Has lads’ behaviour and misogyny become worse since the 70s and 80s?

[FelicityShagsWell]

Not me, but my mum. She thinks the majority of them are coarse, laddish, foul language and go around in gangs. It wasn't as bad in the 70s and 80s apparently.

Right then!

I'm not sure - there would have been casual misogyny then but not the likes of Andrew Tate for example.

The 70s and 80s were famously non myognyistic, sexism didn't even exist 😐

It's unclear from your title " lads' behaviour " who your mum is talking about. Dies she mean actual young teenagers or does she mean the men who behave like young teenagers .

Imo behaviour in general has deteriorated incredibly and drunken , anti social foulmouthed behaviour is common. And not just by guys. Women behave like this too.

I don't know whether misogyny is worse now or not. Misogyny has always existed.

er, no.

absolutely not.

yes I was alive then

Yea there was sexism then but not as bad as the Andrew Taye stuff and maybe it balanced out more as the majority didn’t behave so badly.

what has changed is that men, even young teenagers, are far more exposed to horrible online porn than they were years ago, affecting relationships, attitudes and behavious

Read the words of people who speak the truth about the past; for example photographer Don McCullin, born in 1936, who talks about the violence he grew up amongst. If there was more violence then - which I think there probably was - then it's likely there was more sexism and misogyny.

She wasn't talking about the context of relationships rather general behaviour when out and about. She was talking about going out to eat on Saturday night and being seated near the open door to the patio which had a no smoking sign but "tattooed yobs" ignored it and smoke came through to the restaurant. They were loud and swearing apparently as well. Not sure what tattoos have to do with anything though.

I think there have always been yobs and probably always will be. I also think some older people will look back on the past with rose tinted glasses. After all, the past no longer exists other than in their own head, so they can make it what they want to be and therefore it probably feels safer and more comfortable. I remember my Granny tut-tutting about the "uncouth youth of today" and she's been dead for over 35 years, so that would take us back to the 70s & 80s!

In the 70s and 80s there was institutional sexism.

so for example the equal pay act was passed in 1970 requiring employers to pay men and women equally for the same jobs but it took a good few years of court cases for society generally to accept that women’s work was of equal value to men’s.

women were routinely sexually harassed at work - punched on the bum etc etc and this was just seen as something you put up with.

girls were simply not allowed to do a whole range of things because they were for boys.

so most men and boys at that point in time “knew” that men were better than women and their behaviour totally reflected that.

domestic violence against women was common and generally regarded by the police as “just a domestic”. The first refuges for abused women were just being set up.

rape within marriage was totally legal and absolutely fine. Rape outside of marriage often got the response of “well you provoked him by wearing a short skirt etc”

in terms of male behaviour on the street and in public, football hooliganism was a thing with almost pictched battles between groups of men. There were riots quite frequently in the early 80s.

women would be catcalled on the street and this would be totally expected.

My mum will also say that things were better back in the past too. She likes to tell us that there was no racism for example in Yorkshire in the 1950’s. It’s just didn’t exist 🥴. Children were a delight and everyone loved each other. I think she may be glossing over the alcoholic father and the sexual assault she suffered by 2 men in the street. The fact that rape in marriage wasn’t an offence and who knows about domestic violence in addition to that. Very much expected and tolerated. Plenty of gangs and violence over the years… the Teddys and the Mods for example. Football violence was huge when I was a teenager in the 80’s. It was on the news a lot. Racist skinheads were around and we all looked for the white laces in the DMs. There were riots all over the place. Do you want me to go on ? Teenage girls were in relationships with much older men and no one seemed to turn a hair. Aaliyah was “ in a relationship” with R Kelly at 14 and we all knew about it. Yes it’s was an absolutely charming time. Perhaps remind your mum about some of that.

Well yes she has a point that more people behave badly in public now than ever they used to.

We were shocked when we arrived in Nottingham for a visit last year on a Saturday early evening . It was a sunny day and the city centre was packed with large groups of drunken people. And actually it was the behaviour of the large groups of women that was generally the worst.We certainly won't be goung back there although I know it was probably typical city centre behaviour to be seen in a lot of places in the uk now.

I remember in the past Glasgow used to have the reputation for heavy drink and was pilloried for it.. Now it's every where that seems to have taken on the hard drinking public drunkeness culture that leads to unpleasant anti social behaviour

There absolutely was a lot of sexism in the 70s and 80s, and women have fought hard to gain equal rights that now exist. However, misogyny is definitely more rife now - women seem to be generally treated with disdain. And I don't think women help themselves - the "influencer" and social media culture of presenting the perfect image and women to be admired for their looks and figures, rather than brains and personality really hasn't helped, along with the rise of cosmetic surgery and tweakments. That feels more like the 1950s to me of the Stepford wife.

It’s hard to talk about “ going out to eat” and expectations around that because in my house it was a pretty rare event. A Wimpy occasionally as a kid. We didn’t have any fast food places in my town in the 80’s other than fish and chips so you wouldn’t have been sitting anywhere next to a “yob”. Before that time I’m guessing there were stronger class divides impacting on where you would go. There would be pubs that you just wouldn’t go into because they would be considered too rough.

