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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

sister wants to chuck out her DP, father to their 3 DDs - will it help or not?

19 replies

worriedsisneedshelp · 07/07/2008 23:19

long post, sorry
My sister has been with her DP for nearly 5years. They have 3 DDs under 5 - the oldest is his but not hers, BUT my sis has been her "mum" ever since she was 5mo.
The DP is "not a bad bloke" but he is lazy. They both work but don't bring in quite enough to keep them out of debt; my sis only works weekends when DP is at home.

She is getting more and more frustrated with him and frequently says she hates him and that she wishes he would leave because at least then she wouldn't need to clear up after his mess as well; plus she would know that she had to deal with the 3 DDs all on her own so she wouldn't be disappointed when she expects help but doesn't get it, as is currently the case.

I tell her that even though he is a PITA, he is at least able to give her a break from the kids and he does do stuff around the house eventually; he loves the girls but gets frustrated with them and my sis thinks he doesn't show them enough love so they will just think he is grumpy all the time.

She has had PND and is short on money and sleep.

What I am hoping for is that someone else can tell me - is it better for her to soldier on with him, despite her feelings, because he does help to some extent; or should she get rid of him and cope with 3 under 5s on her own? Has anyone been in this position and what did you do?

OP posts:
CarGirl · 07/07/2008 23:20

ask him to go to relate counselling, give their relationship a decent shot at being a much better one?

Bowddee · 07/07/2008 23:22

If the oldest is not hers, wouldn't she automatically lose custody of her?

worriedsisneedshelp · 07/07/2008 23:24

difficult to know as they haven't got to that point - my sis is her de facto mum, has residency etc. and was going to adopt her properly. I don't know what social services would do in these circs as DD1 thinks my sis is her mum

my sis already goes to counselling on her own but says he won't go.

OP posts:
Tortington · 07/07/2008 23:26

yes - i too think there would be a custody issue.

truth is if you don't love someone you dont - them picking up their shit isn't going to make any difference - the same as if you do you do - if they leave things laying around, you get annoyed but you still love them - see

this isn't about that me thinks.

i they want it to work - they WILL find a way.

madamez · 07/07/2008 23:31

WRT custody of DD1, where is DD1's mother? Dead? That might have some bearing on what happens if they do split up.
As to what your DSIS should do, has she tried saying to hi, I am unhappy and things need to change, what things would you like to change?

MrsMacaroon · 07/07/2008 23:33

maybe he'll get his arse in gear if she does leave/he leaves

worriedsisneedshelp · 07/07/2008 23:41

DD1's mum doesn't come into it, she gave up all rights to DD1 when she was 1. She hasn't even seen her since then. If they split up, there is a possibility that the MIL would want DD1 but she can barely manage her own life, let alone look after anyone else. Social Services had DD1 on the child protection register until my sis took over and they are aware of the background etc.

My sis has tried and tried to talk to her DP and when she does, he changes for about a week and then slips back into his old ways. It doesn't help that she has PND because this doesn't always let her be reasonable when she talks to him.

She can't leave as it is her house - he moved into it.

OP posts:
worriedsisneedshelp · 07/07/2008 23:45

Actually, madamez, she says it has got to the point where he just can't be bothered to listen to her and he storms off if she starts on about why she is unhappy.

I feel torn about this because he is NOT a bad bloke, there are many worse but on the other hand I don't have to live with him.
Neither do I have to live with my sister, but she is vv.like my mum and it was always constant pick, pick, pick with my mum, so if my sis is the same I feel sorry for her DP as well. And the kids of course

OP posts:
MrsMacaroon · 07/07/2008 23:47

they need counselling...that would be my bargaining tool if I were her. Counselling or leave and he should arrange it.

madamez · 08/07/2008 00:20

Hmm, I see your point WSNH - and MrsM is right that counselling is probably a good solution as neither of them is 100% good or bad.

worriedsisneedshelp · 08/07/2008 00:24

thanks for your comments; does anyone know anyone who has tried getting rid of their DP in these circs and was it worse or better afterwards?

