Friends without kids- your experiences?

[girlnextdoor]

My best friend of over 25 years has no kids.

We have a very close relationship, but she rarely ever asks after my kids. She is godmother to one of them too.

Even when they were small, she never once offered to babysit even though I have no family near. I was in hospital twice when they were toddlers and she didn't offer to help- though she does live an hour's drive away.

I really do care about her and she is having a rough time at the moment, so I spend a lot of time offering support- but don't get anything back.

Is this normal for friends who are childless- or is she really self-centred? I often find her behaviour very hurtful, but she thinks she is the most caring person ever- and she's be horrified if she knew I felt this, I'm sure.

Girl next door - i really don't know how you've managed to sustain this friendship for 25 years! But on the other hand, I noticed that a lot of my mum's friends were geared around having kids and that when we grew up she found that she had nothing in common with them any more and was left without much of a social circle. So at least you can be confident that your BF likes you for being you - not because you share a similar lifestyle and it's easy to be friends with you.

I'm 31 weeks pg with DC1 and can already feel the tension growing between me and some of my childless friends. It's horrible

My two closest friends don't have kids. They like ds and get on with him but I would never expect them to babysit and have never asked them.

I don't see why you would expect childless friends to babysit. Maybe they don't like kids, maybe they just don't like to look after them. They have (presumably in this case) chosen not to have them. Why should they be expected to look after someone elses?

I don't think it is selfish or self-centred.

NOt getting anything back from a relationship for you is one thing - and that is a reasonable thing to be wound up about.

She's friends with you not your kids.

Yes, but she IS my DS godmother! If she hadn't wanted that role she should have said- that, imo, requires a certain amount of interest in the child!

We met through work, she was my bridesmaid and soon.

We had years as friends before kids came along.

I don't think babysitting was out of the question- she knew we were pushed- that was 20 years back! - and didn't offer.

It's about doing what helps- I hate ironing, but if I had a friend who was ill etc I'd offer.

I have a friend who is childless and I have to say we have become less close as the years have gone on maybe because we have less in common, I don't know. I still regard her as a friend and make the effort to catch up with her when I go home -without the children!

She did astound me one day though when we were talking about a mutual friend that she sees quite often. Said friend has 2 children, she said "She is very good though, whenever you go around her house you would never know she had children except for a couple of photos. I do detest houses that shout kid as soon as you walk in"

Don't know what I was more shocked at, a house that you couldn't tell children lived in or her attitude towards it.

One of my closest friends is single and childless. She always asks about my DC's and like to some and see them. But i actually prefer her to come over when the DC's are not around so she and i can have a good old chat and gossip without being interrupted. And spending time with her takes me back to my young free and single days and i love it!

I don't have any expectations that my childless friends should help me with my kid, any more than they expect me to come round and do their housework!

Everyone has their own busy lives, and I don't think you expect any more of friends than their company.

If you see your friend in terms of what babysitting time you can get out of her then fine. Bet she's miffed at you for not doing her laundry!

It's pretty difficult to say you don't want to be someone's Godmother. And I would think it's pretty rare that childless friends offer to babysit - it's quite scary and stressful if you don't have your own kids. Doesn't mean she wouldn't if you'd asked. It's not fair to expect people to know what you want them to do for you.

I agree with discantus! Family is one thing -I expect support from them (and hope I give it in returnn). But friends? It's never really occurred to me that I might have 'expectations' of them - I just like spending time with them!

I think it is very understandable for a childless person not to want to babysit. Before DD I would have been terrified at the prospect of looking after someone's child and I'd be pretty nervous now.

Re. latest posters- don't think, with respect, you have read the thread properly. My kids are now adults- and don't need a baby sitter!

It is a bit harsh to accuse me of just wanting her to babysit etc- totally uncalled for , thanks, and not what I was saying at all. HOWEVER if the boot had been on the other foot, and she had long-distance family and was stuck for a babysitter, I wouldn't have hesitated to offer.

I think the comments from some MNs on this say more about their lack of generosity than they do about my feelings on the matter!

