"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Oh GOd, purpleone. Really the last thing you need is for them to contact your parents. Of all the bungled, inept, incompetent things that SS could do...! I mean, if a mother is having problems why doesn't SS firstly offer support and ask the mother what she needs, because I guarantee that most women who are struggling with their kids are doing so becuause of the inept mothering the themselves received. GOd I'm so for you.
Anyway, you really are going to have to pull out all the stops to stop them from contacting your parents. Your parents will paint a bad picture of you because this 'proves' to them in their mind that all along they were 'okay' and you are the one who is faulty.
I would imagine all you can do is to take the initiative and call a meeting with SS yourself. I think this looks very good in their eyes. I know you must be scared to death but I imagine it will go down on some record that you contacted them. THen you tell them that you were abused by your parents. Forget about how this makes your parents look. Then you say that because of this abuse, you are now suffering repercussions and although things are not going well you are looking for some councelling and are wondering what they advise you to do. (This puts the ball in their court) Tell them that there is no way you would be able to handle contact with your abusive parents and that if they did contact them you are sure it would have a negative effect on you. Tell them that this negative effect would not be beneficial to your children and, as the children are the main priority here, you are suprised that they have suggested doing something that will affect you negatively.

Maybe others here know more about SS than I do, but all I think you can do is try to appeal to the common sense of whoever is dealing with you.

purpleone- Agree with sakura. I dont see any benefit either, infact the opposite.
That would be like me (ok not on the same scale) Saying 'help' I have PND and the HV saying ok lets get your mum up here.
Cos that would just send me into psychosis.

But I wanted to ask have they said for what reason? Because if they are 'endeavouring' to get you some support then you have to tell them the reasons this wont be of any help to you. Otherwise how will they know.

Would you consider doing what Sakura says? Calling a meeting with them? I must admit Im in two minds with that myself. I've never dealt with them personally but not sure I would trust them...think I would go into flight mode.
But I think you have to face this head on purpleone.
Was it the school who called ss/cp?

AN, I think you are absolutely right with your assesment of your DH's treatment of you and why he does it. He himself is probably totally unaware of his subconscious drive to behave this way so I think perhaps talking to him may not achieve anything.

I feel in some ways DH and I are on different sides of a fence since I have been through this process. I have insight into myself and am starting to see what drives other people in their behaviour. I can see how my therapist was totally right when he talked about people who behave towards you in a way you don't like, it is actually nothing to do with you, it is all them and their inner subconscious drives, stemming from their early childhood experiences. And it is something they cannot change unless they take steps to gain some insight into themselves.

AN, I don't know if this would work with you, but I have told myself to not get upset at DH's behaviour for precisely the above reason. As although it may feel very personal against me, DH in fact is simply acting in a way he was 'programmed' to do from a very early age and he simply can't help himself.

The other thing that occurred to me today was that perhaps my anger (or at least some of my anger) against DH and MIL has been misdirected and the real targets should be my parents. It seems that DH and MIL have been triggering intense feelings from my early childhood, before i was able to recogise what was happening and 'emotionally map' those feelings. It makes sense as i remember feeling such intense anguish, sadness and pain as a result of certain incidents with DH and MIL which looking back in hindsight now, seemed out of proportion in relation to what had actually happened. Alice Miller says thought that one needs to 'conciously' experience one's emotions from childhood and whilst i am sure the emotions i was experiencing were from my childhood, i wasn't conscious of this at the time, so does that experience count?

Purpleone, I would immediately make it clear to SS that they should not contact your parents and tell them a little bit about why. I agree with Sakura about perhaps calling a meeting with SS. Do you have a friend nearby who you can trust who could be at the meeting to give you some moral support?

Purple, I really agree with what the others said, why oh why do SS think that getting your parents involved will help when it seems obvious that your problems were originated by them and will be re-intensified by you having contact with them again! Please tell SS why it will not help the situation! Good luck x

OnePlusOne, Yes, as I wrote about what makes DH the way he is I did feel better about the things he has done and that it wasn't because I was rubbish. But my Therapist always seems to disapprove if I say to him "But I understand why they did it so I feel I want to forgive them" about different things. He wants me to feel the anger etc. and process it instead of blocking it behind forgiveness and empathy for the one who hurt me.

It's just how to process the negative feelings which is tricky. So far I think writing letters you don't send and doing physical stuff to get anger out while thinking of what made you angry seem to be good ways. I also feel it is important to say to DH "I understand why you were like you are but I will not tolerate this behaviour in the future". I've sort of said this sort of thing to DH but I might still say it again. I read a MN thread recently about a situation similar to how DH has upset me in the past and might use that as a way in to talking to him about it.

