Relationship with mother

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I'm trying to get my head around my mum and would appreciate some thoughts from an outside perspective. Sorry it's long!

I don't really remember much from my childhood pre my parents splitting up - I was age 9 - although I do remember my dad hitting me occasionally, but I think that was more common 30 ish years ago.

From the point my parents split up onwards, my sister (4 years older) was often left to look after me while mum went out or was at work. She did a lot of internet dating and we were introduced to a few men. When I was around age 13, she got engaged to a man she had known for 3 months. They got married, but divorced when I was around 19 as he was secretly getting into debt buying porn online, uploading himself to porn websites etc.

We were latch key kids and sort of left to it really in the teen years, but she never did anything 'bad' - we just never really spent much time together. I wasn't a fan of my step dad so used to just head out with friends or watch TV in my room etc.

I suppose my sister and I are questioning the relationship more since we've had our own children. She is a completely absent grandmother. My sister had children before me and complained mum never seemed interested, but my mum used to complain to me that my sister was a control freak, too capable etc, wouldn't accept help and favoured the MIL over her.

When I was pregnant, she moved to live closer to me (3 hours from where she was). She got a lot of positive praise from everyone about this, but then... She just never came over. She lived on the same street as us for around 4 years and we'd see her for about 10 minutes every 6 months or so. She would drop milk on the doorstep if she had too much but wouldn't knock or come in.

We started inviting her over for Sunday lunches etc but it just sort of fizzled out. I guess once we had 2 under 2 we stopped hosting and were never invited there. I did used to ask her to help out with the children, at one stage I asked if she could maybe have the third for a few hours one morning a week, which she agreed to but then would find an excuse each week why she couldn't do it. She also just seemed so awkward with the children like she'd never met one before.

Eventually she decided she was going to relocate to live by the sea. She asked if I minded - I said she had to do what's best for her (while thinking it won't really make a difference to us!) and she had a strop about that, that we weren't fighting for her to stay. She left just over a year ago.

We now barely speak. She came to visit for four days in the summer and I found it so stressful - I just find it so hard to pinpoint why. The first day I had a terrible hay fever reaction, I was really struggling and she said 'I'll leave you to it then' (with the three kids) and she headed back to where she was staying. My friend ended up driving over with some medication. The second day we went to the zoo for the day and she just bought everything the kids asked for, but didn't really 'do' anything with them. The third day we didn't see her at all, she met up with friends, and the fourth day she left early.

We haven't seen her since. She arranged to visit just before Christmas, but around 2 weeks before she cancelled. We have barely been in touch since.

She used to text to ask how we were, but when I'd reply she would ignore it unless I asked her a question about herself. As an example, once she text to ask how we were, I said three of us were unwell with a sickness bug. She replied literally just 'how is MIL's cat?' - same if we reply anything positive, like a child did something great at school, no reply. But if we message to ask about her we get lots of details and photos. She now complains to people that we never message her.

For the children's birthdays and Christmas (they are under 8) she just sends a bank transfer to me. It's like she really can't be bothered, but then she tells everyone else me and my sister don't make the effort etc.

My sister asked her to house/pet sit once, but asked if she wouldn't have visitors over as she didn't feel comfortable with strangers being in her house while she was away. Within an hour of my sister leaving, she was notified that mum's friend had arrived at her house (she has a lot of security cameras). The next day another friend arrived, and on camera my mum and friend were stood talking about my sister saying she spoils her children, they have too many toys, it's out of order that she won't let the friend stay overnight etc. My mum never did tell my sister herself that she invited people over.

It's just all so negative and draining, but I feel like me and my sister are constantly made to feel as though we aren't good daughters, we don't do enough etc. I just don't have the energy for it anymore. My children never ask about her as she has been so absent.

I guess what I'm wondering is, is this normal for this generation? Where should we go from here...

Also to add, my sister and I have been discussing this with our uncle recently - he is very different, very loving, can easily chat on the phone to him for over an hour every week. He says when we were young children our parents weren't interested in us at all - would dress us up nice and parade us out for people to see but wouldn't actually want us to speak/interrupt etc. He said he thinks they just had children because that's what people did in the 80s

My parents aren't like this. Your mum sounds neglectful and selfish. I'd go low contact. She doesn't offer anything positive to your life.

