How to set boundaries with intense in-laws??

[NoBoundariesBettie]

NC because some of this is identifying. DH and I have been married 10 years, 2 DC aged 5 and 2. We initially lived an hour or so from my in-laws, so saw them sporadically every couple of months. 3 years ago we moved to the same town as them. We have also stayed with them for short periods of time e.g. when having renovations done on our house.

In the first couple years of our marriage I had a couple of discussions with PILs along the lines that I found their way of interacting with us difficult - they would ask really personal questions, and give us what felt like constant (whenever we saw them) unsolicited advice on everything from how to weed the garden to how to do our finances to when we should have children. MIL even took it upon herself to advise me in private about "indicating to your husband that you're open to sex" which conversation I've bleached from my mind. When we were staying with them, if ever we said we wanted to have dinner just the two of us, MIL would say something like, "You don't like having dinner with us?". Once she overheard an argument between me and DH, and the next day presented me with a load of CBT worksheets she'd printed off the Internet, all about "reframing your thoughts". On holiday with them (in my early 30s!), I once unexpectedly got my period and wanted to use the (shared) rental car to go to the shop to get sanitary products. But they wouldn't let me take the car until I had told them what I needed to buy - at which point they were all embarrassed and apologetic.

Since having the DC and moving closer to them, this has ramped up so much. If they thought we should have e.g. a playpen, or a particular school water bottle, and we clearly said we didn't want it, they would just order it to our house anyways. When DS was 4 months old we were at theirs for dinner and MIL produced some baby food she had made because it was "time to start him on solids", ignored my protestations, and just fed him anyway until I physically removed him from the table. They have taken the DC to get haircuts without speaking to us first. Any parenting decision that's different to theirs warrants a long email or discussion about why we should do things their way (for context, they have described "their way" as "the most important thing is that a child is obedient"). Once DD didn't want to eat her dinner - she'd had tea at nursery already - and I got a long text about how I'm letting her run roughshod over me.

The whole relationship is just so much more intense than I'm used to with my own parents (who live 30 mins away and are fairly normal). My PILs invite us for dinner every couple of weeks. If we're busy, they invite us again 2 days later, and then the next day, and a couple days after that, until we accept.

MIL let herself into our house a couple weeks ago using the emergency key, and I messaged to ask her not to, thinking she might reply "Oh gosh, so sorry, of course I won't", and that be the end of it. And she did apologise, but also asked if I could meet her to talk about boundaries. I said I don't have the headspace for a big discussion right now (which is true; all of my non-parenting energy is going to something at work for the next couple weeks), but that I do feel they have crossed some boundaries over the years, and gave some examples. I've since received multiple messages and emails from both MIL and FIL, apologising and asking if we can meet to discuss. When I didn't reply to the messages they gave DH a gift - a mug with a "stay calm and think positive thoughts" type mantra on it - to pass on to me.

The other side of the story is that on the face of it they are very kind, provide us with ad-hoc childcare every 4-6 weeks, and contributed to our house deposit.
But I feel completely trapped and smothered by their intensity and complete lack of boundaries. I wish we'd never moved here! I know from previous experience that if I try to discuss this with them they will be initially apologetic, then either defensive or dismissive, and then become even more intense and start showering me with messages, gifts and invitations. But nothing will change in terms of them passing judgement on how I am and how DH and I raise the DC. I feel so stressed any time a message from them pings up on my phone in case it's another random parenting evaluation or something really personal and intrusive.

Thanks to anyone who read this far!
Aside from faking my own death and moving to Panama (lighthearted!) what can I do??

What does your DH say? I think I would limit contact a bit to regain some control. I don't know what else to advise because I get the impression they're thick skinned and wouldn't listen.

Why can’t DH tell them to back off?!

I thought mine were overbearing!

I don’t reason, argue or debate because it’s a colossal waste of energy and only focuses their stubbornness. I just take action.

