Is ongoing lying and lack of emotional intimacy enough to end marriage?

[Justaquestion27]

Curious to hear from others what is enough to end a marriage.

I’ve been with my husband for a decade. We have two children, a nice life, financially we do well. Externally- there’s stability. At a surface level, we get along. He works hard, and generally speaking our life aligns. He’s generally a good person.

However- my number 1 dislike is dishonesty and it’s probably more critical to me for someone to be honest about things for me to feel safe emotionally. I am very honest. I’ve been feeling flat disconnected for years but I pushed on- thought it was the kids, etc. But I’ve realised it might not be that.

My husband doesn’t tell me or lies to my face about things that he knows I won’t like. It’s been like this since the start. More recently it’s vaping. I know he’s been vaping but he will flat out lie. I’ve told him over the years that I would prefer to hear something I don’t like than be lied to. He won’t admit something unless he’s caught red handed- and he’ll only admit what he’s been caught with.

Looking at patterns I’d also say he tends to deflect in arguments, and get defensive and focus on what he does versus emotionally connecting. I’m not perfect myself- I’m probably a classic pursuer.

Overall I think this has contributed to a huge lack of emotional safety and also just not being seen. We’ve NEVER had true intimacy- slow sex, eye contact during sex etc. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it with him. I have had this with another partner in the past- and truthfully I crave it.

I am looking to try counselling (couples and myself) as I don’t want to blow something up that could be fixed….but am I so wrong to feel like something is wrong? I read once that respect and admiration as well as listening to one another is key in long term relationships - I’m not sure I admire him fully, even if I like him. I also don’t know if I can live unauthentically- like something is not aligned to how I live my life. It does impact the relationship we might show our children as well, and I worry.

Just putting it out there- I feel like we are always told that no relationship is perfect so I am not sure if it’s itchy feet or if it’s just…not right for the long haul. Of course I’d like to think counselling would help.

You can end a relationship for any reason at all, or even no reason at all, other than that you want to.

Thank you. That is true! But it’s much harder when everything is tied up and there are children.

Would you stay friends with someone who had these traits?

if not, why would you settle for them in your partner?

You would be unlikely to tolerate consistent lying from a friend so why tolerate it from your H?. He's basically lying to get out of trouble and this is deep within his own psyche.

And do not stay with his for the supposed sake of the children either. Whose sake would you be saying for really because it is not theirs, more likely your own because its somehow "easier".

The continual lying was finally enough for me. It means you are always on edge, second guessing and waiting to find out what he's been hiding. I've been there and it's horrible plus liars can't change no matter how much they promise they will. You and your children deserve better, if you can't end things with him for yourself then do it for your children.

Agree with PP - you wouldn’t be friends with a compulsive liar so why would you have a partner with that trait? Lies is my number one dealbreaker tbh - I can’t understand why you are with a man who can look you in the eyes and lie through his teeth. Right now he knows that how ever badly he behaves, there’s zero consequences

My exh was a compulsive liar. Those lies built up and built up. The whopper cost him our marriage..
They become so accomplished we don't realise they escalate.. Until bang...
Get out now ime.

i have a make friend who told me hes worked out that it’s easier to not rock the boat by telling people close to him things they don’t like or will anger or upset them.

instead he just keeps that to himself. “yes dear ive stopped vaping”. when he hasn’t type thing, but he only does it at work not around the home so it’s less likely he will get caught and have to fess up.

happy wife happy life apparently.

he doesn’t realise that he’s being manipulative and weak. it’s difficult to respect someone when you find they’ve been deceitful. if you dont respect then you dont love them.

is it worth staying in a marriage of convenience? only you can decide. counselling soumds the way to go though.

I think it's difficult (actually nigh on impossible) to feel respect and admiration for someone who continually lies to you. I would struggle to feel close and intimate with my partner if he behaved like this. It speaks to the trust in the relationship - how can you fully trust someone if you know they'll lie to avoid difficult conversations or consequences?

It’s this exactly. But I don’t think he realises how much it reduces the trust in the relationship. I think it ties in with the fact he does avoid emotional conversations.

I just wonder if it’s something that’s something he can change- if he’s open to it (with professional help)- or not. I don’t see him racing to get counselling alone, so I’m not sure truthfully if he grasps the seriousness of it, or if he just doesn’t want to.

Do you want to end the marriage? Because that's the only reason you need to end the marriage.

That's the question you need to ask yourself. Do you actually WANT to try and fix it, or are you going to try to fix it because that's the thing you think you should do.

You could try couples counselling - it sounds like he needs to learn how to do the emotional work in the relationship too, so it's not just you doing it. Men don't generally seem to be taught how to do it growing up, but it's never too late. He probably won't jump at the suggestion of counselling, but if it's important for you then push for it. It will benefit him too in the long run.

My ex partner of 4 years was a compulsive liar. I had so much hope to try to fix things, as things were good in a lot of ways in the relationship. I went to therapy. He went to therapy. We went to therapy. He kept lying. He built up secret debt he couldn't repay. He gaslit me that it was my fault. He didn't change, and he told me his dad who is also a compulsive liar didn't change either, although his mum didn't leave.

In some ways I'd have liked to stay, but we would not have been able to have trust or intimacy - I wasn't able to be physically intimate with him because of the lies as I just didn't feel safe. I think he had ADHD, which makes it harder in fact to change. It is possible for people to change but they have to really, really want to, for themselves, and even then it may not work in the current relationship dynamic,

Knowing all of that logically doesn't help when a relationship is a felt thing. I'm sorry, it's a horrible position to be in. My advice is to look for what else you don't know, in his phone, bank accounts, emails. If he's lying, he likely has a bunch of other vices you're unaware of that may be a clear cut dealbreaker for you.

I think this is something that can change. It requires a good deal of therapy.

Maybe your H has never experienced emotional safety or learned to trust in relationships - avoidance can come from fear of rejection. Maybe he likes the feeling of power he gets from withholding information or intimacy. He could work on the causes and asking himself if he wants to change and if so, how, in therapy.

Forget what you've read (admiration, etc) and focus on naming your own feelings and addressing their origins and effects.