AN, your therapist is right, it is very important to feel your anger and not block it behind forgiveness and empathy like you say you tend to do. I know what you mean though as i was in the same situation a while ago. I had spent so much time thinking about my parents and why they behaved the way they did that i couldn't feel angry towards them as i could see they really couldn't help themselves.

But, what i think Alice Miller and your therapist mean is that you need to feel the anger you would have felt as a child towards your parents. So the anger is not you as an adult being angry towards your parents, it's you as a child. And as a child you wouldn't have had the knowledge you do now, so you wouldn't have had any understanding about why your parents treated you the way they did, you would just have had your raw emotions, anger, pain, sadness, lonliness caused by your parents' abuse/neglect. In effect you need to imagine yourself as a child again, without the knowledge and insight you now possess as an adult and feel the emotions you couldn't allow yourself to feel at that time.

I know what you mean about finding this hard to do. My therapist told me that i have perhaps 'over intellectualised' ie have understood my parents too well and have therefore blocked my feelings and it sounds like you have done this as well. He suggested to me to write some more letters to my parents (which I haven't done as yet) in order to try and get in touch with my anger.

Hi All,
just checking in to say thank you.
A long while ago I posted about some problems I had been having. things have come to a head a few times and I have had alot of sessions with the CMH psychiatrist and last week had my first session with the outpatient department at our local hospital.
It was traumatic - she was calling my childhood "a living hell" and was very strong in her words about my parents and others around me - I didn't like that as it made me feel I had to defend them or excuse their behaviour.
Anyway - baby steps - I will get there in the end. I have started an online diary to see me through, I really feel the need to write down the details of our meeting quickly afterwards because I worry about forgetting things that may help me in the future.

so Once again - thanks.

AN, can i ask what physical stuff you do to get your anger out? This is what i am struggling with. I can do the letter writing, if i push myself, but then i feel i have this energy i need to release but don't know how. I feel like i want to smash plates and scream out loud and shout, but have nowhere private to do this. I would be grateful for any suggestions you have which i could do at home, bearing in mind my neighbours are right next door!

AN/Oneplusone- I feel quite strongly that a woman (or a man) should not be 'afraid' to express their thoughts or feelings to a partner for fear of instilling anger.
The reason I feel so strongly is because this was my father and how he behaved.
It is a form of control, because if you are afraid to express certain thoughts or feelings, whatever they may be the person who is stopping you is controlling you.
I think it makes you feel incredibly powerless because you may feel something strongly but can not express it because you are afraid to.

Oneplusone- I relate to so much of what you have posted.
The not feeling important part was crucial for me too. I have realised that my father by never having any time for me as a child made me feel unimportant. I realise now that most of my life I have been acting too. I have been looking for ways to gain his approval. To become important. Hence my constant obsession with changing careers and becoming something with power attached to it.
This also comes up in my relationships with others time and again. I often feel hurt by friends and partners if they let me down, as I am hypersensitive. I know now this is because I feel the pain of being not important enough. The pain comes from that time and place in my childhood when that is how I felt.
At least I know now this is where it comes from. Like you say emotional mapping is vital.

I often dont feel I can even write on here because what I have to say is not important enough.

I have recently realised I have no idea who the hell I am. I am a talking head, literally. I have not felt any emotions, not really, other than my anger for a very long time. Feeling them now is hard and I do everything to avoid.

Lots of things are surfacing for me at the moment and somedays I emerge lighter and others I feel I am not so much sinking but sunk.

With regards to the christening it will be the hardest thing for me to refuse to go. I have also realised that I was taught that having my own needs was selfish. That is why I always think of myself as selfish and yet I constantly second guess others needs so I can meet them and stuff down my own.
I think that is why I find it hard with MIL. Although I am getting stronger, I have an automatic urge to meet her needs.

It's not healthy and I have to start believing I am entitled to meet my own needs as well. If going (to the christening) is too uncomfortable for me then I will have to follow through.
However, the thought of saying no fills me with dread.

Why does being percieved as or being selfish - AKA meeting MY needs first- feel like death to me. It makes my stomach churn and heart race just thinking about it.

I guess because I have been on the recieving end of them all putting themselves first I know how much it hurts and dont want to inflict that same pain myself.

smithfield, i agree we should all be able to express our anger towards someone without being afraid. But DH is quite scary when he is angry and so i am reluctant to do anything to make him angry. How do i overcome this?

Re your brother, if you decide you don't want to go, it's not being selfish, it is healthy for you to stay away from situations where you could end up hurt emotionally. If you think of it that way, would it help?

Perhaps you not going might upset/anger your brother initially, but once he has calmed down he might realise how deeply you have been hurt by your parents for you to take such a drastic step and it may change your relationship for the better. I feel this is what has happened with my sisters, we have a healthier relationship now than before, but it was not achieved without first going through some very painful and hard patches (i remember posting lots about it on here a while ago).

