able to talk about the birth to anyone without feeling the horror of it again. I was thinking I needed a psychiatrist. Two days later I was able to talk about it though!

I worried about the birth for a while. I was so exhausted and drugged and passed out a few times that I felt I didn't know what really happened and felt I needed to know what happened and why it was so bad. There were things that happened that I wasn't even aware of eg they shaved me ready for a c-section but I never even noticed.

It was hard to recover physically. I couldn't sleep and babies don't sleep much at night. I found it hard to get the hang of breastfeeding but when I did she just wanted to feed and feed and that drained me as well. I had big blood clots coming out still but the midwives didn't seem worried. I was very anxious about every little noise she made and whether she was ok and how stupid I looked to other people in the ward because I just felt clueless. I didn't feel love because I felt overwhelmed by fear. I thought I would sleep better at home so got them to let me out of hospital before they wanted to, then realised I should probably have stayed because it felt like a huge physical effort just to walk from one room to the other or downstairs.

As the fear subsided a bit and my strength returned I felt more and more loving but I feel the bonding process was a bit delayed, just like point 2 said.

It was totally different with DS. The birth was still quite long but I didn't need so many drugs, didn't need an assisted birth and didn't tear as much. There was much much less blood. I fed him as soon as he was born and felt instant love. He went to sleep and I immediately got up and had a shower and had absolutely no problem standing up or moving about and felt like I was all there, not slipping away like last time. I wasn't scared about how to look after him, just enjoyed it, and didn't feel too physically weak and ill to do it. The bonding was instant. I recovered physically very fast and was going on long walks only days later (the midwife said I was overdoing it!). The difference was huge! I realised what a shambles my first birth had been! Despite all the horrors of birth I still felt a feeling of euphoria at the same time and look back on the births as the best parts of my life - how dimwitted is that!

As point 4. said, I do feel that DD is harder to parent than DS. She is more demanding, more non-stop, more hyper, less likely to sit still and have a cuddle and be soft and affectionate like DS who is incredibly affectionate. She is 'harder' and more independent. I can see that she has some really good spirited qualities which will help her in later life but she is hard work however much I admire her. I made a list of things I love about each child and her list was by far the longest, yet I still feel more for DS.

As usual, I'm sorry I've typed so much, it all just pours out. I do feel less guilty for feeling differently about the children though if I can see that there are understandable reasons and maybe it will help the situation not to be worrying endlessly about it. The anxiety makes me more tense and more likely to get angry. I feel kind of angry with DD for 'making' me feel guilty about my parenting sometimes and 'making' me feel like a rubbish mother when I so wanted to be a good mother and prove how much better I am than my parents. Maybe just accepting that I feel differently about them but resolving to treat them equally and not let them know, and making an effort to constantly look at DD's good qualities will help the situation.

I know that the way I feel is more than just what the articles said because of DD somehow reminding me of my brother and DS reminding me of myself in relation to him. But I am trying to sort this out with the therapist. And it is reassuring to read that there are 'normal' reasons which 'normal' people could have as well for feeling more for one child than the other.

ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe · 14/10/2008 12:20

If I am truly honest I have a different feeling when I think about my first child but I know it is just because they are my first born. I couldn't be without any of them and I certainly couldn't choose if I could only only save one in an accident. All my births have been dramatic in their different ways, and I have had PND after each birth, so in my case that isn't relevant.

I sometimes wonder if I have been unconsciously influenced. I worry more about DD than I do my sons. She is the middle child, the only girl, has a completely differently personality and I know my PIL prefer the boys. My mother also wanted a boy.

Who knows?

Sakura · 15/10/2008 10:13

Well, I'm pregnant with my second now (about 5 weeks along) and this issue is rearing its ugly head for me. AN I liked what you said about the articles saying that prefering one child is not uncommon, and is even okay, just as long as you do everything within your power to conceal this.
I am besotted with DD. I feel like she is me. (Am I a phsycho?) I feel like I have been giving love and nurturing her the way I should have been nurtured, and nurturing her feels like nurturing myself in a way--as though I'm re-writing the family script.
I have no idea how it will be with my second.
I am so worried about causing my children pain. Will I push DD out and will she become the scapegoat? Will I favour her over the next baby? I just have no clue what is going to happen.
I also think that whether you have a boy or a girl makes a big difference to the dynamics.
I think, as with everything, having a sense of awareness and insight can reduce the damage considerable. Being able to analyze yourself and your behaviour truly is a gift, although it is very tiring at times.

more · 15/10/2008 11:06

Sakura I love both of my children equally high (first one a girl and second one a boy), and due to the fact that you are so aware of your own feelings I don't think you will "favour" one over the other.