Your mother is both a selfish and otherwise self absorbed parent and she has not changed since your own childhood. Drop the rope here and have nothing more to do with her.

Women like this cannot do relationships at all and always need a willing enabler to help them. Step forward all these men.

If your uncle is nice and importantly emotionally healthy, then I would continue to foster relations with him.

And no it’s not normal for people of your generation but it is the norm to those with such parents. She has failed you abjectly and in addition did not protect you from your dad who hit you. He failed you also.

Read Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride.

I have just ordered this book, thank you!

Thank you all for the wise words. My sister and I often say we weirdly wish there had been a big conflict or argument or something so we felt better about just cutting contact. It's all just a bit of a mind bender to be honest.

What age is she op. It is sad but she wont change. Mine is difficult too she 80s. I visit at wends its plenty. She very negative

My relationship with my own mother is similar in many ways. I don't want to dig into the backstory because it's long, but similar to you, she would say she's interested if asks but it doesn't show in her behaviour. Any contact with her leaves me stressed and on high alert for days. If I get a text message I feel like I've been hit by a truck. I know it's a completely inappropriate response, an over reaction, but that's how I feel. There's never been a big argument although I feel we get closer every time there's contact because of the stupid and often horrible things she says to me. (As an example, she told me not long ago that in her opinion, people who use private healthcare are disgusting, after she found out I'd gone private because the NHS wait was so long. I was really poorly, fwiw, could barely leave the house).

Some people don't realise that they don't want to be parents until they have children, and I am convinced that this happens far more often than we like to admit. To me, this explains all the parents who withdraw as soon as their children hit adulthood and have no interest in grandchildren. The funny thing is, my mother makes a massive fuss over babies. When I had my first she actually told me that children are great until about 18 months and then they get boring. What I realised was that she liked the attention she got for having a baby, and she lost interest once walking and talking started and she wasn't the centre of attention any more.

It is really painful being the child of a parent like this because their parenting is sub par and they're just really selfish people. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it. I would recommend therapy if you can afford it (although be warned - I found that it made my relationship with my mother worse, not better).

It's very simple, OP. Our relatives are just people, as are we. That means that some of them/us are likeable and some are not. Being a parent doesn't suddenly make someone perfect or lovable.
So stop trying to force a relationship that doesn't do much for either of you. Forget about her and just get on with your life, concentrating on the friends and family who you actually love, and who make your life better.

You have described exactly how I feel when I interact with her! It has been over a month since I had a text off her and I'm on edge waiting for one as I know it will be such a pointless exchange and I will just feel dreadful after it. My friend did say she thought my unusual hay fever reaction when she was last here was probably more like an allergic reaction to my mother!!

This is the thing, I know this in theory, but how do you execute it without being 'the bad guy' - she paints a completely different picture of herself to everyone else and makes herself look like the poor neglected old mum who her daughters ignore. Although I do wonder if secretly they are thinking why don't your daughters talk to you?

Why does it matter if you appear (to others) to be the 'bad guy'?

I've been NC with one parent and LC with another for a really long time. In the early days I felt like you do - that other people had to know the 'truth' as it were, and had to see my point of view. How could they possibly want to have a relationship with someone I knew to be utterly awful?

But reality is that you cannot control the narrative here. You cannot control what other people think and believing that you can or should just prolongs the pain and feeds the anxiety. Other people are going to disapprove of you and think you are a bad daughter and there is nothing you can tell them that would make them change their mind.

Let them think badly of you. It's OK. You will be OK. The only person who has to be comfortable with your decision is you. Make the right decision for you and then let the rest of it go.

Maybe this is what I need therapy for!

No contact.
sorted

Who are concerned about appearing as the bad guy to?
Are there other family members than your sister and your uncle who you want to keep in with?