Have faith in yourself, you are an adult, no longer a child, you can and will survive any consequences of you not going to the christening. We're all here to support you and I'm sure your DH will support you as well.

On a different topic, of not feeling important or valued by my parents. I remember when we moved house when me and my sisters were all living at home, there were 3 bedrooms that me and my sisters had to choose from. I deliberately chose the smallest one. At the time i told myself that it was because i felt sorry for my sisters as they had previously had to share a room in our old house whereas i had had my own room (albeit a shoebo) and so in the new house i let them have the bigger rooms and i took the smaller room. But in actual fact the real reason i chose the smaller room was that if i had chosen one of the bigger rooms and one of my sisters had wanted it i knew that my parents would have backed my sister and i would have ended up with the smaller room. It would also have been another instance of my parents' showing i was of the least importance/value to them and i'm sure i just couldn't face the pain of that feeling and so i avoided the situation arising at all. I feel as if even though i was the eldest child who would normally get the respect of her younger siblings, i was actually the least respected sibling, i was the non-entity, and treated as such by everyone in the family. My parents cast me in that role and my sisters simply followed my parents lead in seeing me as the unimportant, lazy, useless child.

My youngest sister is the one who was treated as if she was the eldest child, as if she was the sensible, clever, responsible, golden child. And naturally she responded to such positive treatment and lived up to my parents's expectations; she has achieved a lot in her personal and professional life. It has of course all gone completely to her head and she, both to me and DH, comes across as extremely arrogant and full of herself, and she has no idea that she has achieved what she has not only through her own endeavours but because she had my parents' love, attention, encouragement, faith and support.....all things which i never got.

oneplusone- I wasnt suggesting that you challenge your dh especially if you are afraid of doing so. I would never do that as I have lived with a man like this (my father) and know the fear too well.He could blow up at the smallest thing.

I remember once driving the car one christmas day (I was driving so my parents could drink). I must have been about 19 and as I got to the lights someone went into the back of the car.
My first reaction was to pull away from my dad who was sitting next to me and say 'pleadingly' '...it wasnt my fault, it wasnt my fault'.
I just think it is wrong and feel strongly about it.

I havent been in that situation with a partner. My relationships (one in particular) was more verbal abuse. At the time I took the abuse because like you were saying I had low self esteem and no self awareness at all.

I think AN has a point that a line could be drawn where you say I will stand for that behaviour no more. Even if you are saying it mentally/internally to yourself.

Your younger sister is similar to my middle brother (who is having the christening).
My father was abusive to him especially when he was little, but he 'is' the golden child. I feel inferior to him when I am around him and I believe he feels superior to me. Or that I must be kept in my place in order for him to maintain his position.
Its strange because he has married into a family who all think of him as 'golden' as well. They all really look up to him.

It is harder with my sister tbh because she is always treated in such a way that spells out how much more they think of her than me.
I have posted on here before about that. I honestly think though that it is done by my father as a punishment for leaving and seeking independence.

He let me rent his house, but when my sister moved in and I moved away he paid for it to be renovated first.
When I first moved out he gave her a car then she had an ensuite for her bedroom and it seemed the more independent I became the more she got.
Considering my father shows his love materially I feel he is letting me know subconciously I am worth less.

It's strange but I feel fiercly competetive on one hand and yet on the other I am defeatist in that I think what is the point because I can never match up and can never be good enough.
Frankly I think my brother was real smart and got it way quicker than the rest of us. He was always determined to beat me at everything and even though he was younger he always did beat me.
I think he knew very early on he had to be top dog in our family. Sink or swim.

I do know I must make myself confront my fears by saying no to the christening, I think I will probably gain a lot of strength from doing this.
My therapist thinks the more I do this, as in stand up for myself and put myself first the more I will gain self esteem.
I know I would not even need to ask my brother if he was in the same situation.
In fact he 'had' said he nearly didnt go to my wedding because my sisters ex may have been going. The ex didnt go so he did. But I felt really hurt that he even said it.

I often wonder what people think when they meet me because I know I can 'act' confident but underneath I feel so inferior.

I invited a neighbour around the other day. she has just had a baby and her other ds goes to same nursery as mine.
The day before she came I felt incredibly stressed and was really snappy with ds.
I desperately want to make friends but I hate people coming to my house. It was of course fine and she was lovely. But the build up to it made me so anxious because Im sure I was thinking, that she would be judging me and my home and my parenting.

The other thing was that I got on really well with her but afterwards I just sighed inwardly and thought wow, she has it all. She is pretty, younger, smarter...big important job etc.
I always think everyone is better than me.

