My sister is failing her kids

[janglemycoppers]

NC for this, obvs.
My sister and her husband shout and scream at each other in front of their kids all the time. There is no violence as far as I'm aware, or if there was it would be more likely to be her on him.
The kids are obviously struggling with this, what do I do? They're sad, becoming more mean, fight each other, tease and goad each other. One is obsessed with describing things he's going to do to various people - setting them on fire, trapping them, locking them in places.
I think if I try to talk to her she'll just not accept it, husband is equally unaccountable.
How do I deal with this, or do I say not my circus not my monkeys, but know that I'm letting the kids down too.
Is this a thing I could speak to social services about? Or is that not really their remit?

This is why I'm worries.. he's a good kid, but he's obviously really angry and struggling with everything that's going on for him. I am worried that as he reaches puberty, things are going to go the wrong way for him, which is such a shame as he was such a lovely sweet little boy. I am worried he's going to do harm to himself/someone else/get in with the wrong crowd. He's never been actually violent in the way he describes, but it's certainly not a good sign that he's so obsessed with it.

Are your parents around? Does she have a good relationship with them? Are thry aware of the situation?

I’m wondering whether they’d be able to broach the subject with her. I know that if my Mum had expressed concern about an angry household, I would def. have listened. Even to my Dad, who’s not the most reliable.

That's a good idea. Gosh I don't know how she'd respond though

I think they just think it's normal, or nothing to be done because that's just how it is. They're a bit like this too, so criticising my sister might make them feel criticised themselves.

Try talking to your sister first becos once you've contacted social services your sister will likely not talk to you anymore. Tell her their shouting etc is affecting them. It's better for you to say it and for her to get defensive rather than you not say it.

Maybe they need help, do you ever have the children or babysit

Did you grow up at in a shouty household @janglemycoppers?

Did you contact the NSPCC for their advice?. That would be worth doing because someone has to look out for her kids. Their parents can’t and won’t.

You know they’re growing up in a shouty home and that will affect all of them into adulthood . You’re seeing this already in them when you do see them.and you do not want your own kids around them.

Safeguatding is completely confidential. Don’t let that prevent you from speaking to social services or the nspcc. They are also there to help families and removing children from their parents is very much a last resort.

I cannot for the life of me understand people on here who would rather go straight to social services than have a conversation with a member of their own family first.
Just talk to your sister OP and be honest with her.
There is a limit to what SS can do in this kind of situation plus it’s your word against theirs if it comes to that. They are not just going to take your word for it and what you’re describing is very difficult to prove.

Tell their school.

Sadly people like ops sister and her h are not always amenable to being told by family members that such an atmosphere at home is bad for the children to be witnessing. These parents see it as normal because they grew up seeing it so the cycle continues with the next generation. These kids and their parents need support, not condemnation and people who know there is a problem to look the other way. Also if nothing is addressed now what are these children going to be like when puberty and their teenage years hit?.

If these children are starting at a new school due to a recent house move then behaviour issues may not show until later on. It’s still worth contacting their school if you know which school it is and you’re unlikely to hear about any outcome in any event.

The thing is honesty is not going to serve you well in this situation, because she will get defensive, probably freak out at you and then limit your contact with the children.
I don’t think the school would be allowed to let it get back to your sister if you spoke to safeguarding, you could ask them before disclosing

There is a long way to go before SS remove children after a referral.
There is Early Help support for families experiencing problems of various kinds, with the aim of supporting families to stay together.
But no family can access that support without a referral.