Supporting daughter who no longer wants contact with her father

[DunboyneDiana]

I’m trying to work out how best to handle a very difficult situation with my ex and our daughter. I apologise as this is so long but there's a lot to fit in!

We have two children DD, 13, and DS, 11. DD’s relationship with her father has now broken down to the point where she says she is done with him and does not want contact. DS is more laid back about it all (at least on the surface) and can take him or leave him IYSWIM?

I had years of his behaviour becoming increasingly angry and frightening. He drank heavily, shouted, punched walls, kicked furniture, and there was name-calling towards DD when she was only about eight. I reached the point where I felt I had to leave to protect the children and myself.

Before we had children he presented as a social drinker who kept fit, but after DS was born the drinking escalated. I later found out that he had had problems with alcohol long before we met, which I hadn’t known at the time. He also has serious mental health problems. He has been sectioned in the past and is now medicated, but I know he sometimes misses doses. He still drinks, although I don’t know exactly how much.

Over the years I have tried to encourage a relationship between him and the children, while also trying to keep them emotionally safe. I’ve repeatedly tried to explain to him that his own behaviour has damaged his relationship with DD (and DS but to a lesser extent as he 'picks' on DD), but he still frames it as something she has chosen or caused. He says things like 'this is how she wants it', rather than looking at what has led her to feel this way.

DD is very hurt, and that hurt is now coming out as anger towards him. When she expresses it, he tends to sulk, storm off, or act as though he is the victim, rather than showing any real insight into why she feels as she does. When this happens he does what he's always done - kind of blame me and ask me what I'm going to do to 'sort her out'.

I’ve told him that he needs to look at himself and work out why his daughter feels this way. I don’t feel I can or should force DD into contact she doesn’t want, especially given the history. At the same time, I’m conscious that this is her dad, and I want to handle it carefully.

My priority is, and always has been, keeping both children safe and emotionally secure. I don’t think he is currently capable of being the father DD needs, sadly, but I also don’t want to make a painful situation worse. He's nicer to DS, always has been and this is something DD and DS have both remarked on. DS doesn't especially relish this fwiw.

So I suppose I’m asking how do I support DD in her decision without becoming the blocking parent? I validate her feelings but I never slag him off apart from to say to her that the problem is, and always has been, him, never her. She honestly as far as teenagers go is not a troublemaker. She gets good grades, teachers love her, she works hard, is honest and her and I have a very close relationship. I could look into it if she was a nightmare but it's the opposite.

How do I protect my children from further hurt while leaving the door open, if she ever wants that in future? And what, if anything, should I be saying to him now? I do feel that it's a pointless exercise as he appears to lack any insight into why his behaviour is a problem. He never apologises for anything.

You are doing way too much dancing around him here. And also not properly validating her feelings and choices. This is clearly a product of his abuse of you. No need to worry about leaving doors open. Doors can always be re-opened. Just say that’s fine, I totally support your choice. You be the buffer between her and him. Do it in writing and make sure she doesn’t have to communicate with him at all if she doesn’t want to. If he contacts her and she doesn’t want that contact, she can block him if she wants. She’s old enough to make that choice and you just have to support that.

I saw little of my dad as a teen. I would have liked to have seen him even less. He died when I was 18. I have zero regrets. My adult life is a lot easier because of it. I think you need to put your own issues aside and simply support her. She’s made a choice. Done. You communicate that. You don’t need to fix him or change him. She can make a different one later in life if she wants.

Thank you. I agree with you. I still pussyfoot around him from years of conditioning because I honestly could not speak to him normally about issues without him losing it. I also still doubt myself because he always turned everything back on to me. She's already blocked him. I think he still feels he 'owns' me and that I have some kind of responsibility for him and his relationship with his children. I'll be the buffer.

I would be having absolutely no communication with this man outside of a court approved App.
“DD will not be coming to yours this week” is enough. If he wants to be arsey about it, let him take it to court.

I wouldn’t worry about being the blocking parent. She’s old enough to decide for herself. Don’t worry about him, concentrate on keeping her safe. Support her when she says she doesn’t want to go and handle that conversation with him if needs be. It doesn’t need to be prolonged - just “DD has decided not to contact you at the moment, and I support her in that.” Don’t explain, don’t be manipulated, just make the statement and leave it at that.

Speaking as someone who had to do similar for my then 13yr old not so long ago.

Thanks - I'd love that tbh but courts have never been involved (mainly because I suspect he'd rather eat his own foot than be under scrutiny). At the moment I have his messages archived because I dreaded them.

I think being the children of an alcoholic is very hard on a child, especially as your DD has been the target of his unpleasant behaviour. If she chooses not to see him for now, I think you have to support her decision. You can let her know that if she changes her mind further down the line, that's ok and you will support her whatever she decides.

I think you have done the right thing telling your ex that he needs to examine his own behaviour and that he is the one who has damaged his relationship with his daughter. He takes no accountability and until he does, it's likely that the relationship won't be repaired. If he communicates with you and rants about how you should sort her out, ignore it. Don't engage. You've told him how it is, you don't have to keep repeating yourself. If he wants to play the victim, let him. You don't have to engage or listen to it.