My therapist said that my parents have been hurting me right into adulthood, and that is why everything is so raw.
even at my wedding I felt relief that people came (because I thought they wouldnt bother). But although I was relieved I was also hurt at the same time because my family had come all the way to Australia for the wedding but didnt seem to want to spend any time with me.
It's always been about them, never about me.

I also relate to the illnesses as a result of suppressed emotions. My asthma has been 'so' much worse recently. It flared up for the first time in 2 years when I was pg which is when everything began to surface for me.

It is strange but my asthma didnt start until I was in my 30's. It was only the other day that I pinpointed the fact that it all began precisely when my parents had the argument which lead to their divorce.
I remember reading Alice Miller and thinking wow because a case study she put in her book cited asthma and linked it to controlling parents.

I was getting a lot of phonecalls then from both sides.

The first time I had had a 'real' relationship with my father and it was because he 'needed' me. Needed to download to me. Complaining about what my mother was doing to him. Never mind what she'd done to me as a child. When had he ever been there for me?

He never came to a single event that I was involved in. Not a single dance festival, dance class, school play..none of my firsts.

In fact when I needed him most and was small and in hospital having a major operation he came to visit me twice. Once when I came around from the operation and he came one evening. The evening he came to visit he stayed for about 20 mins and left saying he couldnt leave his car where it was.

After that he told me that his car had been stolen that night and he had a lot of money in it . He basically made me feel guilty for having visited me. I did feel terrible when he told me.
But also he was telling me he cared about money more than me. And he did. Money and booze. Far more important.
Wow floodgates are opening here it seems

Maybe that is why I disrespect money so much. I have got better now, but I used to always be in debt. If I feel low I go out and spend money. When I was a student I used to visit different places I knew I could get money out when I was already overdrawn. I used to do it quickly and on purpose. I wonder now if that was me being angry. Angry that they seemed to care so much more about money than they did their own daughter.

OnePlusOne, I go in my cellar where I'm hoping the neighbours can't really hear me and I smack a football against the wall with a child's cricket bat while saying venomous things in my head to people who caused bad feelings. It isn't really noisy like screaming. Bashing something seems like a good way for me. Exercising isn't the best way for me but probably helps some people. I tend to do it til it really hurts and kind of 'enjoy' the pain but Therapist says I am taking my anger out on myself and could damage myself.

I like what you said about you have to feel the anger the way you did when you were a child and not the anger you feel as an adult about what they did. So how do you put yourself back in the child and feel that? Do you know any techniques?

Smithfield, Don't think what you have to say is not important enough to post! Look at the fecking drivel I spew out constantly! I often repeat myself as well I think in different ways. I'm always fascinated to read everyone's posts.

I know what you mean about feeling like everyone else is better than you all the time and at the moment I keep thinking about what a failure I feel because I never really got anywhere in a career or made a realistic amount of money to support a family. I believe I have the intelligence (I got a good honours degree) and despite my lack of confidence I've been perfectly competent in the jobs I have done, but I don't have the confidence to get very far in a career.

My dad gave me money even after I left home and then my DH paid for most things. The thought that if I was suddenly on my own and if there is something I feel I wouldn't be able to do to look after myself and children eg earning enough money and driving the car any long distance makes me feel scared and dependent on DH. I feel a bit useless and that people might 'find out' how useless I am and that I'm just acting capable and 'grown up'.

I sometimes feel better if I think to myself that the people who I see as being more capable at life than me and more confident haven't had to go through all the shit that I have so they have had a head start. I have done well to come this far after all that happened and how I felt. Would this thought help you as well?

I know that some people go the other way and overachieve to try to get their parents' approval. I know my birthmother did this and made herself ill with exhaustion from her workaholicism. Her dad said she would never be anything more than a slag.

I know that some people go the other way and overachieve to try to get their parents' approval. I know my birthmother did this and made herself ill with exhaustion from her workaholicism. Her dad said she would never be anything more than a slag.

God that is just horrible. what an awful thing to say to your own child!
Yes I think younger db has gone the other way and I also think this is what drove my father. He was one of two and his sister was favourite. His parents had no money but spent it all on dad's sister's dancing lessons. I think he was definately the scapegoat. A teacher also told him he would never amount to anything.

I guess I do often consider this. I think what if I really showed them. But the fact is 'now' I just feel I would be doing the same to my children as was done to me. That I wouldnt be there to see them and spend time with them and be too busy making money.

Also I dont think I can hate money (because I came second to it) and be motivated to make lots of it at the same time.

My brother is totally motivated by money. He loves the power it gives him. He uses it to buy people and control them. It's his security. His self esteem. Just like my dad.

The problem with it is, what happens if you lose your money. Well then you lose your power and control and your self esteem with it.

