I think my DH would prefer it if acted "small"

[GelatinousDynamo]

Looking for some perspective. I am rather successful in my career (same field as DH, he's older than me, so was way further up the career path when we've met). It's a knowledge-based industry. I have progressed really far and gained massive confidence compared to where I've started from.

DH has a habit of talking down to me on my work. It’s condescending and makes me second-guess myself. I've recently watched his parents interact and it clicked for me: I've realized his mother (who was the primary breadwinner and a successful tax advisor) has spent decades pretending to be dim and helpless to make everyone else feel important. She’s clever and resourceful, but she performs the role of a damsel who needs looking after. She will performatively ask mine or my DHs advice on topics where she has more experience. My FIL is very proud of her btw, so it's not like she was "keeping the peace" due to his ego, he's always been very supportive of her. I don't think DH has even noticed this dynamic.

I now can't shake this feeling like DH expects this from me too. He’s proud of my success, but he treats my intellect like it’s inferior to his. I'm afraid that it will only get worse in the future because I'm on my way to outpace him professionally.

The weird part? I’ve started shrinking around him. I find myself questioning my own expertise. I'm so good at what I do, and yet I come home and ask his professional opinion, because I want him to tell me that I was right. I KNOW when I'm right, and yet I still do that.

How do I break this cycle before my own confidence is eroded? I refuse to pay a "submission tax". I get that my MIL has probably been raised that way, but I wasn't.

I just wouldn’t go in to situations about the day when I got home. Your talking to him about a profession which he is also in and more senior and experience than you so of course he will have an opinion on it, he’ll put his work head on and talk about it as he would at work because he also knows what to do. It sounds like you are talking about things for his approval, there’s nothing wrong with wanting approval from someone more experienced but if you’re getting that and then doubting yourself when you know you’re right and done the right thing then don’t go looking for approval. Go home and talk about the weather lol

Just stop talking about work things to him. Tell him you’ve decided you need to switch off from work at the end of the day.

You say you refuse to pay a 'submission tax' but it sounds like, without meaning to, that's exactly what you are doing.

I think a lot of women do the same instinctively: making ourselves a bit smaller or sillier or less threatening just to ease things along. I don't think anyone is 'to blame' for doing this - I suspect it's a (usually unconsciously) learned behaviour and around some men it is unfortunately a necessary survival strategy to avoid backlash.

I wonder whether you could experiment with deliberately reducing how much you talk about your work day with your DH so that he doesn't have the opportunity to share his views or ask you questions about your work, and so that you don't get drawn into the pattern of seeking validation. I say 'experiment' because we don't know how it will go. Maybe you'll feel less close to him. Maybe you'll miss his input. Maybe he'll feel excluded and keep dragging the conversation back to work. Maybe it will bring up other issues. Maybe it will feel good. Whatever happens, it will be a chance to learn more about what's going on for you both here. Change isn't always easy and we tend to fall into certain patterns for a reason but sometimes we can be pleasantly surprised by how much a dynamic can shift based on just one or two simple changes.

I think that when you met you deferred to him as he was older and had more experience. I agree with others saying it’s now time to stop talking about specifics of your day with him. If you want to decompress, then journal.

If you do want to talk about your day just offer a couple of non-specifics like “the commute was a bit hectic” or “I managed to get a lunch break today and felt better for it.”

Don’t go into details about your projects and if he pushes say that you’re finding it hard to leave work at work and you want your time with him to be about the two of you.

As a PP said though, once you start this do be aware of how he reacts. If he starts to undermine your confidence in others ways that would be the end for me.

Is he like this in other situations (not work) if you need a new car e.g. or are booking a holiday, does he always know best?

I have always done this, I confess. It's one of the easiest ways to make people feel good and it's a self protective behaviour on my part as I have so often run into trouble for being "too clever". But it does ultimately undermine my relationships with people. It can make you despise them, which is unfair and unkind.

It's tricky though. The other way also has problems.

I would say don't be tempted to think it's all him and none you. You're also there, playing the role. Start with reflecting on how you can change the dynamic by not seeking his opinion in this ritualistic way. See what happens.

Think you need to talk to him about it if it is effecting your self esteem. I don’t think bring in his parents relationship dynamics will make a difference, he will probably take it as criticism. I would however stop talking to him about work if it is effecting you. You know you’re great at what you do and do not need him to confirm this or undermine you as he is.

I wouldn’t bring his parents relationship dynamic into this as it isn’t your relationship. There could have been learned behaviours and patterns or completely different reasons.