On rare occasions I’ve just taken the dc and left their house, firmly and politely, leaving dh to do any talking. They thought I was unreasonable, which was their prerogative. I can’t control what they think but I didn’t have to stay in that situation or leave my dc in it.

I installed a bolt on our front door “for security” but in reality for privacy. When we changed the locks a few years later dh never gave them a new key but I think that is in large part because I’ve held boundaries with them that has allowed him space to breathe and find more normal boundaries with them too.

I see them at a frequency that suits me. I realised that there was no amount of visits that would ever be satisfactory, so I realised that I may as well suit myself, DH and the dc see them more often.

I don’t open messages or voicemail immediately until I’ve psyched myself up. I take time to reply too. Sometimes I don’t directly, just let dh pass it along. This has reclaimed a lot of peace.

I also stipulate conditions (to dh) about the terms of acceptance of financial help, eg they can pay for dc’s music lesson but if dc wants to give up that’s also fine. It was a paradigm shift for him to recognise that money doesn’t buy control. Fortunately we’ve never needed their financial help. They have been generous (and despite the tone of this post I am grateful) but I will cheerfully do without than accept control and interference.

How reliant are you on them for childcare? Is there a way to lessen that?

The thing about boundaries is that you can only have boundaries for yourself - they are decisions about what you will and won’t do, will and won’t tolerate. You can’t control anyone else. The key is to identify that difference. You can’t make them do, or not do, something.

The whole point is you shouldn’t HAVE to be as specific about boundaries as you are quite obviously going to have to be.

I’ve never heard of people like you write about, I mean…🤷🏻‍♀️. No excuse but is your husband their only child? Not that that makes one iota of difference but unfortunately it directs all their interest/attention on him.

The only way forward is to stop accepting gifts whatever they might be etc - that’s giving them another launchpad to continue their intrusion, and they are above all intrusive! And have yet another explicit/serious discussion about their involvement in your family life. Anything outside of that is ignored. Oh and get your house key back off them!

You need to move

I can’t believe you had to physically walk away with your 4 month old as she tried to feed him- that’s the point I would have gone low contact.

I think you need to put all communication through DH - I don’t even have my IL’s phone numbers.

Remove the emergency key if they can’t be trusted and find a paid babysitter so you can start baking more solid boundaries.

Although I do think if you are using someone’s house for free accommodation it’s a bit rude to say we are only going to have dinner the two of us tonight.

Where's their son in all this? He's the one who should be dealing with his parents.

Is he on the same page as you?

I have experienced lack of boundaries from parents and in laws. It is really hard and I feel for you. In reality there is only so much you can do to manage this but I’d encourage you to start immediately, otherwise you will look back and see how much of your precious life and time when your children are small, was ruined by this shadow.

I know it is a huge thing but I’d move house. If you really can’t move away change the locks immediately. Withdraw regular contact to once a month at most. Do not use them for any childcare ever. Block their
email addresses and phone numbers. Disable voicemail (life changing for me). Have a stock phrase ready and rinse and repeat every time they push your boundary - ‘I’ve asked you to not to comment on our parenting. Don’t do it again’. Don’t be drawn into a debate by them. Dismantle all the channels they use to undermine you.

So much of this reminds me of my ex inlaws. It's so difficult to escape because on the surface they are helpful. But this helpfulness is the sunny side of control.

Why is DH passing on their mug?

Does he think it's funny? Does he enjoy stoking the fires of conflict between you?

Why didn't he just say no to it, or dump it on the way home?

You will never change them. You can only change or manage your own response to them. There are some good suggestions on this thread already - change the lock, don’t give a key, fit an internal bolt so they can’t walk in. Put them on mute and choose your own schedule of when to answer messages . Be more busy / less available. Stop telling them what you’re going to buy or do for the DC. And stop letting them do you favours, childcare etc. If you allow them sole care of your children to help you out when it suits you, it’s not really fair to then switch on and off their involvement in your lives. If you want less interference you have to give them fewer opportunities for access, advice etc.