This happened to my dad also. A lot of the arguments and violence happened when he lost a lot of money. But of course It wasnt 'just' money to him.

AND

'Look at the fecking drivel I spew out constantly!'

That made me chuckle...but in a nice way.
You dont write drivel at all. I find what you write very insightful and I see how you go about working through things and coming up with some real solutions.
I learn a lot from your posts.

For example you say you block your feelings with empathy and forgiveness.
Having read that I realise I block mine with guilt.

I was also considering what you said about excersise as a punishment...I was wondering if I overeat to punish myself.
I will literally eat until it is uncomfortable or I feel sick. I do feel as though I am trying to destract myself from some really painful feelings.
For a long time now I used to think it was self soothing. I have always had an issue with food.
My mum came back from hospital, where she had been for a long while because she was on bedrest with the twins before they were born.
My dads mum came to stay and she used to let me skip school and fed me cakes and sweets. When my mum came back she was furious and said she was putting me on a diet because I was fat. She said even my dance teacher commented about how my legs now touched at the top.
I felt really and have had a problem with food ever since then.
Ive also been anorexic for a while and when I was at uni I used to binge and then make myself sick and take laxatives.
So as Im writing this down I definately start to feel that it is more a form of punishment than of self soothing.
Now how to stop?

Have you stopped over exercising now you realise why you're doing it?

oneplusone- I would also like to know if you have any techniques for reaching/accessing childhood feelings.

re anger;
Something I tried the other night which really worked for me was I imagined lying on my back on the top of a beautiful mountain and in front of me were huge stone or clay blocks with things carved in the side of them.

One said 'not important', another said 'not good enough' and so on.

I would then imagine putting my feet against each of them in turn. I would imagine pushing with all my mite until it fell over the edge. I would then peer over the edge and watch it smash at my parents feet who were stood at the bottom watching.

I then shout '..have this back it doesnt bloody belong to me' or something like that.

I found it released a lot of tension from me and I have been trying to do it every night since.

Smithfield- totally shocking for your mother to treat you like that after she'd had her twins- putting you on a diet FFS! What you need was love, care and reassurance at the moment you were introduced to your new siblings, not a friggin diet!

ACtingNormal, I had to smile at what you wrote about feeling fake. THat is something that i definitely feel like when I'm driving my car or doing something 'grown up'. I think 'what if I get found out?' What if people know that I'm really a crap person who is shitty at housework, dependant on husband and would probably go under- mad or something if it wasn't for my husband's support.
But then I meet women here in Japan, SAHMs, whos kids are in school all day, who are just absolutely content with their lives(I guess). They seem very relaxed and chilled out even though they don't really achieve anything in the traditional sense of the word. I just know that I'd feel completely worthless as a human being if I filled my life with 'hobbies' and lunches the way they do, but I suppose in a way their attitude is quite refreshing because it says 'My husband and children and society think that I and the work I do as a mother is valuable and that in itself is enough. '
I dunno, its like they've got nothing to prove- the complete opposite of me.

But I think not only abused women feel like this. I think a lot of women feel that people might see through their confident exterior one day and they'll be found out. Alison PEarson mentions this feeling in the book 'I don't know how she does it'.

Sakura, is that book 'chick-lit'? I might get a copy. Only I don't think I can cope with any more books that require too much concentration (eg Alice Miller) at the moment!

Smithfield, it sounds like you are punishing yourself with food! What you wrote reminded me of how I used to be with alcohol, drinking as much as I possibly could, even when I was feeling sicker and sicker and knew I was going to puke. I felt a bit like I was trying to show people there was something really wrong and I needed help - like 'look what I am doing to myself, look how far I'm going and how I don't care, can't you see how ill (mentally) I am! (please somebody help me) I'm falling all over the place, I'm making an idiot of myself in ways I will regret when I'm sober but I don't care. I'm putting myself in danger because I'm not really capable of looking after myself anymore, but I don't care'.

I didn't feel I could actually talk about what was wrong and had no way of expressing anything other than by punishing myself. I felt kind of aggressive and defiant while I was doing it. The sickness after was so horrible and I was angry with myself every time and said to myself I have got to stop it, I've done it one time too many, then I would go and do it again the following weekend. I don't do it often now because the thought of needing to look after the children stops me - which is great!

I think food issues, too much shopping, too much exercise, too much chasing sex and loads of things which may look trivial are addictions just as much as drug addiction. And I think people start doing it in the first place because either they feel a big gap in themselves or they feel unable to express intense feelings. If we could find a way to express ourselves properly and to find the things we need (the right emotional input from other people probably) I don't think we would need these other things (which don't work anyway long term do they!). Therapist said once "You are constantly searching for something, but you are not going to find it by doing what you are doing" (not going to say what but don't think I'm doing it anymore)

Can anyone make sense of this? - I felt myself going 'mental' when we watched Strictly Come Dancing with the kids tonight.