When I first discovered that we were having a boy I did go a bit ehhh, but how can I have a boy, I don't know what to do with "one of those". I really was not sure if I could love a boy. I told my husband about it and about the fact that these feelings were not something that I was proud of or fully understood. Despite him not understanding that I felt that way he let me talk it through and generally helped me focus on all the good aspects of having a boy.

I loved him just as much as his sister from the minute he was born (did not realise how much I actually loved my daughter until two weeks after she was born). Even though he was not as good a sleeper as his sister, or as easily entertained as she had been. I got my daughter involved, and seeing her joy is hard to describe.

Just give yourself some time, and don't be too hard on yourself.

smithfield · 15/10/2008 13:09

sakura- Congratulations

I relate to what More says. In some ways you will be 'more' equiped to deal with the issue of loving two children than most mothers.

I have read many posts by mothers on here who are pg with their second or trying to concieve their second and their concerns are the same.

So it is normal to have these feelings.

When I was in hospital and had been induced with dd. I was having mild contractions, slipping towards labour and all I could think (shockingly) was I dont want this, what was I thinking having a second? I just wanted to go home to ds and dh. I didnt want things to change.

I realise it was fear of the unknown (plus hormones and fear of labour talking).
It was very tough in the beginning and I think I may have taken my stress out on ds a bit in the early days. Thankfully because I am self aware (or more so now than ever before) I nipped it in the bud.

I do love them equally and they are both very different children.
I just want to accept them for who they are.
I also think somethimes there are 'phases' of difficulty related to age and developmental stages. Again normal stuff.

Yes, the key is really to go easy on ourselves. There is no such thing a the perfect mother. We have to learn to be kinder to ourselves as well as to our children.

more · 15/10/2008 14:52

Sugar, forgot to say congratulations .

Sakura · 16/10/2008 14:29

Thank you more and Smithfield,
A long reply just got deleted but I just wanted to say that I can relate to things both of you said, mainly the fear of the unkown and unsure whether you can love the next baby the same. But you both sent me such reassuring posts and actually, I feel a lot better now after reading them. I know I can always come on here and analyze any weird feelings to death until I know whats going on underneath it all...
(I just bloody hope my poisonous, jealous MIL stays away this time. Oh, well I'm older and wiser now and I've already got the swords drawn. Last time I was like a trusting little lamb led to slaughter!)

oneplusone · 16/10/2008 15:10

Below is an article I found interesting about the definition and therapy for psychological trauma. It also talks about post-traumatic growth which I found to be pleasantly postive, amidst all the negative connotations connected with this topic.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_trauma

OP posts:
oneplusone · 16/10/2008 15:16

I also found the following article interesting as well, from a scientific point of view, about the effects on the brain of psycholgical/emotional trauma.

It is encouraging that research is being done in this area; I hope it will help in discovering the best therapies for recovering from childhood trauma.

www.sciencedaily.com/articles/p/psychological_trauma.htm

OP posts:
oneplusone · 16/10/2008 15:18

Sorry, one more message, congratulations to Sakura!

I think you have been given some great advice on here, the fact that you are so self aware will, IMHO, 'insulate' your new DC from being hurt in the same way that you were as a child.

OP posts:
oneplusone · 16/10/2008 15:44

One last article about how to handle the situation when DC's are upset.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070927133324.htm

OP posts:
Ally90 · 18/10/2008 09:52

Sakura!!! Congratulations! I'm so happy for you!! We can go from one girl to two children together! I'm 18 weeks along now, so good to know someone else in same mother boat and one girl already, your not the only one worried about it all...

Sakura · 18/10/2008 11:56

Thanks Ally Yes, we can help each other along together...
At least we're wiser this time- I remember your mother's awful behaviour after you'd had a c-section, when you were in the car and she was screaming at you. I can't remember the details exactly but I remember reading that story quite soon after I'd had DD, and just thinking OMG, that was awful. New mothers are so teary and vulnerable. Anyway, it'll DEF be better this time round...

oneplusone, thank you for the congratutlations I'm going to look at those articles you posted now- they sound really interesting

smithfield · 19/10/2008 15:58

Ally- Been wondering about you! How are you doing? Hoping you're blooming at this stage??

How are the antenatal visits? No sitings yet I hope (fingers crossed emoticon)

smithfield · 19/10/2008 16:00
  • sightings!
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