This sounds suffocating, but you've somewhat walked into it by accepting such a lot from them in terms of spending time actually living with them and accepting what was presumably a lot of money, in terms of a house deposit, plus childcare. Unfortunately a lot of parents implicitly attach unbreakable super strength strings to gifts and favours, and probably feel they have bought the right to be thoroughly enmeshed, plus it putting you permanently in an infantilised and indebted, dependant position of having admitted to needing to be helped financially and with the children.

To extricate yourself properly you need to stop letting them help you - don't accept childcare or money and be self sufficient, otherwise people as blatantly interfering as your in-law will believe you are admitting to not being able to manage without their help and needing them to parent you.

Get your key back. Don’t let them babysit kids if you don’t trust them. Leave dh to arrange seeing them and don’t go if you don’t want to.

Their help comes with strings attached, they have huge need to parent you all, once you let them help they take over. No amount of discussion will get them to back off and respect boundaries. They simply can’t back off and face up to the fact their role has changed from parenting a small toddler to having a grown up son who has his own family and you and he are capable of adulting and being responsible enough to bring up your own children.
It might help you to think of their inability to let go as a black hole of neediness that is only soothed when they take over and act like you are all their toddlers.
You need to pay for childcare and not rely on them at all. Change your locks and don’t give them a key. I would move further away. Tell them it’s not up for discussion they need to respect that your children are their grandchildren and unless you give permission they don’t interfere in your decisions as the DC’s parent. You feel smothered and are thinking seriously of moving away. If they get dismissive or defensive just ignore email messages and stay away from them.

Living too close to them, needing help with childcare, babysitting or loans gives them power over you. Being self sufficient, telling them their advice is unwarranted because you will do it your way and their gifts with blatant advice on ignored. If they buy gifts for children you have said no to then return them to them.
You have to uphold your boundaries so when they ordered and sent playpen to your house you calmly drive over and give it back to them. You tell them you told them you didn’t want one so returning it to them. When they invite you for dinner tell them you are too busy this week and offer to come over the following week. If they persist in inviting you a few days later you ignore calls messages. Don’t leave your children with them so they can’t take them for haircuts off their own back.
You do it firmly and calmly and don’t back down or let them get away with it.

I’m picturing Barbara Streisand and Dustin Hoffman from Meet the Fockers!!

All the advice in here of getting them out of your life is a bit ridiculous given the help you’ve got from them to date but I’d meet for her boundary talk and just say you just want to do the parenting thing and that means you want to make the decisions that impact your child’s life because it’s exciting for you (I’d say she’s more likely to empathise if you go this way) but you’re grateful for having them there and you’re lucky etc etc (I’m still picturing Barbara Streisand so thinking over positive might go better!!) Best of luck!

Just let your husband handle it, surely?

They sounds very similar to my in-laws and when I/we tried to put in boundaries it all blew up to the point I’m no contact.

What others said upthread, don’t accept any help from them and that includes holidays/money/childcare etc.

Why on earth did you move closer?!

OP, I sympathise, because once I got married, I got the impression that I had become a possession of my ILs, whereas before we were married I scarcely saw them. I too have had conversations that have been bleached from my mind….The problem is that if you are reasonable, they won’t be - and the interrogation over what you wanted to buy really resonates! Eventually we we ended up living on the opposite side of the country from them, so they were very much less in our lives. My MIL was very well-meaning, but even her sisters described her as someone who liked to be in control. Thankfully we didn’t have WhatsApp in those days, so they had to make an actual phone calls, which thankfully they didn’t do very often. There were also periods of NC for various reasons. All I can say is: you won’t change them, but you can spell out in words of one syllable that DC is YOUR child and you’ll raise him as you see fit. (I once said this to MIL whose response was, “Well DC is actually yours and DH’s, or at least I presume he is as I have no way of being able to tell.”) And yet in spite of this, MIL was a genuinely kind person most of the time - it was mostly that she and FIL would steamroller their way in and want to control us.