We watched it past their bedtime so I was slightly pissed off that I wasn't getting my break from them soon enough, but that was a small part of it.

They were leaping about like lunatics! Trying to dance, making lots of noise, doing it right in front of me, DD wanting us to look at her and tell her how great her dancing was, with a real 'look at me, look at me' way. The attention seeking thing made me feel really bad fury. Swear words were coming into my head which I feel ashamed of (eg shut the fuck up and piss off). She was trying to make DS dance as well and dragging him about by his arms and this was making me furious as well. I feel she controls him and bosses him around and I kept imagining she might wrench him at the wrong angle and accidentally break his arms.

I was also incredibly anxious. I couldn't stop picturing them crashing into hard surfaces and smashing their faces and teeth in and having blood all over their faces and we would have to take them to casualty. I felt horrified and sick.

I felt angry with DH for letting them do this and that it would be his fault if they hurt themselves but I would still not forgive myself for not stopping them myself. I try to follow his lead because I know I am overanxious and he thinks they are behaving normally and so I need to learn to relax, but what if he is wrong? How do I know? What if I trust him and then they hurt themselves? So I felt angry with him as well.

DH thought I was being crazy and I felt mental. I stopped talking to any of them because I felt I might lose it and hit one of the kids. All over something as trivial as Strictly bloody dancing! It flashed into my head that my fucking dead peado GF used to get in a mood if my parents didn't put Come Dancing on TV for him when he was staying but I don't think this is related to my rage, it really is just another little thing that added to my wound up-ness. I don't care about him at all, he has no significance, he was just a sick 'nothing' of a person who thought he should have everyone's respect for no reason.

ACtingNormal, It sounds like the Come Dancing was what they call a 'trigger'. Actually, it definitely was a trigger. Your memories of your abuse were triggered by that TV programme because of the connection it had with your GF and you probably did become anxious as a result.BUT the anxiety obviously appeared because of the link between that specific programme and your GF. WHat I mean is, it is unlikely that this level of anxiety will come back just for no reason at all, so don't be worried about that.
I've been on AMerican websites for abused adults and some of them require you to write 'TRIGGER' in the title of your post if you are about to mention abuse because the trigger of reading about it can sometimes be too strong for someone to cope with.
I just mean that it seems like you'Ve had what is recognised as a normal reaction.]
They suggest you try to itentify what triggers your panicky feelings and then you can eliminate them from your life or at least be aware of them. I would say Come Dancing (as strange as is sounds) is one of your triggers.

For me, speaking on the phone to my father triggers the flashbacks of my mother's (and his) abuse so thats why I refuse to do it anymore. Also photos you accidentally find, a smell, an old skirt- anything can do it ,so when it happens just remember the effect it had on you and get rid of the thing that triggered you.
Actually its unlikely it will come back again during COme Dancing because that particular emotion has surfaced and processed now i.e. you're one step closer to feeling okay.

The book is chick lit, its very good.

ACtingNormal, It sounds like the Come Dancing was what they call a 'trigger'. Actually, it definitely was a trigger. Your memories of your abuse were triggered by that TV programme because of the connection it had with your GF and you probably did become anxious as a result.BUT the anxiety obviously appeared because of the link between that specific programme and your GF. WHat I mean is, it is unlikely that this level of anxiety will come back just for no reason at all, so don't be worried about that.
I've been on AMerican websites for abused adults and some of them require you to write 'TRIGGER' in the title of your post if you are about to mention abuse because the trigger of reading about it can sometimes be too strong for someone to cope with.
I just mean that it seems like you'Ve had what is recognised as a normal reaction.]
They suggest you try to itentify what triggers your panicky feelings and then you can eliminate them from your life or at least be aware of them. I would say Come Dancing (as strange as is sounds) is one of your triggers.

For me, speaking on the phone to my father triggers the flashbacks of my mother's (and his) abuse so thats why I refuse to do it anymore. Also photos you accidentally find, a smell, an old skirt- anything can do it ,so when it happens just remember the effect it had on you and get rid of the thing that triggered you.
Actually its unlikely it will come back again during COme Dancing because that particular emotion has surfaced and processed now i.e. you're one step closer to feeling okay.

The book is chick lit, its very good.