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MrsMacaroon · 08/07/2008 00:50

I did the counselling or leave thing...same situ- babies/tired/debt/grumpy/laziness. Very common and understandable. Counselling helped and while we still have problems (who doesn't) and occasionally, things might regress a bit- we're clearer on what not to do, habits to break etc.
You should never underestimate the power of lack of sleep/money. You have to remember to be kind to each other.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 08/07/2008 01:13

These things seem to become a vicious circle. My mum was always nagging my dad, and the more she did, the less he seemed to listen. If she does love him, just hates his bad habits, then she needs to subtly retrain him! I've honestly found that trying to be nice and bigging up/ thanking him for the things he DOES do means that he does them more often (I know it's a bit like supernanny, but I very rarely nag DH, I hate the way it makes me sound and the atmosphere it produces.) Not saying it is your sis's fault, btw, in any way shape or form, but if she DOES love him maybe she could try a different approach from ultimatums (ultimatii??? pedants?) and nagging. I made such a show of thanks to DH running me a bath without prompting once when I came home from work that I came home to a slightly tepid bath every night after for about 2 years! Lack of sleep and PND are going to put everything out of perspective, so maybe she is best not to do anything rash at this point.

worriedsisneedshelp · 08/07/2008 01:20

thanks JJJ, that's what I keep saying to her, she mustn't do anything rash. This has been ongoing for a long time now and I really want to help her come to some sort of idea of how to deal with it without kicking him out - she has been threatening to do that for over a year, on and off - he just doesn't go, he rides it out.

I really don't know whether she loves him any more or not - and worse, I don't think she knows either. It's all just so overshadowed by the relentless rounds of tiredness and worry about money. I've even tried talking to him myself as we get on pretty well, but it doesn't seem to make much difference, at least not permanently.

OP posts:
worriedsisneedshelp · 08/07/2008 01:24

I suppose I'm trying to justify my position in this situation, where I'm saying it will only be worse if you get rid of him, and she says it couldn't be worse as she wouldn't have to put up with him or his stuff.
If she is right, then trying to persuade her to keep him on is not a kind thing to do, so I wanted to see if anyone had tried it and could say whether or not it had been better or worse for them.

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MrsDaisyFlower · 08/07/2008 01:31

I used those exact arguments for 'persuading' myself to leave my DDs father. However, looking back, the real issue for me was his attitude towards me and his attitude towards nurturing a family and the running of a household - there were a few other issues too. The issues that your DS state are perhaps symptomatic of a one-sided partnership.

Your sister is crying out for help, her DP needs to understand this, as do you - as her sister you can do a great deal to help.

I would advise that she begins by trying to right the imbalance. Perhaps start by remembering the original attraction...? Or perhaps something completely new? Perhaps you could take the children for a week whilst they get away somewhere? (in the hope that they could begin a new path with some more positive things to think/talk about), and I think you could try persuading other family members to step in and take some of the strain off her and her DP on a regular basis (at least one morning/afternoon on the same day every week)thereby giving the partnership the opportunity to flourish again. Splitting would be a last resort IMO, but that is only if I take your post on face value. I suspect that there may be more factors at play here that need dealing with, in which case I may well re-evaluate my opinion, but even so a last resort (unless there is violence/drink/drugs involved)

As for whether it is easier to soldier on or get rid...? An internet forum with all types contributing is not the best place for a definitive answer - but I can see that getting opinions may help your DS gather her thoughts and formulate a plan.

