How common is it for a man to change in the context of a marriage (re: cheating / lying / betrayal)

[SofiaJessica4]

Posting this as a general question as it's not specific to me but a few situations I've seen recently.

If a newly married man (first five years of marriage) cheats or attempts to, on dating apps, contacting exes etc, what are the chances he'll change and the marriage can be happy and successful going forward. Let's say he goes to therapy etc and addresses why. Perhaps doesn't drop out of therapy after a few sessions. If the wife can forgive, the marriage was otherwise good, etc. How to rebuild trust? Or how about short affairs in the context of a longer marriage involving kids, another thing I've sadly seen quite often, but where the couple did stay together.

More generally, do these people change? How about compulsive liars, or situations with financial infidelity (both situations I was in where I ended up giving up and leaving). I feel like you have to set clear markers for change in order to orient yourself in the marriage and to know when to leave. Often the cheating / lying / addiction behavior is so ingrained it's almost impossible for that spouse to be different.

If those behaviours don't change, can people really be happy? Can you have a happy marriage long term without trust? I felt I couldn't which is why I gave up, but I have seen women who have remained married for 2 decades and seem happy. I realise it's complicated of course like most things in life

History is the best way to predict the future and traits like deceitfulness in a relationship don’t change.

I can think of multiple men I know who have repeated this pattern.
Some where the wife has got rid of them when she eventually found out (the men never admit it), some men who have left after deciding that the grass is greener with a new woman and all have gone on to do exactly the same again until they finally get to an age where they can’t easily attract yet another new woman and so the current partner is the “lucky” one left holding the parcel when the music stops.

It isn’t so much the actual sex with someone else which is an issue it is the calculated lack of respect and the selfish cruelty of deciding their needs come (no pun intended) first and the cowardice not to be honest with a spouse and leave the relationship cleanly before starting another one.

If my DH ever cheated on me I'd never be able to forgive that level of betrayal. The marriages where they've stayed together and look happy are just that. Outwardly they'll make out they're happy but really they just didn't want to downgrade their lifestyle so they stayed and pretend to be happy when really they'll never truly forgive and forget. How could you really?

I 100% can't even understand your message. Want to type it in English so I know what you're talking about?

Off the top of my head, I can think of several relationships where I know there was cheating.

One had both husband and wife cheat, they got over it with a lot of therapy and seem to be happy 20 years on.

One the husband cheated extensively and is now treating his new partner like shit, though don’t know if he’s cheating or not. Goes out all the time and they fight a lot.

One the husband cheated, which I learned after I had a bad vibe about him and felt he was overly flirty towards me. Supposedly they are happy (lots of social media posts to that effect) but personally I think he probably just got better at not getting caught.

One the husband of a friend cheated with the wife of another friend. Both couples broke up, the husband has a new girlfriend who he is supposedly serious with but keeps going back to the wife and hinting that he’d get back together in a heartbeat if she wanted to. The wife of the other couple has a new partner and they are well known to be swingers.

I left my ex for long term deception and financial infidelity. As we coparent I’ve had the chance to catch him in lies multiple times since we broke up, and his spending addiction is clearly still in full flight.

Overall I think the takeaway is that people tend not to change.

Dude I'm way too fucking old to be sat playing Roblox especially with a random on the internet. Mumsnet really isn't the place for teenage boys🙄

@CamillaMcCauley

Overall I think the takeaway is that people tend not to change.

^ this nails it.

People who cheat all have the same characteristics - poor coping skills, entitlement issues, are conflict avoidant and lack empathy.

Oh and I just remembered another; the husband cheated years ago, the wife forgave him; he was recently fired from a high-level corporate job for sexual harassment. They’re still together but I think mostly because it would be too much of a financial hit for her to leave.

In my experience they don’t change. In the early stages of our relationship I caught my husband liking women’s photographs on Instagram and adding women he met who were supposedly girlfriends of his mates etc. We were both young and I assumed he just needed to grow up but 15 years later he had a year long physical affair with someone he first started contacting via Instagram.

Overall I think it’s a character issue. Someone who needs this type of validation from others will always need it. Also I think someone who is a liar is likely to always be a liar.

I'd say the chances are zero of him changing, even after therapy. The issue is that he just doesn't care about the relationship and fundamentally thinks that his wife doesn't matter. That doesn't change with therapy

And of course there will never be happiness and trust after cheating

I don't think men change. Some partners ( women usually) chose to turn a blind eye and paper over the cracks to preserve the family unit, lifestyle etc but l doubt they would be able to forget and would always be on the alert for any sign of betrayal. Despite a long marriage l chose to part ways with my husband as l felt l could never trust him again.

Once my trust is broken im out.
I value loyalty and honesty.
How do u look someone in the face who has abused your trust?!

As ever with MN all situations can only be seen in black and white. ‘Once a cheater always a cheater’ is a favourite phrase based on not a shred of evidence. I have children in their 30s so my friendship group is mostly made up of their parents. Of maybe 50 friends and acquaintances I can think of only 3 or 4 who are still married to each other. Most of the others are on second marriages following infidelity.. at least 15 of the ones I can think of are married to affair partner and have now been in longer marriages than the original one.

Ultimately the reason for the betrayal is the catalyst and if that catalyst is not there in follow on relationships-then the infidelity does not re occur . Sadly the most common reason is the woman switching all her attention, love and devotion to babies and children. This can leave some men feeling shut out, irrelevant and lonely. It also makes them super vulnerable to anyone showing them affection… and off they go.
Im not saying it’s right for one minute . Should men grow some backbone and just accept that child bearing and rearing IS going to make their love relationship lower priority. ? Yes perhaps - although personally I think both parties would do well to prioritise both. but it was the most prevalent real life experience of events that lead to infidelity.

I can honestly say that now 20+ years later there have been no 3rd marriages I can think of although a handful have broken down through alcohol and/or gambling issues but none from subsequent infidelity.

In my experience, no. I caught STBEXH the first time engaging in flirty banter 🙄 with a female friend over text 8 years ago. It was massively one sided (him) she didn’t sound interested but the intention was there. I forgave and forgot after a lot of conversations and promises.

But I caught him again 6 years ago, flirty banter but it was both of them this time. He said he felt lonely (no shit, I had a 3 year old and a newborn then we were in Covid and I was trying to WFH with both kids). I was in the depths of PND and I couldn’t leave because I wasn’t strong enough. So we reconciled and I thought we were doing great. The best we’d ever been.

But I caught him out again a year ago. I got all the usual promises of going to therapy, he’ll change etc etc. Thankfully I am stronger (mentally) than I was 6 years ago and we’ve separated (currently selling the house and divorcing). It’s been fucking hard, but I’m glad he’s no longer my problem. I have no doubt he’ll do the same to her once the shine has worn off and he’s needing a bit of validation again.