ACtingNormal, It sounds like the Come Dancing was what they call a 'trigger'. Actually, it definitely was a trigger. Your memories of your abuse were triggered by that TV programme because of the connection it had with your GF and you probably did become anxious as a result.BUT the anxiety obviously appeared because of the link between that specific programme and your GF. WHat I mean is, it is unlikely that this level of anxiety will come back just for no reason at all, so don't be worried about that.
I've been on AMerican websites for abused adults and some of them require you to write 'TRIGGER' in the title of your post if you are about to mention abuse because the trigger of reading about it can sometimes be too strong for a someone to cope with.
I just mean that it seems like you'Ve had what is recognised as a normal reaction.]
They suggest you try to itentify what triggers your panicky feelings and then you can eliminate them from your life or at least be aware of them. I would say Come Dancing (silly as is sounds) is one of your triggers.

For me, speaking on the phone to my father triggers the flashbacks of my mother's (and his) abuse so thats why I refuse to do it anymore. Also photos you accidentally find, a smell, an old skirt- anything can do it ,so when it happens just remember it and file it away.
Actually its unlikely it will come back again during COme Dancing because that particular emotion has surfaced and processed now i.e. you're one step closer to feeling okay.

The book is chick lit and its very good.

AN- I agree wirh sakura. I also wonder if there were several triggers happening at the same time. The programmme plus dd wanting all your attention and dragging ds around probably triggered feelings of anger toward your brother.
I do get the impression that the strongest emotions surfacing here for you though were with regard to your gf. There seemed to be a lot of 'buried' anger in your post.

Sakura- Thankyou for your post. Do you know I never even thought of it that way. That I might have needed extra reassurance from her at the time.
I was always in the background/ignored, used as a mummy's little helper, or given negative attention.
I think she also took a huge amount of her stress out on me in those days.
It must have been hard for her with 4 of us and no help from my dad, but there was never any emapthy forthecoming even when I was an only child for the first six years.
I think the pattern was so established by the time the twins were born I didnt 'expect' anything from her.

Could be several triggers or I could just be a cantankerous bitch, although I don't think so because I really felt extreme. I've watched it with them before and not been as extreme as yesterday. Don't know if I'm more susceptible to triggers lately as things aren't as blocked as they used to be.

I felt funny the other day because they have changed the smell of the hair conditioner I use and it smelt like my dad's old office at school. I felt ok in there, safe even, so not sure why I found it upsetting to smell the smell. Maybe generally thinking back to that time in my life.

I recently threw away a deodorant because after wearing it for 5 minutes it started to smell like my mum and it disgusted me. I flashed back to sitting on her lap in the car, which was fine, although I felt like I didn't want to be that physically near her even then. I was under no threat but still felt disgusted. I often felt a need to get away from her even though she wasn't a threat. My insides just reject her. I used to hear her coming up the stairs when I was being alone in my bedroom, hiding from everyone and I kept thinking "fuck off, leave me alone, I want to be on my own, I'd rather be lonely than have you". But I'd sit in my room for ages then suddenly get the urge to go and stand in the kitchen and just be there in the room with her so I can't have totally hated her. I often do the same with MIL, hang around in her kitchen with her on our own.

Thinking of times that felt ok seems to mess with my head as well as the bad stuff, I'm impossible! I feel uneasy that if there were times when I felt ok maybe I am going mad and it wasn't that bad, although I know this is not true, it's not me that is mad it is them.

I've never been able to cope with the smell of Old Spice men's perfume or whatever it is. It makes me feel very sick and like I want to run away. I had to make my ex boyfriend throw away some shower gel or something that smelled like it. I used to panic if he put his hands on my face as well and go mad at him and it upset him.

Sometimes phrases that people use can make me go funny and want to shout out and run away eg. I used to go funny if anyone said "let me....", or used the word "creep".

Certain 'gothic' clothes that I see people wearing in the street make me feel funny. I think 'you look like a bastard! why do you want to look like a bastard?' (which is illogical because it won't remind them of the same people it reminds me of).

Men's work trousers make me feel revolted and I avoid ever touching my DH's. Dark brown ones would be the worst. I don't like him wearing work clothes and feel relieved when he gets changed out of them. It isn't just because he doesn't wash them because he doesn't wash his jeans for months but I feel fine touching them.

Some alcoholic drinks I won't drink because of being 'made' to drink them in the past and feeling ill or something horrible happening after/during.

Once my mum brought a box of old stuff of mine to my house for me to sort out and keep/chuck away what I wanted. I started to do it but felt so repelled by even touching the stuff that I just had to throw away the whole box. It was such a strong reaction to trivial stuff. I just didn't want anything from the past in my house. I've sometimes tried to keep old children's toys they have tried to get me to take from their house but after a while I have to throw them away. I just could NOT let them bring the dolls house which GF made. I couldn't bear the thought of even seeing it and I had to phone my dad and tell him why and tell them not to bring it. The phone call was very scary but I did it and felt good after.

