How do we come back from this? (This marriage has never been easy)

[CranberryCookie]

I’m going to try to keep this short, but don’t want to be accused of drip feeding, so will add a bit of context too.

I've had a chat with my DH of 18 years that's left me reeling.

The key points:

> He thinks I’m with him for the money (he earns below an average wage, and his income is variable)
> He thinks our sex life is crap (hasn’t talked to me about this. So he's just been pretending he enjoys it, apparently. He rarely initiates)
> He wants me to spend more time with him (I work full time and a bit more, we have two teenagers and a house to run - he does a lot too, but certain things don’t get done if I don’t do them. He rarely plans things for us to do. I often suggest cinema, buy tickets to stuff, invite him out with me. He doesn't plan much for us, though has made a bit more effort lately)

Honestly, I think that first point about money is the most insulting thing he has ever said to me. Not to mention being nonsensical as if I wanted a man for his money, I definitely wouldn’t have chosen DH.

Historically he has had anger issues, which have got a bit better, but ultimately he ended up saying all this stuff because I dared to ask him to clarify a financial matter, which made him cross. I think he believes we should be able to muddle along without me knowing exactly what’s going on with his finances, but obviously that means you can’t plan for the future or know exactly what you can afford as a family.

I know, after reading so many helpful threads on here, that some of his behaviour has been borderline financially abusive, but what I don’t know is how to deal with it, beyond ignoring his anger and asking the questions anyway.

At this point you might be thinking, "What is your question OP?"
Two questions I suppose:

1. Where do I start with unpicking these issues?
2. Is this salvageable or am I putting up with too much?

Oh, and I've been around these parts since my kids were babies, but I've name changed - haven't used this username in ages, I don't think.

I don't think this is salvageable really - how could you move from where you are now to an equal, mutually beneficial and enjoyable relationship?

18 years and teenage kids is a lot to give up without at least trying to resolve things. I would read it not that he’s saying that he’s a sugar daddy and you are not contributing but that you are still together mainly because splitting up would leave you both worse off (which is likely true). I would see if he’d go to counselling to see if the relationship which has got a bit stale under the burden of life and work and kids is worth rekindling. You don’t say if you love him? Get on well? Still have the same goals? See yourself with him once the kids have flown the nest?

Do you want to come back from it? Or is it perhaps an indicator that a relationship which has never been easy has just truly run its course, and neither of you are happy? Does he think you’re only still with him because divorce would mean selling the house / the cost of running two households / managing financially as a single parent rather than because you actually love him? Is there indeed some truth in that?

Another man who thinks women are gold diggers for the gold they haven't got.

Is it some sort of masculine thing, that they feel inferior or something?

I think it depends what you want here. If you aren't happy, and don't want to address the things that are making him unhappy it would be totally reasonable to take the opportunity to agree an amicable separation.
On the other hand, if you want to make it work you try and appreciate that he's brought his concerns to you rather than just walked away or had an affair - which I would say are more common approaches for men.
Putting 1 and 3 together reads like he's feeling insecure and can't see why you want to be with him. Even so he wants more time with you which is a fair request but doesn't mean you should want more time with him though might mean he has to do a bit more to enable that to happen, it sounds like you are quite overloaded and you don't want time together to be another thing on your to do list.
Number 2 sounds mean and might be him being defensive. But on the other hand lots of women accept sub adequate sex for the sake of the relationship, presumably some men do too. If you want to improve things that would need some conversations to see what needs to improve- it might be something as simple as lights on rather than off!

Angry men are not marriage material.

For it to be salvageable he would need to completely change every aspect of himself.
Become a feminist, end his rage, change his attitude, cherish and respect you, strive to do better every day.
Is this likely?

Marriage being 'hard' is a myth for keeping women down. It's for enhancing your life, making it easier and fun.
Look up who the happiest section of society is.
Don't focus on the man at all, but on your future, joy, and peace.

I think you’re at the point where the only solution is leaving him. Imagine how much better your life could be if you split up

If it hasn't been easy for the last 18 years, do you want to spend another 18 years finding it hard? It sounds like he wants you to put him on a pedestal, do all the running to make him happy and not question anything. I don't know whether he's financially abusive just on this snapshot, but he certainly sounds emotionally abusive with his reaction to your question (DARVO), and his attempts to make you feel small. Take a look at Dr Ramani's YouTube videos and see if her descriptions resonate. Remember you only have one life.

Unsalvagable.
It speaks to a fundamental view of women incompatible with how I view the world so i'd be exiting.

This also reminds me of that Russian IG influencer who says (im paraphrasing) women who are dating you when you have a 2nd hand Toyota and a meal at applebys arent gold diggers after your "money" ... they are charity workers...