I left my DDs father, but there were other factors at play, so please don't take that as a guide! It has not been easy and at times I feel trapped in the house, isolated from the goings-on outside, even though I am not, and the middle of the night is awful. Then there is the disciplining, the relentless cycle of 'to-dos', the holidays away (camping and one child needing the loo in the middle of the night, flying and trying to board/check-in with baggage/children/...) I have had unwanted attention from men who have thought I simply must be desperate and up for anything, simply because I am alone, and have had strangers walk into my house drunk in the middle of the night (this seems to be a surprisingly common experience for single mothers!)I struggle under the weight that the survival of this family rests upon my shoulders alone. There is only one income coming into this household - one is not enough (unless you DS has already climbed the career ladder?)! I have to choose work to fit around my children, and am called upon first when there is an incident at school... Then there is the general view from society that all single parent families produce criminals... It WILL effect they way the school/Drs/neighbours etc. look upon your DS (quietly, but it will - we all hear the little throwaway comments about single parents - some people actually believe these comments). The list goes on! Being a single parent is very very very hard, and should not be taken lightly! However, it is not impossible to succeed. Nor is the whole world against single parents, an increasing number of the whole world single parents (unfortunately)and so this leads to a greater understanding about single-parenthood.

What I am saying is, its not just a case of lightening the load at home by cutting the amount of housework, becoming a single parent, for what ever reason, is not an easy option. If it is simply that your DS is struggling under the weight of bringing up a family then doing it alone will not help her. If, she and her DP have issues then they need repairing. Either way, she needs her family (mother/father/brothers/sisters/cousins...) to step in and take some of the strain.

worriedsisneedshelp · 08/07/2008 08:01

Thanks MrsDF - that is the sort of thing I was hoping for.
We don't any of us really know whether there is a relationship left between my sis and her DP because they had only been together for a few months when DD1 came into their lives. There is only my 75yo Dad and me in the area, my mum died which left a big hole in the support network and my bro is useless and too far away (both, not just one because of the other). I have a 7mo baby and my house is a lot smaller than hers. She does get some support from DP's family but she has "taken against" them, partly because they are often late, making her late, or cancel at the last moment.
There is no problem with drugs or violence; although he does like a bit of a drink now and again, he is not a drunk.

OP posts:
MrsDaisyFlower · 08/07/2008 11:06

If there are no overbearing issues with the relationship - just that he is not pulling his weight, or that she feels he is not pulling his weight then I would have thought this can be worked upon.

I really would advise your sister against throwing the towel in at the moment. The children will only be this young and needy for a short time. Before long her eldest and then the following two will come to an age where they can be helpful around the house (from the age of four or five they should be able to do the fiddly, time-consuming and often the most frustrating little things, such as putting on their own underwear, shoes (Velcro shoes are a must) and coat; putting toys away (separate boxes for cars/trains/pens/dolls etc make this possible) tucking their pyjamas under their pillow perhaps even clearing their own plates away after meals, they become less dependant on supervision with going to the loo... Once again, I could go on, and perhaps I am stating the obvious, but I remember feeling like I was stuck in a never-ending life of having little people attached to me, and thinking that I would never again have five minutes to myself. I was wrong in this assumption, perhaps if I had the time to step and look at my situation I would have seen that I was wrong and that things would get easier.

Furthermore, I think setting up reliable and consistent support network is the key here. I am sorry to hear that you are limited in family help, but there is still more you can do. Do you live close enough to each other that you could meet up at a toddler/baby group? (If you do not already that is - and if you don't: go and try out lots of groups to begin with, not every type will suit your tastes or needs, then stick to 2/3) You both need to start forming a network of close parenting friends - it can take a few years, but is an absolute must whether your sister chooses to stay or go. How do you feel about having them over for a meal once a week/fortnight/month? Perhaps alternate between eating at yours and hers? If you can make a real treat of it (a bottle of wine on the table, a favourite desert for the children, perhaps follow it by settling down with duvets in front of a DVD/favourite program...? Or a nice walk or a trip to the play park?)

Is your sister able to bring help in? Has she considered a cleaner, or even an au pair or nanny? Perhaps just a child minder for all of the children once a week (a whole day/morning...?)

thumbwitch · 08/07/2008 15:51

thanks for help and ideas MrsDF.

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