Is it my social skills (or lack of)…… or is it other people?

[SocialSkills00]

DC’s Easter awards ceremony last night at school. Parents drinks / mingling beforehand.

I arrived alone, saw a couple I recognise, went over & said hello, politely asked after their DC and did they have any plans for Easter holidays. Another parent joined us, and the three of them entered a conversation between themselves, didn’t ask me anything or attempt to join me into the conversation. There wasn’t a natural opportunity for me to interject & join in. So after a while of standing smiling like a lemon I said “excuse me” and left the group.

Noticed 3 mums I loosely know chatting so I went and stood with them, obviously didn’t want to barge in rudely so just stood with them, smiled and hoped to be included in the conversation but they ignored me. Then when we were called by staff to say the show was starting and one of then suddenly noticed me and said “oh I didn’t see you there!”

Seems like I have reached the “invisible” phase of life! Literally.

This kind of thing happens to me a lot, and I wonder if I have bad social skills …… but the thing is I actually think I have quite good social skills…. so then I wonder if everyone else has bad social skills?!…… I’m confused!

If the roles were reversed, I would always try to say something to join everyone in a group into the conversation- surely that’s just basic manners?! For example I was out with a group of neighbours the other night and I was conscious to ensure the new neighbour (who is also quite quiet) was involved in the conversation (or at least given the opportunity to be!).

It’s always these kind of group situations involving acquaintances (like school parents) I can’t master and honestly am not sure if it’s me?

I do have friends, including some friendships that I’ve maintained for 40 odd years. I’m successful career-wise and have been described as “highly engaging” by someone I met socially who owns and runs a successful recruitment / headhunting business. (I’m saying this for purely context, it’s not intended to be a brag!)

I’ve also tried to stop caring, as like I say I have family / friends / good career / interests, but it honestly bugs me!

The social custom of trying to include new people or people who are standing on the edge of your conversation is not generally taught.

i didn’t learn it and I do do it now but that is because I was a teacher for a long time and so I now notice when people are talking a lot/not getting involved.

most people are not taught this and don’t learn it unless they are in very socially aware jobs.

Interesting perspective @Octavia64

I always just thought it was the most basic manners. Not to make quieter people feel they are being grilled or put on the spot (I appreciate some people may actually like or want to participate in conversation to lesser degrees) but just to open the conversation up and give newcomers / quieter people the opportunity to join in.

I think you just encountered two different groups of people whose social skills are poor/or who are themselves so socially timid that it would never occur to them that they have the ‘authority’ to say ‘Are you going away over Easter, @SocialSkills00?’ in a conversation into which a new person has just arrived.

I noticed in one very insular village I lived in for five years when DS was small that, because literally everyone else had known one another since birth, they simply had no social competence in terms of basics like introducing themselves, because they’d never had to. It would no more have occurred to them, even when sitting next to me, after I’d said hello at my first few baby groups after moving, ‘Hi, I’m Lisa and these are Fiona and Chloe. Are you new?’ than it would to have taken flight.

I certainly don’t think I was ever taught it. My parents are shy, timid people with few or no friends, and it’s certainly nothing I learned from any educational setting the workplace. It seems to me as obvious an element of social competence as making eye contact and not coughing open-mouthed on someone you’re speaking to..

Those kind of gatherings are intended, as you said, for people to mingle and interact with everyone, not just their pals. It’s not the place to be having private conversations so no need for someone to feel uncomfortable about approaching a group of people. And for a group to not welcome someone into their conversation is poor social etiquette.

If people are unaware of what is polite at those events, that’s their failing not yours. But it seems to me many people are choosing to disregard social conventions in favour of whatever they feel like doing at any given time and also becoming more insular and defensive of their friends, seeing anyone new as some kind of threat or possibly not quite good enough. They have no interest in getting to know them which is as sad for them as the person they are excluding because they might be missing out on getting to know a really cracking new person.

so fuck ‘em

This is of big interest to me because this has happened to me too, many times. I’ve always taken it very personally and got upset by it, usually school gates / cliquey type situations, standing around like a lemon hoping to be included but not wanting to interrupt. But the point about living in a village all their lives and knowing each other well, and us being the (relative) newcomers (26 years there now!), it’s an interesting perspective that maybe they weren’t just ignoring me / being rude, maybe it just wasn’t even on their radar to include me. It’s happened at work too though. I just struggle with those sorts of situations and interjecting myself, but if it’s 1-1 I’m pretty good at small talk. If I’m in a situation like that now I would definitely include a newcomer, maybe just because I know how awful it feels to be left out and don’t want them to feel bad.

As someone who’s gone through periods of being excluded in teens etc. I am always conscious to include people in a group setting.

Group 1 sound like they didn’t care how you feel, as long as they have mates to chat too, they aren’t bothered.

Group 2 seem like they were engrossed in their conversation and didn’t notice.

I’m the sort of person that would just bring a book if I didn’t really know the other parents. It’s a good back up.

The social etiquette of people is dropping by the year. Social media/smartphones are really a main part why, and people's behaviour online is now becoming the normal for IRL.