You really need to sit down with your husband and act as a team in coming up with a plan of the list of boundaries you two need to enact, and how they will be enacted. And do explain to your husband that they are his parents, and so most of the time, he should be the spokesperson to them when they overstep.

Right now, they see you as the bad guy and he seems to be passively in the background, so they are basically winning since it's two against one (you).

If your husband makes excuses and isn't willing to step up, it's time for you to let him know the seriousness of the matter by telling him you want to attend marital counseling. Because a therapist would definitely tell him for the good of the marriage, that he can't allow his parents to have free reign over his family.

His parents need to suffer consequences for their misbehavior. Discuss those rules with your husband which he will reinforce. If you're all at their house and they speak about something inappropriate, you all go home immediately. If they are at your house and do the same, he will ask them to leave. He needs to tell them if they send you or him messages advising you all about how you should be running your lives, that they will be blocked for a week following said message. He also needs to speak up upon your behalf if they say anything negative about you, and tell them that you're his wife and nobody is allowed to speak about you that way.

As said, items you've said you didn't want should be returned to them, becoming a problem they need to deal with. Of course, praising and rewarding them if they start behaving is also a good way to teach people how to treat you.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

You have to move away.

Make plans to repay the money and use proper childcare. That's why they insert themselves into your life so much imo.
They are the third parent to your dc and third home owner of your property..

There are SO many wonderful options but if DH is a weak lilylivered mummy's boy then some options are negated

You will never change your in laws

Thank you so much for your responses! Sorry I haven't checked in until now. I have to say I was expecting a lot more "you sound like an ungrateful cow" tbh!

To answer a couple of questions, DH has stepped in quite firmly before, e.g. when MIL used to lift DS from my arms without asking when he was a baby. He's usually the one to respond to (usually decline) invitations; I tend to ignore them. He has also recently told them that he and the DC can have dinner with them once a month on a Saturday evening and I may or may not join. The childcare is tricky as I don't ever ask them. If I need help I'll trade playdates with a friend or pay for extra nursery hours/ after school club etc. But he asks them when it's his "turn" to be with the kids, e.g. twice a month I book a 12-hour overtime shift on a Saturday or Sunday as my regular (PT) hours don't pay enough for us to survive on. On those days, I'm out of the house from 6.30am until 10.30pm so he'll sometimes ask his parents to have them for a couple of hours. He doesn't think there is a connection between them doing childcare and them trying to control our parenting as he says they've always been like that. To some extent he doesn't realise how abnormal their way of interacting is, because he was immersed in it growing up. Unsurprisingly he is very introverted and distrusting of people, and somewhat avoidant. So I wouldn't describe him as a lilylivered mummy's boy - he does confront them about things - but also feels that I always see the worst in them when their intentions aren't consistently bad. Also, in many cases, PILs have spoken to me privately so DH wasn't privy to the conversation to offer any rebuttal.

@category12 The mug was boxed and wrapped so he didn't know how passive-aggressive what it was. When he gave it to me he sort of rolled his eyes and said "my parents have got you a gift to buy your soul". Between him and me our interactions about them tend to be quite eye-rolley-jokey.

@Bumblingbee92 We moved closer so that we could afford to buy, and because my (relatively normal, IMHO!) family are also in the locality. And because I hadn't fully grasped how unhinged my ILs were 😩

The suggestion to sit down with DH and make a list of boundaries is a good one - he's very logical and pragmatic, good at planning ahead but not so good at addressing things in the heat of the moment.

Thank you also to those who articulated how our accepting help from them has given them power over us. My parents would give the shirt off their back to anyone in need and expect nothing in return, so it never occurred to me when we accepted ILs help that they might then feel we owed them something. And I hadn't been able to articulate the link well prior to the replies here so thank you!

SIL was like this with PIL. But then she had also taken a contribution for a house deposit which PIL took as a right to have a say in every aspect of their lives. Luckily we were not offered one. Very rarely is anything ever given without strings. This will only get worse as they get older. I wouldn’t have moved closer to them in the first place.