Need guidance Re: divorced in laws - Failed rule No. 1 wive's handbook

[Ewg9]

Will start by saying that I think I may have cocked up as a wife in the wive's handbook rule No. 1, but it was accidental and never meant to kick off.

I have been in trouble with husband and his family - specifically MIL, BIL and SIL. Because I invited husbands father my FIL and his wife to Christmas Day. I did so as a very tired new Mum and out of guilt as FIL and wife were excluded from our DC's first Christmas as a fresh new baby. MIL offered to host us before baby arrived, baby was born a month before Xmas and it was convenient as we lived next door. I asked if my parents could come as it was their first GC too and I thought they would like to share the day with the GC aswell. MIL agreed and my family accepted. Then it came up about her Ex my FIL and the attitude was 'my house my rules' which i couldn't dispute. They had a bitter divorce and she has spoken badly about him as a husband and father. She then goes and tells her ex hubby that she's hosting my family for Xmas day...FIL has never said anything about being hurt but I felt awful. I'm not sure I wanted to lie but felt it was rather nasty. After Xmas he came over about New Year and I felt racked with guilt and really awkward so I said 'Maybe we could host you next year?' FIL said that would be nice and that was it. BIL was present when I made the suggestion and fed it back to husband and MIL. All hell broke loose. MIL set upon me, having a go and raising her voice. I tried to explain the invite wasn't to cause upset but I was trying to be fair and kind and that they were excluded and he was a Grandparent too. I advised she was welcome to come aswell and share in the day and she could come and go as she pleased as she was only next door if she didn't want to stay all day. She went up a notch and was all 'Then I'll be on my own then!', Really angry with me. She is single. I held my own with her, whilst my Husband sat there throughout looking sad and cross. BIL spoke up and told his Mum she shouldn't speak to anyone like that. BIL sent me a message afterwards apologising as he'd raised the topic of the plans for the following Xmas in the first place. So I think I failed as a wife because I didn't discuss the suggestion with my husband in the first place and should have gone with his decision which is to always have Xmas day with his Mum. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this kind of dynamic between divorced in laws? Do I need to avoid all of them? Is it fair to not be willing to share Xmas day? I was hurt but not surprised that husband didn't speak up for me, but I am pretty feisty myself when pushed. To conclude, MIL is polite and civil but will never forgive me for having to share Xmas day with her Ex and BIL and SIL are no longer speaking to me because they are also really cross that I made the invitation too without discussing it with them aswell... Does any of this sound reasonable? Again, any advice appreciated and thanks for getting this far.

Need to add, FIL is a quiet man, abit inexpressive and i wonder if he's autistic. I have no issue with his, he tries in his way as a FIL and Grandad.

I mean, it’s normal to discuss Christmas plans with the other person in your household before inviting people, especially their family members, but other than that, I’m struggling to see what you’ve done wrong.

BIL and SIL are no longer speaking to me because they are also really cross that I made the invitation too without discussing it with them aswell Well those two can fuck right off, for a start. What the fuck has it got to do with them if you invite someone else to spend Christmas Day in your home? The idea that you need to discuss anything at all with them is hysterical. Why aren’t you outraged that they think they have the right to demand you run your plans past them first?

She went up a notch and was all 'Then I'll be on my own then!', Really angry with me. She is single And she thinks she’ll be spending every Christmas from now until her death with you and your family, does she? Do you want to do that? Did your rather pathetic sounding husband ask you how you felt about his plan?

I held my own with her, whilst my Husband sat there throughout looking sad and cross Nevermind you failing him as a wife. He’s failing you as a husband. You’re his wife. He left his childhood home and started a new family unit with you. That means you and your family together come before his mum. If he doesn’t understand that then he’s not ready to be a husband.

Of course you should have discussed it with your DH before inviting FIL but I get that you were a tired new mum and spoke out of trying to be kind and fair. If DH really doesn't want to host him on Xmas day, maybe you could speak to him and say that you've accidentally double booked yourselves and are going to your parents but would love to host him Boxing Day?

I don't think you should always have to host MIL on Xmas Day though - can't BIL and SIL have her some years?

Ok, I’ll be the first to say it. You have a DH problem here. Sat watching as his mother ripped into you for a gesture that came from kindness? Fuck that.