I think you did well to do the 'excuse me' and swap groups. I find it really hard to escape when I get stuck with a group at these things, and when I do, then there's the dreaded standing on the edge of an existing group waiting to join in. Sometimes it's fine if you know people well enough or are in confident mode or someone is good at hosting and including people, but more often it tends to be awkward/tricky/boring in one way or another and that's why a lot of people don't like this kind of social mingling. Most people aren't very good at it and it's not surprising really when it's often noisy and hard to engage in any kind of decent group conversation that isn't painful small talk where someone feels left out. I tend to end up hiding in the loo for a while, which is much less stressful. In short, it's not you, or them. It's just how it is sometimes.

It happens to me, too. I mean, I got paid to talk to people and am the classic talker-at-bus-stops! Not that I think I'm fascinating, just that I know (almost) everybody likes a bit of social recognition.

I get so sick of lurking on the edges of groups, butting in at the slightest opportunity and ...being ignored. Or a couple of people respond, then immediately go back to their group. It's bad manners.

Then the person who's on their own because their only conversation is a repeated, lengthy complaint about their health battens on to you 😬

I've no advice but will be reading in case anyone's got good ideas!

I think everybody is just a bit socially anxious now. I am relatively good at remembering to do the 'oh x, do you know y?' introductions but if I was in a group of people I hardly knew at such a 'mingle' and somebody else joined I would feel awkward interjecting to 'bring them in' as that feels like a 'host' kind of role and I never feel like the host in a conversation (always on the edge). I think everybody assumes everybody else is confident enough to step in but everybody is anxious and feeling out of place.
I'm also pretty good at work things at stepping in and introducing myself to strangers, but somehow at school parent things MUCH less so, I don't know why, I'll think about that.
One thing that gave me great hope was at our recent first year's parents' evening the prefects were GREAT at making small talk with the parents, I was so impressed.

Well, that was certainly what I realised was the case when I lived in a village which had very little social movement and where the vast majority of people had never not known one another.

I was puzzled at first, as I'd never had any issues making friends in new environments, but after living there for eight years and doing all the usual things (getting involved in local things, PTA, volunteering, child at local nursery school, then village primary, hosting playdates, inviting people round), I realised it wasn't me, and it wasn't even them in the sense of any malice or conscious exclusion. 'New person who might be worth getting to know' was just not on their radar. And I think that (to me) basic stuff like 'I'm X - are you new here?' was as alien as a curtsey. It was a muscle you didn't need to use.

I'd had no issues over the same period making friends at work in the city, and as soon as we moved to a new place, I immediately met people I liked in a variety of ways.

I hate this too. It seems so churlish and unkind not to extend even the small courtesy of a smile and hello.

I have experienced this a lot because I'm quiet and a bit socially awkward and I'm often feeling like Billy no mates at these sort of things. I don't want to invade a conversation or force someone to "be friends", I just want to blend in and not stick out like a sore thumb. I myself will try and smile/welcome the "outside person" in that situation. Not just because i know how it feels but because of years of practice in my job where we host client events and need to ensure everyone feels welcomed into the networking.

There can be a variety of reasons.
Some people are just very set in their ways about who they are willing to invest time and effort in speaking to. A bit like some posters on here who say "I avoid getting into conversations at the school gates, I've got my own friends and dont want any more". I always wonder how they managed to make any friends in the first place!
Some people are just oblivious and don't care or notice. I've known several people who will happily respond to small talk questions but don't reciprocate- really awkward. I get that they might not actually be interested but it's just part of playing the game so no one feels awkward until they can move on.
Some people have never been told/taught that it's polite (and don't have jobs where it's necessary).
Some people are snobby/unfriendly.
Village mentality as a few posters have suggested. It can be a very real thing. I had a job for a couple of years in a small family business located in a rural village. I was there pretty much every weekday for 2 years, bought my lunch every day at the bakery, did my shopping in the little co-op and got my prescriptions and other stuff at the pharmacy. The service I got was ice cold and bordering on downright rudeness. Yet locals would be welcomed warmly with open arms. I started to wonder if it was me (I do suffer from resting bitch face) so made an effort with a cheery Good Morning and sunny smile but I would still get my cheese roll and iced bun silently flung across the counter at me with no eye contact. It was just so weird and I wouldn't have believed it had I not experienced it myself.

I think it's other people and I'm regularly shocked at how certain people I encounter are lacking in social manners and empathy. Me and my spouse were invited to our friends (a couple) holiday gathering. The house is small and seating was in 3 separate areas so we wound up at a table with 2 other couples where the two men spoke at length about their shared hobby. Nobody at the table asked us any questions at all nor engaged us. We ended up leaving after a half an hour.

Even with people I've known a lifetime, such as relatives, have disappointed, making me glad that the ones I'm referring to live long distance from me. I was hosting a big holiday gathering for many long distance visiting relatives among local ones. With tables too heavy to move, seating was in 3 different areas. I'd begun some of the cooking the night before and had cooked all morning, only to find my husband and I eating alone at a table for 4, with 2 people choosing to stand by the bigger table of 6, obviously the fun table. And no, I'm not an argumentative nor negative presence.

Anyway, just know you're not alone at scratching your head at people's social shortcomings.

Thanks all some great perspectives