The question for me would be whether he respects you and sees you as an equal. Putting you down could mean he doesn’t and this is what needs exploring.

I didn’t realise until I was single that I’ve done exactly this in all of my post divorce relationships. I’ve always been in more senior roles than my partners as well as being more emotionally intelligent. If I tried to debrief after a difficult day I was met with little interest and more of a ‘you’re paid to deal with it’ response as I earned far more. Hence being single.
In my experiences I made poor choices of men who were easily emasculated by a successful woman without the ability to be supportive and proud. If your partner has the capacity to do this it would be worth trying to start some conversations to explore it. If he doesn’t you have other options like I did.

OP, I wouldn’t assume your FIL would be so supportive if your MIL didn’t do this dance. The dynamic is positive and supportive while she is downplaying herself. Yes it may also be earlier socialisation, but don’t assume that just because your FIL is generous with his support and admiration in the status who he would be if she changed the status quo.

this is an age old dynamic, made particularly tricky because you and H are in the same fields and he is older than you. Another poster is absolutely right, when you first met he was the senior wise one, and it will have felt great for him…. As he ages and you catch up, it is increasingly tricky for him to feel good about himself, in terms of what he brings to you.

You can take a hard line on this around misogyny, make a point of asserting your brilliance and making it clear to him every time he is wrong, out of date, or unnecessary to you, and if he is a hardcore misogynist, this may be necessary (and may also lead to divorce, which could be a good and necessary thing for you to lead a full life). Or you can take a more compassionate, nuanced view and think ‘everybody needs to feel useful, with positive self esteem, who brings something valuable to their partner, and for men in particular, and in the case that he used to be more senior in the same field, that esteem right now is coming from a desire to offer me mentoring when I don’t need it…. Therefore, I’m going to think about the balance of potency, where he can get his sense of power and usefulness from, while training him out of behaviours that erode my own sense of power, potency and competency. This can then become a combination of explicit conversations with him (“you know I know when we first met you knew so much more, I’m so grateful for your mentoring etc…. I am now.. I feel so able to do this… and I’d like to shift the dynamic. What I need from you is….”) and making sure you do allow yourself to need him for different things, and express that need when it is there.

I think ‘potency’ is massively important in a relationship. People have to feel potent, competent and useful. I think this is a genuine, valid need we need to think about in relationships. But yes, managing this can easily tip over into pacifying misogynistic men who simply can’t bare to be around brilliant women. You need to work out which you are dealing with!

Thank you, this is very fair and balanced. I guess I will have to push back a little and see what happens.

My mum does this. Sometimes she has good ideas sometimes not. It's important to have boundaries. They do not get full rant mode! Distraction is key as well.

My (ex) MIL used to behave like this. It was a long time before I realised she wasn't as stupid as she pretended to be. The whole family treated her as though she was. In other ways she had them all wound round her finger, and for a long time I thought she'd just been raised to be indirect and to manoeuvre people to her way of thinking, rather than simply to assert her knowledge. She and FIL seemed to have a very solid marriage. It wasn't until FIL became older and more disinhibited that I realised he was actually a raging narcissist who became foul and abusive when crossed. She'd learned what needed to be done to survive in the marriage and that's the MIL that her children grew up knowing, which seems to me to be the saddest thing of all.

OP, I can't believe that your DH hasn't learned unconsciously from what went on in the family dynamics and that he now expects deference from you. Without really being aware of what you're doing, you seem to have picked up on his cues and delivered what he expects, but now you realise what you're doing it's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle, and hard also to believe that you'll want to. I don't know what the answer is but now you see what's going on, I think you'll know what you want to do. My feeling is that no man who really loves you would enjoy you 'playing small' but perhaps with honest discussion you can both move beyond it. As a postscript, my FIL is dead now and my MIL is finally living her best life. She's 87. Maybe don't wait as long as she did to step out from your DH's shadow.

Fwiw, and contrary to a pp, I absolutely loved reading you honestly saying that you're skilled and competent and know exactly what you're doing. Go you!

No need to share the details of your day. Change the subject. 😁

I think if we don’t address the issue with our partners that do this, how do we change the culture? Men have to learn to correctly perceive their female partner’s capabilities and offer more respect. They need to give up this outdated need to “guide” us, it’s sexist and misogynistic. We really need to put an end to this type of behavior.

This you can change your own behaviour and should do so. Can you tell DH about your day rather differently from the way you have been doing recently. Don't encourage him to tell you how you "should have" approached things.