My goodness no, people who act like that shouldn’t be rewarded with relationships. It’s absolutely fine for you to cut ties. She doesn’t seem like a nice person and you only have one life. People can think what they want, it would be none of their business. You might feel guilt, but that’s ok, it will lessen. I had to do the same because my mother was absolutely toxic and there was no way I was letting my kids be exposed to that. It’s amazing how protective of them I became compared to what I was expecting myself to put up with. It will get easier in time.

I've been thinking about this, and I think it's more my husband's side of the family and my friends with normal relationships with parents. I'm NC with my dad and my MIL is often upset about it - but she only knows loving relationships, and pictures herself in the same situation of her children not talking to her and can't bear it. Often says things like 'oh did you see Meghan markle sent a letter to her dad apologising....'
My own extended family know my mum properly, so I don't think they would bat an eyelid. It's more the people who she has been able to paint the perfect picture of herself to, who then judge me, and these people are more prominent in my life than anyone else.

Yes, I see. My FIL was like this about his BIL — couldn’t understand why BIL’s children no longer make the effort because he projected his own dotage on his own children onto BIL, and so supposed that BIL must have been like that, however many times we explained otherwise. Very similar to your situation really. After 20 years of repeated explaining, he still says “such a shame” but no longer goes any further. Having said all this, he is inclined to be like that about other things too, so hopefully yours would be a quicker nut to crack.

This is a you problem external to your relationship with your mother and yes, this is what therapy is for - to help you unpick and reframe your worries about these relationships. You must know that feeling that you have to have contact with your mother otherwise your in-laws will disapprove is a bit silly. Where has that feeling come from, so you think? What's the origin?

I understand completely how having an abusive and inadequate parent leaves you with beliefs that aren't true, and how abusers use the threat of disapproval from others as a weapon.

How well do your in-laws know your mother, and why is your relationship with your mother any of their business anyway?

And gossiping about tabloid stories about the relationships of famous people and thinking this bullshit has any meaning in the real world is ridiculous.

And if your in-laws do disapprove, and do make the odd throwaway comment on it, you can cope with that. Trust yourself to deal with it. To be able to say I don't want to talk about it, or all families are different, or it's my decision and it's not up for discussion.

My MIL knows my mum fairly well (well, she knows the public facing version of mum!) as when she lived nearby they would go for walks regularly. MIL saw her much more frequently than we did and says she misses having a walking buddy. If I don't reply to my mum promptly enough, she will text MIL asking if i'm okay as I haven't replied, and MIL will then come to me. MIL also asks often if I'd like to invite my mum to stay at her house (we don't have space) as she lives in hope we might one day get along.

So I do feel if I'm going to go NC, I have to tell MIL first to please support me in it.

So in short, your mother has recruited your MIL and uses her for leverage. She's a flying monkey. There is sadly not a lot you can do about this, because you cannot control either of them. What you can do is refuse to be involved.

You do two things: when your MIL tries to act as a go between, you tell her to stop. And you repeat this until she does. And your DH will need to step up and tell her the same.

If your MIL mentions your mother: I don't want to talk about it, and I will end the call/leave if you continue.

No, I don't want to invite my mother to stay at your house, don't ask again.

If my mother contacts you fishing for information about me, I expect you to respect my privacy, and you are not to then hassle me to contact her.

I suspect that once you've said this clearly, you'll be surprised how quickly your MIL will stop. But you will have to have a conversation that you're not going to enjoy in order to get there. I would also predict that your mother will drop your MIL if she stops acting as a go between. You will have to be blunt, you will have to be prepared to follow through and hang up/leave, and you will have to accept that your MIL may be upset, but trust her to be able to deal with that herself. It's not your job to upset yourself in order to spare her from difficult feelings.

I know I probably sound like a cold hearted cow, and I know all of this is upsetting and none of it is easy (although it's not difficult either, you just have to be prepared to deal with some unpleasant but temporary feelings) but I've just lost so much time and experienced so much misery because I was too afraid to stand up to my mother and say no and looking back, it was a mistake. I should have hurt her feelings. She hurts mine and doesn't bat an eye.

The break with your mother will not be as clean as you would like, at least until one of them dies. But that doesn't mean that a break isn't possible.

Do some research on narcissistic mothers and read the book It’s Them Not You by Josh Connolly.