I was looking back to when they were younger...this friend is my "best friend"- we were really stuck when my kids were younger- our families 100s miles away etc-and I had 2 operations which meant I had to take it easy for weeks. At no point did she offer to help out.

I don't know if it is because she doesn't have kids, or if that is just how she would have been anyway.

That's all water under the bridge- what bugs me now is that she rarely asks about them, yet friends with kids talk about theirs all the time, ask about mine and vice versa.

I come from an area of the country where people all muck in and help each other- friends and neighbours- maybe some of you just haven't lived that kind of ifestyle?

Very respectfully, girlnextdoor - surely if your DCs are now in their 20's you have had lots of time to accept that she isn't the babysitting/taking an interest in kids type but that for your friendship to survive til now must count for something?

Could you have said something to her 15 years ago?

Cargirl, most likely it is a personality thing. I have two single and childless friends. I am 36, and they are my age. My children are 6 and 3. One of them is my oldest godmother. She is a loving and caring woman, always asks for my boys, hopes to have children herself one day, always plan our time together around what is convenient for me and the kids if we meet up in the daytime. She took a week off work and stayed with my when my oldest was born, for company and to help around the house. I just have to call, and she is right there. Of course, I reciprocate and help her when I can.

My other friend is a totally different cup of tea. She has no interest in my children, I am sure she find them a nuisance. Not them per se, but that I have them, as it means I dont do things with her at times of the day as I otherwise would be able to do. She gets stroppy if I cant just at the spur of the moment drop everything and meet her for coffee, or take a spontaneous trek up a mountain. If I have to cancel due to family or work emergency she throws a tantrum that rivals those my three year old throws. She has never offered to babysit, never offered any kind of help, and never been keen to tailor what we do around what my children can take part in. I DO go out with her occasionally without the kids, when I can. We dont talk about my children at all.

She has not had a boyfriend since age 17. She is quite stuck in her single career woman ways, and very self reliant.

I think it is a personality thing. It is not just because they dont have kids on their own. They may not have kids because they dont LIKE kids, so why should they like yours, or even take an interest. It is not who they are.

I THINK QUINTESSENTIALSHADOWS FRIEND IS ALSO MY SUPPOSED MATE.I WAS DUMPED FASTER THAN A HOT POTATO WHEN MY LITTLE ONE WAS BORN.TEXT MESSAGES FROM HER BECAME EXASPERATING BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T GET THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T JUST LEAVE A BREASTFED BABY ON THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT AND EXPECT THEM TO WAIT FOR YOU TO ROLL HOME.IM OFF TO A CONCERT WITH HER THIS WEEKEND AND SHE IS BEING VERY SPECIFIC WITH ARRANGEMENTS.WHEN SHE LAST VISITED SHE PROCEEDED TO SLAG OFF A PREGNANT COLLEAGUES AND BE RUDE ABOUT MY BABY.HER WHOLE BODY LANGUAGE SCREAMS I HATE THAT I DONT HAVE YOUR FULL ATTENTION AND I HATE YOUR KIDS.INCIDENTLEY SHE'S A SINGLE TEACHER WHO DOESN'T WANT KIDS SHE LOATHES THEM BEFORE A CERTAIN AGE SO I DONT FIT IN TO HER PLAN OF ACTION.THIS IS MY FIRST NIGHT OUT IN NINE MONTHS WISH ME LUCK!!!!

I THINK QUINTESSENTIALSHADOWS FRIEND IS ALSO MY SUPPOSED MATE.I WAS DUMPED FASTER THAN A HOT POTATO WHEN MY LITTLE ONE WAS BORN.TEXT MESSAGES FROM HER BECAME EXASPERATING BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T GET THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T JUST LEAVE A BREASTFED BABY ON THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT AND EXPECT THEM TO WAIT FOR YOU TO ROLL HOME.IM OFF TO A CONCERT WITH HER THIS WEEKEND AND SHE IS BEING VERY SPECIFIC WITH ARRANGEMENTS.WHEN SHE LAST VISITED SHE PROCEEDED TO SLAG OFF A PREGNANT COLLEAGUES AND BE RUDE ABOUT MY BABY.HER WHOLE BODY LANGUAGE SCREAMS I HATE THAT I DONT HAVE YOUR FULL ATTENTION AND I HATE YOUR KIDS.INCIDENTLEY SHE'S A SINGLE TEACHER WHO DOESN'T WANT KIDS SHE LOATHES THEM BEFORE A CERTAIN AGE SO I DONT FIT IN TO HER PLAN OF ACTION.THIS IS MY FIRST NIGHT OUT IN NINE MONTHS WISH ME LUCK!!!!

