How can I support my sons when one rejects his father?

[torbygirl]

DS1 is 19 and home after his first year at uni. His dad and I split over 10 years ago and boys are with me 10 nights per fortnight. Dad is 'a musician' who doesn't really work and is I work in a stressful job and boys have come to realise that I pay for everything and their dad is not a provider or a good role model.

When they were younger there were times when ds1 especially would refuse to go but as they have got older it has been easier as they are more independent. He's never bought them anything to have at his house so they always have to move stuff/take bags there and I facilitate this as much as I can by dropping stuff off if needed (luckily he does live in the same place as us so it's a 5 min drive). Ex can't drive anymore due to a medical condition but his lack of work ethic predates this.

Anyway, ds1 is incredibly driven and I think just can't relate to his dad at all, though they actually have more interests in common that ds2 has. He has moaned about him in the past but this week said in front of ds2 that he hates him and doesn't want a relationship with him. He said some nasty stuff really but I think he was just venting. Ds2 was upset as his dad has apparently already told him that he thinks ds2 doesn't like him anymore, so ds2 feels in the middle and awkward because now he knows it's true.

I don't know how to support them both in this. I've told ds1 just to vent to me if he needs to and not in front of his brother but I'm wondering if he's seriously saying he doesn't want to go there anymore? How would this impact ds2? How do I deal with this?

He’s an adult. It’s up to him whether he wants a relationship with his dad.

it’s not uncommon for children in this sort of situation to reach adulthood and really understand how useless one parent is.

this is not your problem and you can’t fix it.

Agree with octavia.

Surely they don't go there together any more as ds1 is an adult anyway?

Sit them down when ds1 is home (is he home now and that's why it's come to a head?) and tell them their relationships with their dad are individual and separate and nobody is responsible for their dad's feelings or relationship with anyone else.

Suggest (when they are together at the kitchen table with you, ir wherever) an agreement not to pass on or intervene on behalf of dad and in return not to vent about him, to one another. Dad shouldn't be allowed to make ds2 an unaware flying monkey, ds2 shouldn't be put in an awkward position by ds1 either.

If either needs to vent they vent to you and respect their brother's choice.

Sorry you and your boys are in this position

I'd stay out of it.
You don't have to manage or smooth their relationships.

DS2 is still a child (well probably a teenager under 18) though, so it is somewhat appropriate to help him and his brother navigating their sibling relationship in the context of their relationship with their father. Not to get involved in what to think of their dad but how to communicate as siblings.

Thanks all - tbh I'm more concerned about their relationship with each other than with ex. I think it is assumed ds1 will continue with the eow + 1 pattern now he's back (and he did it through the earlier holidays) but I wonder if I should tell him that it's ok if he doesn't want that and wants to just go for dinner etc. I think ds2 would be upset though...

DS1 definitely shouldn't have to go to his dad's eow to avoid upsetting his brother! He's an adult - how long is it expected he'll continue with that?
Both boys need to respect the other's relationship with their father and not try to emotionally blackmail - nor stage an intervention pointing out his flaws - to persuade the other into having a different relationship.

How old is ds2? Has he been staying with his dad eow without his brother in term time?

Tbh my parents were together but I didn't spend much of my university holiday with them other than Christmas (I know parents feel owed now because they're often funding a lot more, but it's valid to work in the university city or go travelling if he can afford to, and that certainly sounds more attractive than eow at dad's in this case!)