Support your daughter in protecting herself from him. Empower her to always have the final say over who she spends time with and what she is not prepared to put up with.

Support her with her decision making. If this was anothet adult treating her like this, it wouldnt be tolerated. DNA link doesnt excuse this or create a situation where it must be accepted.

I think your daughter is perfectly right not to want to have anything to do with a father who displays abusive behaviour and put herself in an unsafe environment.

Support her decision and as other have already say, if the father objects he can take this to court but he will have no chance of being able to force contact.

All you have to do legally is make her available for contact. At 13, it’s incredibly unlikely a court will insist she sees her father any more than she wants to.

Back DD. Let him do whatever it is he will do as a result.

Keep an eye out for DS bearing the brunt of XH temper.

@shuffleofftobuffalo so sorry you've been here, too.

Thanks so much for the clarity. I've found these posts immensely helpful. He has for years made me responsible for how our children behaved towards him. I often felt similar to how you did at school when you got in trouble if that makes sense? So clearly I've carried that on and somehow felt responsible for repairing their relationship. I don't think taking a step back is a bad thing.

How can a grown man behave so badly and still not see himself as the problem? It's astonishing to me sometimes.

I cut off contact with my own father when I was a bit younger than your DD. I was frightened of him, so my DM just went outside when he turned up to collect us and told him that I didn’t want to come anymore. There were a few pointed jabs and insults sent home through siblings, who were very firmly told not to repeat anything like that and any gifts were promptly returned.

Something that particularly helped me was my mum telling me that I didn’t have to see him if I didn’t want to, but that if I had anything I felt I wanted to say to him, I should consider when I wanted to say it, because anything could happen to any of us in the future, and she didn’t want me to regret not telling him anything I was saving for the future. I didn’t have anything to say at that time, or subsequently. He died in 2017 and I have no regrets. But it made me think about my choice very clearly and whether it was just needing a while as a break or whether it was a permanent thing. As it was, he blamed my mum for turning me against him, then blamed me for turning my younger sister against him when she made the same decision. No consideration at all that the issue was him. And I knew that would happen, so I was totally prepared for it.

I agree with everything pps have said.
Also, I agree with you that you need to take a step and work on not feeling so guilty then he won't have so much control over you.
He will never ever take responsibility for his actions which is the way with many people with substance misuse issues. You can take anything he says with a pinch of salt.
He will blame you for everything but that does not mean he is right.
I know this is easier said that done.
Pre arm yourself with the facts and a mantra mine was "he's talking shit"
I don't understand this insistence that children should always have a relationship with their parents

I’ve had a similar experience. You’ve said you will support her and that’s good ( as there seems plenty of evidence that this is justified). She’s not a difficult teen who you need to ‘sort out’, she’s growing up and can see his character for what it is. Children of alcoholic/narcissistic/abusive parents grow up fast because they can’t just be a child, they’re on high alert due to living in a combative environment. Your daughter has seen enough by now and can see what she is dealing with. How do you support her ? Well you might need to toughen up a bit in your dealings with him and take a harder line and I know it can be difficult when you’re dealing with a manipulator. Your ex is a grown man and not a nice one by any stretch, don’t let him have your ear too much, keep contact to what is strictly necessary, you don’t need to pacify him or feel guilty about choices you make in the best interests of yourself and your DC. Don’t put what he thinks above your daughter, she comes first. He doesn’t deserve your consideration, or your explanations, remember his behaviour led you to flee for your safety so fuck him, protect yourself and your DC at all costs. When he says ‘that’s how she wants it’ agree with him, leave it hanging, yes Bob that is how she wants it because you’ve been a terrible father and have fallen far short of what the kids deserve and until you can recognise that and take accountability, that’s where we are. It is not your job to fix the situation, you didn’t create it, he did, just support her, stand up for her and be there for her. She may change in the future or she may not, and that’s fine. Finally he is triangulating your son with your daughter by favouriting him. This is narcissistic abuse, he’s punishing her for standing up to him, he’ll try to blame her because nothing is ever his fault . Don’t entertain it, you owe him nothing, your daughter owes him nothing, he’s a shit dad and he’s reaping what he sowed. Cry me a river Bob. Do some research on co parenting with a narcissist and a narcissistic parent’s affect on children. I bang on a lot about narcissistic abuse on MN but as someone who has been through it and come out the other side, once you educate yourself you cannot unsee it and can learn some valuable tools for dealing with him. And do not let him turn your DS against you or his sister. Grey Rock him as much as you can. Keep your DS close so he is not manipulated and keep your ex at arms length as much as you can.

Thanks, @nochance17 agree I need to toughen up. I have been (and still am to an extent) scared of him and walked on eggshells for many years. I find it incredibly gut wrenching to bring up issues with him even now. And STILL to this day I sometimes question was it really abuse because he could be fine a lot of the time. (I'm having CBT to address this and make me a better parent/human). DD said today she will go no contact when she's older. I said she doesn't have to see him or speak to him if she doesn't want to.

I didn't even make the connection that the talking to DS but ignoring DD stuff is triangulation. God. In any case, he is unlikely to be able to alienate DS as DS is also starting to get the measure of him.

Thanks everyone, I feel more clear headed now.