To have such a strong reaction to even seeing old stuff from their house and feeling a total rejection of it surely this comes from somewhere, is this not proof of how shit it was living there! It still feels so weird and like I am 'mad' when they act so normal. I still feel like I can't get enough of people agreeing with me that it was shit. Without Therapist saying this I would feel like I am mad and making a lot out of nothing. I still feel I need permission to feel crap because what happened really wasn't as bad as stuff that happens to other people. I still haven't got past that. It's like I don't feel enough permission to feel the full extent of the crapness and process it.

There is music that makes me feel dread and emptiness and shame about who I was as well. I'm collecting the free CDs of 80s music in the Daily Mail at the moment but it is ok because most of it is stuff I liked but wasn't 'allowed' to like because bro thought it wasn't cool so I used to say it was crap and only buy music he approved of. Now I can listen to it and not be scared to enjoy it and might even write about getting the CDs in my next letter to him to prove to myself that I don't care what he thinks about it.

Music often makes me feel strong emotions and embarrassingly makes me cry, just like things like Eastenders does! I can cry about other things but it is harder to cry about the things I feel I want to cry about. Sometimes a sad film (or not even sad, children's films make me cry) for example is like an 'excuse' to get some of it out and I can't help crying. My body obviously 'wants' to feel things and uses small things to release it. Is this more proof of Alice Miller's theory about intense feelings being stored in your cells and finding a way out where they can? Is it similar to anger coming out on your children?

Maybe I should try to trigger all the triggers on purpose all at once to try to get everything out! What a fucking scary thought, and probably an unwise one!

Sorry, this is boring, listing trivial things that get to me, just what you two said set off one of my verbal diarrohea chains of thought.

He thought women should be like the ones on Come Dancing and he sat there with this satisfied, smug look on his face when he watched it. He seemed to think women just existed to entertain men. I want to stove his stupid fucking smug face in.

He would have loved it if I had pranced around like my daughter, trying to emulate them and he would have loved to watch her, the thought of which really sickens me. He always went on at me that girls should have long and curly hair (my daughter has). I cut all mine an inch short at the time, partly on purpose to spite him.

When DD was prancing around and coming right up to me doing it and wanting my attention, and she seems to dance in quite a grown up provocative way, I felt disgust and rage. I don't want her to be so attention seeking in that way, I couldn't help finding it disgusting. He would have loved it (watching her). I want to puke in his face.

AN- Now I have read these posts I definately think the trigger is as sakura said the programmme whi was linking to feelings about GF.
I also feel compelled (after reading it) to say to you that 'IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT' under 'ANY' circumstances 'WHATSOEVER'. If your dd did dance in a provocative way, or if you had done so yourself, it would still not have been your fault.
He was the adult and it was 'his'responsibility to control himself.

You were innocent AN, that innocence was rightfully yours and it was stolen from you.
I think part of the feelings around dd is linked to this feeling that somehow you did something wrong. YOU did not.

That is why you want her to not be too loud to 'visible'. You percieve danger in that foe her. Having lost your innocence you fiercley want to protect hers, preserve it.

I still feel (and sorry if I am wrong) there is a distinct essence here of you still blaming yourself.?

--
I have bee thinking about triggers myself today and thought I would list some too as I think it would be useful.
I have always found it hard to pinpoint triggers because my mood can change in an instant and I am so unaware of what just went before, almost like Im shut off from myself to such a degree that my body refuses to accept any changes that happen to it.

criticism (real or percieved)- makes me feel awful, as it reminds me of my mother's constant criticism

failure, or getting things wrong - even the slightest thing, like not having something ready for tea will set me off

being ignored/missed/let down - makes me feel pain of being unimportant

Control-people telling me what to do or trying to control me. even if it is subtle (like MIL). Strong overbearing people. Remind me of my mother I guess

People that appear arrogant/competetive/sure of themselves- Reminds me of my brother and how he always was better than me at everything. How he is determined to beat me at everything and how he would then laugh at me because I could never win.

He thinks he is superior. But now as I am writing this maybe this is a trait in him that comes from my mother, because she always had to be better than me too.

She even competed with me with for boyfriends, would openly flirt with them. Writing this makes me so I hate her. I hate her. I hate her.

She would always go on about her 1st class honors degree from cambridge. I knew from very early on how high the bar was and that I would never reach it. I felt like my mother was 'daring' me to.
She also corrects my pronounciation (even now) and will argue she is right over everything. Even black vs white.

When I sense anyone is trying to compete with me I give up because I dont want to be humiliated and I know I cant win.

Ds pulling at me and wanting things from me continuously- Think this is triggering my mother wanting me to put her first and run around after her, never being allowed to have my own needs met.
I have days where I will snap at DH, because he asks me for something, and I have been meeting the dc's needs all day and I literally feel overwhelmed/flooded by others needs.

That's all I can think of for now.