MIL is bloody nasty and your DH is weak. They're annoyed at you because they've always pondered to her to prevent these explosions and you haven't. You've done nothing wrong.

You absolutely should not have to spend every single Christmas with MIL, she is one of 3 sets of grandparents.

Thanks for the replies, it is a mess. Yes, I think BIL and SIL being cross is ludicrous and when my husband told me that my BIL would have liked to have been consulted first my response was 'I didn't realise I was married to him too'. Since our child came along, I see a very unhealth dynamic, they interfere and overstep alot. I feel very stressed with it. Thankyou for the acknowledgement.

I think you need to start thinking long term here. Because it sounds like your husband doesn’t have either the will or the desire to put you before them. So either he has to change (or at least want to and see that he needs to), or you have to accept their interference, in order for this marriage to work. I think you should probably talk to him about this; discuss with him why he doesn’t have any boundaries in place and whether he really believes that they should be as entwined with your lives as they are currently.

So your BIL stuck up for you to your MIL, he then apologised to you, but now he is not talking to you because of the situation?

How did it happen that you live next door to MIL? Was this something she pressed for and your husband is prone to pleasing her in all things?

I'd have a long discussion with your husband about you two acting as a team. And it's his family so he should mainly be the spokesperson on these family-strife topics since it's his blood. You shouldn't be made out as the bad guy while he just sits there squirming.

If he can't be a team player with you, it's time to seek out a couple's therapist who can show him that his primary family needs to come before extended family in these sorts of issues.

Explain that you two need to show a united front when it comes to everything including holidays. I'd say something like: "I don't want to be stuck in one tradition like Christmas plans. There might be a day it'll be my parents turn to host us. There might be a time we choose to go on vacation at that time, or spend it with friends. But we can always do things with your mother on an alternative day during that week which is convenient for both." And then explain he will be the one delivering that news and to do so with conviction--that there will be no argument.

His mother has likely set up this dynamic in her family. If she's not happy, nobody is. It's worth discussing with your husband, who is probably so used to this and thinks it's normal, that subconsciously he doesn't realize how he's being manipulated and it needs to stop.

You say his relatives overstep, so get a book on boundaries and read it together with your husband. Or you might find articles online, which will give you two the skills to navigate dealing with family bullying more effectively. Good luck!

Your husband is so enmeshed with his family it's ridiculous.

Your husband is the problem. If he would put you ahead of his mother and his brother and SIL, he'd stand up for you. He could have stopped your MIL's tirade. But he sat there like a lump on a log listening but looking sad and cross. Did that inaction cause you to lose respect for him? Does his lack of insisting you be treated with civility by his family make you lose respect for him?

I think he needs therapy to de-enmesh from his family. You're out there on your own right now and he tolerates his family shouting at you and treating you rudely and disrespectfully.

Ask him why this invite couldn't have been a civil discussion rather that a nasty fight?

He's going to have to decide who he's going to prioritize. You can tell him his lack of spine is an unattractive look and he's going to have to decide who his priority is. If he chooses to support Mom and sibling, maybe it's time for him to move back into their family home since he's having so much difficulty detaching from them. You love him and would like to stay with him, but his divided loyalties are making that impossible to continue the marriage.

I think you and your child should spend next Christmas at your parent's house.

Your DH is unhealthily enmeshed with his mum and siblings and living next door to your MIL sounds like an utter nightmare. How did that even happen? I presume that it was your DH's idea?

Sorry that you are going through this when you are meant to be enjoying this as a new family.
to answer your question- we have mil/fil , M/SF, F. So a similar dynamic apart from the divorcees get on. It’s the in laws that are the issue. We staggered the Christmases between the two families.
it did mean that the wider family had to fit in or do their own thing but that did happen.
your issue is that you have a MIL who is inflexible and it sounds like DH and his BIL/SIL won’t say no to her.
you do need to address this otherwise it won’t improve, it will get worse. Your DH needs to be on the same page as you. He needs to stand up to his mother. He’s a grown man not a child, he has his own child now.
Much as it came from a kind place, you shouldn’t have invited his father without discussing it first, however, he’s probably overjoyed at the invite so I wouldn’t rescind it. That would’ve cruel.
MIL had the first Xmas, she’s the one who wouldn’t share the Xmas so now she has to realise that she is the one missing out through her actions. She just doesn’t like it as she made the bed and now the bed sheets are a bit scratchy!
how did you end up living next door? (I can’t imagine anything worse)