I'll see if I can find it

I would also question whether he actually believes the things he said, or whether he's thrown them at you to deflect from the issue you wanted to discuss. You're blindsided by his comments, which may have been exactly what he wanted. Now the original issue is forgotten.

God just leave. He sounds insufferable and life is too short. Women do not need men useless men anymore, life is pretty good without dick heads in it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQo7tO9kQyw/?hl=en-gb

"Jumping into your Honda civic to go to the cheesecake factory...She is doing charity"
🤣🤣🤣

This @CranberryCookie how can you be a gold digger without any gold. He is actually insulting your gold digging skills here if you were an actual gold digger which totally obviously you are not.

I think he needs to want to change himself to fix this. When I need to fix or resolve any situation with my DH, we are both open to the well deserved criticisms that we both have that have brought us to a particular place, your DH is clearly not.

If he is not open to looking honestly at his own flaws then where can you go? To be honest once things stray into abuse I’m not sure they can stray out without serious intervention.

Thanks for the replies so far. Lots to think about. Got a busy day today but I'm reading and thinking things over and will definitely come back and answer more of your questions.

@Miloarmadillo2 I do love him and I would like it to work out. We have some shared goals but I don't tend to chat about them with him much anymore as being realistic, many of them won't happen unless we both increase our earnings and/or win the lottery. I feel worn down by never quite getting ahead financially, and stressed because I often don't know quite where we are with things or when the next financial dip is coming. Not being able to talk about it without being attacked makes it doubly stressful.

Thanks for the positive spin @Allthegoodonesareg0ne

Thats exactly it - I do feel overloaded and I really don’t want another thing on my list. My list is insane and I’m already dropping balls here and there.

This isn’t the place (not the right board) to get too deeply into the other stuff but it’s more complicated than lights on/lights off. He’s very critical, and I don’t have the energy to comply with what he wants. I’m much more laid back than him and happy to just feel connected. He’s more of a swinging from the chandeliers type. I’m close to giving up on that part of our relationship tbh, as it feels like we’re on different planets.

Reading between the lines he’s been emotionally abusive for many years (eg ‘anger issues’)

Thanks @Outoutoutout - I have seen some of Dr Ramani’s stuff and I think it resonated. It’s been a while so I’m not sure. I’ll rewatch. He definitely does DARVO consistently. I rarely challenge him on anything for that reason. But the thing is it’s very infrequent. He can be lovely for months, and then suddenly awful.

Possibly @Dozer . But it’s infrequent enough that it feel ridiculous to split. It’s probably two or three times a year that he behaves appallingly.

Tell us more about the borderline financial abuse and what it is you would like hm to be clearer / more transparent about

If the happy times outnumber the bad times, you still love him, and you don't want to split up the family...it's worth trying to solve the problems, imo.

But...it takes two to make a marriage work, and it sounds like he is the one who causes most of the upset.

If he acknowledges this, would marriage guidance be an option for you both??

In similar circumstances I felt splitting up would just add stress to my plate so didn’t.

i was also accused of being after his money.

ironically when we did finally get divorced I have much more control over much more money because he was so fucking difficult about everything.

in reality 1 and 3 of his point conflict and he knows it. If you are just with him for the money then you wouldn’t care enough about him to spend more time with him.

he’s upset and angry and just throwing it out (or at least mine was).

eventually mine got drunk and did something totally unacceptable which precipitated a separation anyway.

i’m told he’s nicer to his new wife.

He doesn’t think much of you. Why would you stay?

The financial abuse is historic - leaving me almost penniless on mat leave while there was still budget for his hobbies. And other stuff I’ve mostly blocked out. That was a long time ago, when I was young and probably had PND. I’m more aware of what decent behaviour looks like now, although he still makes spending decisions that I wouldn’t make, because my priority is our kids. But generally he’s much better.

The issue is around knowing what’s going in and out, and being told whether he’s going into debt. His income fluctuates, and I don’t always know whether we’re financially ok or not. If things got bad, he probably wouldn’t tell me without me asking.

Thanks @NovemberMorn . I wouldn’t have counselling with him. It wouldn’t go well, and I don’t think he’d be up for it anyway. He can come across well in a session but then get angry afterwards. He thinks I’m the problem and doesn’t take kindly to being told it might be him that’s making things difficult. I wouldn’t go there tbh.

If he won't accept that the problems in your marriage stem from his behaviour, I don't see an answer to working out the difficulties.
So you either carry on regardless or decide the situation is intolerable.
Only you can make that decision....good luck. x