That's very good advice, overmydeadbody.

I think it's easy to forget how our friends feel. Don't forget, it's not just you that's changed things by having children, her world is different because of it too. Being a friend of someone with a baby isn't easy either. If she has no children of her own, why would she know anything about children? Why would she want to babysit? If she doesn't have any experience of children, then you'll probably find she'd be very nervous to look after them, it's alien to her. It's not that she's self centered, she just has her own baby free life and that's what she's comfortable with.

I would never expect my friends to babysit my child, whether they had children or not. My friends always ask after my dd, but that's really as far as it goes. And I'm ok with that because I understand it's something that they aren't familiar with. Why would they want to know about what dd did at baby group, why would they be interested in all the sick/poo stories?

I think it's too easy for mums to jump up and moan about friends without children. I think sometimes we expect things of them, and we have no right to do so. As long as she's taking an active interest in you, then what's the problem? Your kids are your world, but they aren't hers. It's unreasonable to expect her to change because you've had children.

OP, don't be too quick to get angry or upset with your friend. You just have different lives now. She sounds as though she is a good friend, and for all those years too. That's special, and rare.

Do you take an active interst in her life? Do you ask her about her daily activities, and request every detail to Friday nights events? Are you in any way a bit of her lifestyle without children, and maybe feeling a bit down that you've got to stay at home and tuck the children into bed, whilst she's out doing her own thing?

Sorry didn't read the whole thread, your kids are adults now! Ignore last part of my post lol!

Lots of my friends dont have children, and when we go out, they never ask about them, they never come up in conversation unless friends are begging me to come out somewhere- and i have to explain why i cant come.

It does hurt, and i know that once they have their own PFBs they will be the ones telling the whole world how wonderful their child is, how he is sitting up/crawling/giggling, as if their child is the first in the history of time to ever do any of these things.

I had this with my sister. i had my dd 9yrs ago and ds 4yrs ago, she never had any time for them, would take them out (forced!)for the morning once in a blue moon, but be sick of them after half an hour and come back early.
She just didnt care about them, didnt want to talk about them, acted as if they didnt exist really.

Now she has her first child, all i hear is "dd did this" and "dd did that", and "she is so much more intelligent than other babies her age, she is so advanced" blah blah blah.

I have to listen to every bloody detail, eg how they went swimming, and her dd was splashing her in the face and laughing hysterically etc etc.
And i just think - i had 9 years of all this with my dd, and you didnt give a shit.

I've been following this thread with interest. I am childless, not through choice, so am probably bitter and twisted, but I think the essential problem is: other people's children just aren't all that interesting, other than in relation to your own. Other parents will ask about your children, as they can relate it to their life, not because they're necessarily all that interested. Childless people just don't have the same frame of reference. Once they have their own children, they are of course fascinating, as to find one's own children endlessly fascinating is a biological imperative.

It seems unfair, but it's human nature, innit.

[awaits flaming]

not going to flame you - i for one dont find other peoples kids very interesting at all, and that is obviously because they werent grown from my genes.
But my own sister,who is 8yrs older and wiser than me, could at least have faked some interest in my children before assuming i couldnt sleep with excitement for hearing about what her new dd can do

Why are so many childless people on MUMsnet by the way??? (just out of interest, not being mean!)

It wouldnt have occured to me to be on this site pre-kids!!!!!

Maybe because there are lots trying to become mothers? And the conception boards get a bit dull after years of FTC. Relationships and AIBU are much more fun!

A bit O/T, but I do love the advice that Jane Fearnley-Whittingstall gives in the Good Granny Guide re sharing granny boasting - that you have to at least pretend to be listening to your friends' news about their grandchildren first, and that you have take turns nicely