Your MIL, BIL, and SIL, have WAY too much input into your family life. It should be between you and your husband with each of you having an equal vote, and negotiation and compromise when you disagree. His other family members do NOT get to overrule you by casting additional votes that make you feel outnumbered. Nor do they get to overrule you by making you feel so pressured that you feel you have no choice but to give in to what your husband (i.e. your husband and his mother and his brother) want.

Do your parents get included by your decision, or only when your MIL gives permission for your parents to be included?

Thanks again, yes so I don't want to make myself identifiable but this incident with MIL actually happened December 2023. FIL and step Mum came for Xmas with them the following year. SIL was off during Xmas day with me. I acted as normal with her but she has basically blanked me in my house and at MIL's since that Christmas...other things have happened since then which have been aggravated by her ignoring me. Before the Xmas with FIL, just before, we did have a disagreement over a Xmas gift and she didn't like me asserting that she had missed my point. I was unhappy that MIL had ignored my wishes regarding a gift I had explicitly said I wanted to buy for DC. SIL said MIL should still give the gift. On reflection I shouldn't have said anything but it was a symptom of all their interference and a step too far for me... Husband met with MIL, BIL and SIL in January this year and he couldn't recall all the issues they had, but he did say, 'they are really cross with you about the Christmas with FIL'. I have bottled up alot of feelings about this and it is starting to come out. We no longer live next door to MIL which has also caused trouble as it is a rejection for her but I am doing alot better now we are not neighbours. I didn't want to move there, MIL and husband pressured me into it, husband said we couldn't afford a family where we were already living - that wasn't true and it was sold to me as an offer I couldn't refuse. I atleast got husband to agree that if I didn't settle we would leave which we have now done. Husband definetely doesn't see how they have interfered and how they have been really rude and quite frankly nasty. We have agreed to seek marriage counselling but deep down, I am very skeptical that he will not be able to see what has been going on. My close friends and family are worried about me, I am still breastfeeding but I have lost alot of weight and they think it is due to the stress. I am really struggling mentally and emotionally with all of this, thank you so much for the advice and guidance. I think a book is a good idea, not sure husband will engage but might be good for me anyway.

They all sound too involved with each other's lives and over critical of you. I hope you can find some peace, look after yourself and get some mental and physical distance from them.

I'm glad you have close friends who support you and are a good sounding board. Oh, Lord, not good that you are suffering so much that you've lost weight. I'm glad that your husband agreed to marital counseling. Do bring up that you don't want your baby affected by poor family dynamics, because you never know which point of discussion might be the tipping point to finally get your husband to step up.

I'd actually tell him you no longer want to hear what they have to say about you. It doesn't really serve any purpose. And if it's affecting you to be around your SIL/MIL because they are cold to you, tell your husband he can take the baby to the gathering, but you can no longer be subject to being treated coldly around his family. You could also tell him he's free to call a family meeting if he wants to set rules and boundaries so that you, his wife, is treated with respect and kindness.

I know when I remarried, that my grown kids weren't all that happy about it. I recall saying to them, "It'd be nice if you liked my husband, but even if you don't, I expect you to be pleasant and kind, just as I expect him to act the same toward you, when we're in each other's company. Those are my house rules." If somebody breaks the rule, they should be asked to leave, or if at their house, you all leave their miserable company.

I hope he's a good husband to you in all other major ways.

OP, this all sound incredibly difficult and whatever happens you are going to be painted as the baddie by them as you have dared to rock the boat. It sounds like they all worry about upsetting MIL and involve themselves to avoid her being upset. This is probably something they have all done since childhood, your day included. Imagine a boat with her in the middle. Everyone else has to work really hard to ensure there are no ripples and the boat won’t tip even if those ripples are not of their making. The boat has to sta steady. This is how life has always been and if anyone ceases to prevent the ripples or causes ripples then the others will turn on them.
until your DH sees the nastiness you describe he will not believe it. Even when he sees it he will minimise it or claim it is a misunderstanding.
it’s shite.
Now you have moved away are things good in your life when they are not involved?
I would certainly match their energy and try and drop the rope. It sounds like this is all making you rather ill.
unfortunately you have. DH problem and he is key to solving this.
it sounds like they all went to him with concerns and he’s tried to be placate everyone and keep the peace rather than going in as a united front with you.