I was in the police in the 80s. Things were different, but not necessarily better. There was less knife crime, less drug related crime, less "general" anti social behaviour, but the drinking/pub culture was a massive problem, far greater than today. Big pub fights were commonplace in the "rough" town centre pubs, virtually at least one per night shift.

We even put on extra patrols for the Friday night "teen" discos which were usually 7pm to 10pm as they often ended up with brawling on the streets outside as the teen lads would fight over the girls they fancied - that was typically 14-16 year olds!!

Difference was that we never expected to see knives - it was all fists and kicking, usually fuelled by cheap booze, and usually easy to put a stop to once the police turned up and the perpetrators were calmed down - usually by their friends so as to avoid any arrests.

It was always a good sight to see a few females around as the lads usually calmed down a lot quicker once a girl/woman started talking to them to get them to see sense.

As for mysogyny, I think, again, it was different. We all know about being propositioned, felt up, etc, but it was often more a matter of "banter" or flirting rather than feeling threatened. I think we knew it was just lads/blokes trying it on in the hope they'd get lucky, and they were usually very easily brushed off. Nowadays, there seems to be more threatening undertone - the harmless/innocent style of banter seems to have gone (no doubt the "good" guys now know it's not acceptable), leaving the predators who seem more likely to indulge in mind games, violence, online abuse, etc. I also can't remember "spiked" drinks being a thing back in the 80s. To be honest I'd rather have by bum smacked by a stranger in a pub trying his luck (but happy to be rebuffed and walking away) than be raped after having my drink spiked.

Overall, I just think it was easier to avoid trouble in the 80s (speaking as a late teenager/early 20 something) - easier to get yourself out of potentially bad situations, and there was less violence/abuse, virtually no obvious knife crime, very little drug abuse, etc. To a large extent, it's easier to deal with someone generally OK who's had a bit too much to drink than someone who's sober but has nasty/violent tendencies.

I think she’s right in some ways. I think misogyny now is frightening- stuff young men access online like Andrew Tate for example, and violent porn.
Also just general attitudes towards women are worse I think than when I was a teen in the 90s.
Like builders don’t wolf whistle anymore but I’d rather my teen daughter be whistled at than be strangled during sex.
Things are better in the way of women have more equality now though and more rights at work etc, in the UK anyway

This was a gastropub.

There definitely weren't any of those! If you could get scampi and chips in a basket, it was a posh pub 😂

Being felt up is not, and never has been, banter or flirting. It’s sexual assault.

Mob violence around football matches and in rural market towns was such a problem in the 1980s, the government set up a task force to address it.

Take a look at these photos: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/football-hooligans-uk

I think it’s a bit of a myth. The jokes made about women at that time tell you a lot. Men were confident to make them. Now, there is push back, and they get all bitter about it.

I actually think its kind of the same in many ways (back then it was still prolific but less of a light was shone / it wanst discussed and it wasnt as shocking) but the key difference is via the internet "men've unionised".

The internet enables certain types of men to "find their own kind" and fart about in echo chambers for endless hours.

The open anger towards women is more visceral now as its now mainstream (not a novelty) for women to exercise the rights their mothers and grandmother's fought for - having options / your own money / your own opinions which you feel free to express is way more normalised now and I think a lot of men dont like this loss of power.

Andrew tate, st. Charlie kirk, Andrew tate with a smile and a ring light (aka Steven snake oil barlett) they have massive platforms and courtesy of the Internet the wealth of knowledge on "how to optimise" plus "the algorithm" is diabolical.
they know how to gain audiences and monetise them while giving zero fucks about what its doing to the fabric of societies.

The 70s and 80s were more blatant. I had a boss who used to ask all us girl graduates if we were wearing stocking. Most jobs in that era, I put up with some 'banter' or someone pinched my bum. Call them out loudly and they'd usually slink away.

But I never came across the openly aggressive, drink spiking, hate-filled, genuinely dangerous nastiness we get today.

Maybe I was just lucky. Or maybe it was there but less well publicised.

As with everything else, it has become more polarised.

Most men now wouldn’t dream of being part of the casual sexism that was rife a few decades ago.

But a significant contingent has gone the exact opposite way.

Same here. I'm not saying it was acceptable back then, but relatively speaking it felt "safer" than the aggressive and dangerous men that seem to be on the prowl today that seem more likely to do real harm.

There were yobs in the 70s/80s. I can remember football hoooigans and the mods/rockers having mass brawls.
My own experience of boys at the time was pretty good - in general they were okay.
However, men. Leering from the age of 13, shouting out from cars even when I was with my mum. There was a thread about old Saturday jobs on here recently and posters recalled as teenagers being groped by male employers eg newsagents, butchers, store managers. It was absolutely rife.
And domestic violence was horrific - its was just a domestic then, it was not illegal for men to rape their wives.
I do think online porn has had such a terrible effect.
I think some changes have been good and there have been backward steps.