Conflicting religious / cultural values - separated parents, confused child

[TheLivelyAzureHedgehog]

Genuinely asking for a friend (she’s French and not on MN).

She had a baby when she was 21. She didn’t marry the father but they all lived together until the child was about 3, then they split up. He quite quickly went on to marry another woman and have a baby with her. He’s never been great about paying maintenance (he’s a chef and works short contracts / cash jobs). My friend has done really well for herself - finished uni, did a master’s, got a good job and always been independent, and she’s a great mum to her son who is 6 now. he sees his dad quite often (she has always been very encouraging of the relationship), and recently he went back to his ‘home’ country to meet his fathers family.

This is the problem now. The father is Muslim, from north Africa, and my friend is not, she is white, Catholic. It wasn’t really an issue when they were younger as he was not a ‘good’ Muslim. But recently and certainly since visiting home, he’s really starting to lay down the law about how his son should be raised. No alcohol, no girlfriends - he should only be playing with boys at school. No sex before marriage - yes he is saying this to him. And his opinions on how women should conduct themselves have hardened a lot… my friend is single, still young, likes to party and likes to wear tight tops and has a lovely, fun, flirtatious manner.

its very confusing for the boy. My friend can’t go along with what her ex is insisting on - but her son can’t live two different lives, two different sets of rules 🤷‍♀️

how can this be resolved?

Anyone?

Well, first of all, the child is 6. His dad can flap about saying no alcohol and no sex outside of marriage all he wants. More than likely he (the dad) will lose interest in the next 10 years, either in all these rules or in his son, but either way, one day his child will be 16 and be like trot on dad, what a weirdo!

The best thing your friend can do is continuing to raise her son in an open minded, multicultural way where he has exposure to lots of different ways of thinking and to help him develop his own critical thinking skills. It’s very unlikely that a child raised in a typical White British-French household and community is going to become radicalised in his teens. More than likely, he will push dad away. Don’t make it a battle though. Laugh it off, “well, isn’t daddy being silly! You can’t drink beer! You’re 6!”

I would put in place something (prohibited steps order?) to prevent him being taken abroad by dad again given his extremist views though.

It’s very unlikely that a child raised in a typical White British-French household and community is going to become radicalised in his teens.

my friend is white, French, catholic. The dad is black, Muslim, born in Mali but brought to France as a child and now has French citizenship. His new wife is of a similar descent (his dad often leaves him with his wife rather than spending time with him alone). And he’s not taking the boy ‘home’ to radicalise him - he’s taking him to see his cousins and grandparents, who are all of his native culture / religion. And the part of the city when they live is pretty mixed, he has a lot of Muslim / Arab friends as well as white French friends.

The dad has no qualms about telling my friend that she shouldn’t be drinking around their son, shouldn’t be dressing the way she does, and is to keep their son away from his best friend - because she’s a girl. She doesn’t follow his instructions - but their son wants to do what his dad tells him, and gets confused when his mum tells him it’s okay to do all these things.

Do you really think these are extremist views? For a Muslim father to want his son to live by what I thought are fairly standard Islamic rules re alcohol, contact with the opposite sex etc (idk, I’m not Muslim 🤷‍♀️). Oh and eating pork is another one - he’s insisting that he shouldn’t eat any pork even when the boy is with my friend and her family.

It’s also really changing the dynamic between my friend and her ex. Until recently she was the main parent, he pretty much left it all to her and only really saw his son when she pushed him. But between them they managed to keep things fairly amicable despite him being unreliable in terms of contact and financial contributions. Now that he’s a little older, and his only son, he’s taking a much more active interest in his upbringing it seems, and they are really at odds over this.

I’m really surprised not to get more responses on here. The uk (as I know it) is far more multicultural than France, and I thought the there would be lots of MNs who had found themselves having to balance two cultures / religions in family life. Maybe I’m wrong.

my friend is now really beating herself up that she has made such a crappy choice of father for her lovely boy, and not sure how to navigate this.

It's hard to advise after the fact. If your friend is Catholic, she would have known that there is biblical advice regarding marrying outside of the faith. If she chose to ignore that, and they are now married, what can anyone do?

They aren’t married, they split up some years ago and he married someone else.

When they were together religion wasn’t an issue because neither of them cared. It’s an issue now because he is becoming more observant and expecting her to fall in line with this, and to bring their son up in a certain way.

Her being Catholic isn’t an issue (she’s not religious), him being Muslim is - increasingly.

As his dad didn’t actually follow the rules, it is likely he won’t.

I see, thanks for clarifying.

Being split up doesn't really change anything, though, because the current trajectory was almost inevitable. The Catholic church would have advised against the union, for this reason.

For the record, I have a large Christian family and three of my aunts married men from Persia.

The entirety of their marriages were unhappy due to religious/cultural differences.

However, my aunts stayed in their marriages despite this, because they don't believe in divorce. I guess it is easier to influence raising children when together.

Tough spot for your friend, no doubt.

Kids tend to adapt to different parenting styles (can’t have chocolate before dinner at mum’s, can at dad’s etc) with the explanation that mum does things this way in this house. Dad thinks differently about things so he does things his way in his house. It’s an extension of that just more extreme. So (sadly) ‘dad won’t let you play with Marie when you’re at his house because he doesn’t think girls and boys should play together. But I think girls and boys can do when you’re in this house I’m quite happy if you want Marie to play here’. He’ll learn in due course not to mention anything his dad disapproves of. And your friend need to learn to ignore her ex. Maybe communicate through an app?

I’m afraid there’s not much that your friend can do, having already had a child with a man from a patriarchal culture. It sounds like his kids with his new wife are girls, so the son is the prized child/heir. I would be more concerned about where he is travelling with the boy to visit extended family. If it’s to a country where unwed mums aren’t acceptable, and he wants to keep the boy there with his family and his new wife, your friend has no chance of getting her son back.

Well it’s very simple.

the dad can’t make your friend do anything so she can drink as much as she wants and wear what she wants. If he objects she just ignores him.

the child being six is unlikely to be drinking or having sex before marriage anytime soon. Muslim families vary in how divided they prefer education to be - some will send children to single sex schools but many will not and a lot they do choose single sex schools will choose them at secondary level.

i presume the child is in either French state education or a private catholic school?

tp be honest most catholics would agree with the no sex before marriage thing and clearly neither your friend nor the boys dad took it seriously as they had a child while not married.

re the keeping the child away from girls - I would simply say that your dad believes that boys should play with boys and girls should play with girls but I don’t think that. School are unlikely to be on board with this either so the child is much more likely to accept the “french” way.

not eating pork I would be open to considering (but I’m vegan anyway).