Your husband has a very enmeshed relationship with his family and it’s toxic and you need to protect yourself and child from them.
Your husband won’t acknowledge that he has stood by and allowed his family to treat you like shit because he has been brought up to believe that autonomy threaten the foundations of his family. Unless you get down on your knees and become your MIL’s bitch you will be vilified and punished by them until they drive you away and they can indoctrinate your child.
You feel mentally drained and vulnerable because you have had a baby with someone who is emotionally married to his birth family.
You would be better off leaving him to his family and bringing up your child in a loving and healthy environment yourself otherwise you will always be treated as the enemy and your child will be turned against you.

My close friends and family are worried about me, I am still breastfeeding but I have lost alot of weight and they think it is due to the stress. I am really struggling mentally and emotionally with all of this, thank you so much for the advice and guidance. I think a book is a good idea, not sure husband will engage but might be good for me anyway.

That changes my advice a bit. I think your physical and mental health comes first.

If they are stressing you so badly it's affected your health to the point your friends and family see it and you're really struggling, it's time to put yourself and your baby first. Can you take a week or two at your parent's home with the baby?

Your SIL is rude to you in your own home and your husband does nothing despite you having visible signs of high stress. It might help if you can have some time away from him. He's not on your side and if you can't be comfortable and feel safe in your own home, you need to be somewhere where you can feel safe. Get a lawyer consult as to what divorce would look like. You can go to marriage counseling but your husband is so enmeshed and his family so overbearing and yes, toxic, that it might be of no use. It doesn't sound like your marriage is happy or healthy and his family will make you miserable until you bow to their will and allow them to abuse you. You can also use marriage counseling to learn how to effectively co-parent if you decide you are done.

Start your own holiday traditions with your child.

Why would your MIL be alone at Christmas? If you have the FIL to dinner and she doesn’t want to come, that leaves BIL and SIL surely? Why don’t they all have dinner together?!

Your DH sounds like a wet lettuce!

Thanks again for the messages. I am so much better for having distance from them. It truly is a husband problem as he is saying that I need to allow BIL and SIL to our house, his words: 'you know that my family are non-negotiable'. It is bringing it all up and causing lots of stress and making me question and rethink what has happened, am i in the wrong etc. I am not sure if I am being unreasonable on being resistant about BIL and SIL coming round, should I just take myself out of the way and let him have them round? But on principle, I feel this is out of order based on SIL not speaking to me for over a year and this is my home. I tolerated her not speaking to me when living next to MIL but this is our home now. Why do I need to go? BIL is also a difficult character, he is very arrogant, entitled, snobby and spoilt. I am not prepared to let them judge where we live. BIL advised me before we left living next to MIL, that he didn't understand why we wanted to leave...This was uninvited opinion from him ofcourse because he has no boundaries and thinks he knows best. I am going to contact the Doctor tomorrow because of the stress and see if they can advise/ prescribe anything as I feel awful. Thanks again so much for all the kind and considered replies. They mean alot.

Oh dear OP. I fear you have a real issue here if your DH is saying SIL and BIL coming to your home is non negotiable. He is very clearly putting their needs above yours. It’s not that you are saying he can’t see them but rather that your home is not the appropriate venue for that based on how you are made to feel.
Yoir home is your safe space. (And his)
He needs to understand the very real strain that this is all putting on your relationship .
I’m sorry.

He’s not ready to be married.

I strongly suspect a separation from him would make you feel a lot better.

What is non negotiable is for SIL and BIL to be civil to you in your own home.

If he can't demand that of them, then he's breaking the vows he made to you. If he wants to be a sibling and son before a husband and father, he's unfit to be married.

Getting medical help is a good idea. If you're not working, it's time to look for a job and line up ducks for at the least a separation. I suspect your stress levels will improve when you're not surrounded by a bunch of assholes.