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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I a terrible person? What should I do.

123 replies

IveStuffedUp · 07/01/2026 00:06

This is very long. I'm not a creative writing wannabe and it is not AI. But I am in a mess.

TL;DR
I escaped an abusive marriage and later spent years in a complicated, unhealthy relationship with Gordon, who was still legally married. A crisis involving Lee led to a pregnancy and termination, which Gordon never stopped using against me. Over time he became verbally abusive, controlling, financially dependent, and unwilling to change or leave his marital home. As I rebuilt my life and became more independent, my feelings faded.

I had an abusive marriage with Charles (he was verbally and physically abusive and raped me) and it ended in my 30s after 11 years when I found out he had been cheating and asked him to leave. He moved in with the OW and my in-laws gaslit me about it pretending he lived with them. I was blindsided though because he'd conditioned me to think that I couldn't cope alone, but two years later I bought a house. I had a tough two years in between as my XH continued to be abusive financially, I lost my job and was scraping by on temping money, I had some disastrous dates and felt a failure and Charles was trying to get me out of the house so he could move back in. I got a decent job and bought a house in the end though.

I then started a relationship with my XH's former friend Gordon - they had fallen out when XH and I split. He was married with 2 small children. Now with hindsight I would NEVER go out with a married man EVER. He told me that he hadn't really ever been in love with his wife Jenny, she didn't like his family and was rude to his friends. I knew her, she wasn't my cup of tea but she wasn't a bad person, a bit stand offish and superior but OK.

I had a relationship for four years with Gordon and it was very positive, we loved each other and got on well and he was a great person. He said he would leave his wife Jenny and we made plans to buy a house, and got engaged (I know you can't really if you are married, but you know what I mean). We bought a house, and he left home and we moved in. He told his children and his wife bought him out of the house. I now feel ashamed of this.

What happened next was terrible. I had been doing a research project for a few months and I was on a discussion forum for it, and I became friendly with one of the participants, Lee, whose ancestor was part of the historical story I was researching about. We corresponded a lot on this, and eventually he started low key flirting with me. He was a good 15 years younger than me and lived in Canada though his family was originally local to me. He became very infatuated and because I wanted info from him for my research I played along more than I should have. I was invited to Canada for a holiday. I went, reasoning to myself that it was an opportunity I wouldn't get again. I stayed with his parents. I liked chatting with him, but I wasn't attracted to him and I didn't want to be with him as a partner. This was never on the cards. I did this when Gordon was away himself, and fibbed about where I went. I know of course this was deceitful. I went there for about 10 days, met his family and friends, saw the sights. He was also coming to the UK later to meet family, but when he did, he seemed to think I was his girlfriend. I had told him about Gordon and the house. I was trying to juggle my job and new house and life and I didn't want any more than to be friends with Lee. He started turning up at my work, phoning me and so on, sending gifts. I didn't want to fall out with him but I didn't want a romantic relationship with him. My partner was furious about this as he thought he had left his family for nothing and I had let him down. I was naive, but I was still committed to the relationship with him. We'd bought a house!

Lee just ramped up the attention, turning up at my work and annoying me and upsetting my colleagues. I got into bother at work and couldn't focus. I felt terrified. I should have told him to FRIG OFF but I felt that too harsh, and it all came to a head when I went on a conference with work, and agreed to meet Lee. My plan was to tell him Face to Face that I wanted him to leave me alone. I met him at his hotel, he was crying and upset and telling me he loved me and would kill himself, his mother was dying, all sorts of stuff, and to shut him up and get him off my case I allowed him to shag me. I won't say I slept with him because that is not what happened. I then planned to ghost him. But what actually happened is I became pregnant and had to confess to Gordon.

This caused massive fallout. I chose a termination. That was my choice and I will defend it forever, and it was the right thing for me. It ended my relationship with Gordon, because he couldn't forgive me (even though he had cheated with me for four years and I later found he'd cheated on his wife with others before me). He moved back home, told his wife all about it, Jenny said I was irrational and was to be nowhere near her children, and there was a hell of a fallout. It was horrendous and I was signed off sick from work. Though I had done the right thing with the termination, I knew that, it was no picnic and it affected my mental health. But that was all OK as I deserved it, I had brought it on myself.

Gordon blamed me for conning him, said I had pushed things, nagged him to leave Jenny, that I was evil, had conned his children, stolen their lives, all sorts of things. I still loved him and carried a massive burden of guilt for ruining the relationship and I wanted to make it right. The termination was not a bed of roses, and though I have no regrets, I got a lot of abuse from Gordon during that time. He hated me. I had to constantly prove myself. I could never be sorry enough for him.

I would add that he didn't move back as husband and wife. I know that might sound naive, but it really is true. They have had no physical relationship since then, Jenny has had other relationships. They have separate rooms. He was bought out of the property and AFAIK is not on the deeds of the house.

What then happened was that he wanted us to get back together, he had never stopped loving me etc. He wanted us to start again. Cue a lot of messing about with offers for property and him changing his mind because he said he couldn't trust me. At that time all I wanted to do was settle down, but I was full of guilt and felt it was all on me to repair the relationship. In the end, he blew me out at the solicitors when we were to sign for a property saying he couldn't trust me. At this point the house we had bought together was sold and I was in crappy rented accommodation. I went out that afternoon and viewed properties and bought my own house which I have now paid off. It's small but it's mine.

We continued to see each other but after that I never felt quite the same. We went on holidays, days out, meals etc but over the years since then the glue has come away. It has been a very slow long process. I didn't want to sleep with him anymore. Not sure why - menopause, emotional fallout, don't know. He continued to live at the former marital home and contribute to bills. He then again over the years talked about us buying a property, getting married, starting again, but I was always reticent. He did a lot for me, helping me with the house and garden. But since he left me at the solicitors office something closed off for me and I don't know what. I did love him, but I couldn't make myself vulnerable any more. I also couldn't tie myself to him financially and legally and be abused in my own home, as he went on and on about Lee and "what you did" and the effect it had on him.

Why did he seek a reconciliation with me then?

Over the years too things changed about my feelings about seeing someone who is married. Even though they're not husband and wife in the traditional way they've both gaslit their (now adult) children - who must know things aren't right, parents have their own room and never do things together unless it was going to their sons' graduations, have separate holidays and friends and so on. When I told Gordon I couldn't (could no longer) commit to someone who is legally married to and living with another woman, even if the relationship wasn't sexual or romantic, he didn't like that. He is still legally married and living with Jenny. Jenny won't fork out for a divorce and he has nowhere else to go. But he says that he can never let Jenny know if he is in a relationship with someone else (be that me or anyone) or she would chuck him out. Why if she's not interested in him? She doesn't present herself as a married woman or wear a ring.

Over the years with Gordon after me buying my own house, I did get "involved" with two other men. I am embarrassed and ashamed of this. Not in a cheating or relationship or sexual way. But I had what I think was a very low key but inappropriate friendship with a (18+) student - nothing ever happened but we were too friendly, and I also met up with a man called George for drinks a time or two (I met him accidentally in a shopping centre) whom I had known as a teenager who like Lee, wouldn't let go, used the compassion trap on me and I felt guilty about not seeing him. After one meeting with him after catching up I thought "yep, that's done" but I felt guilty about ignoring his texts. I didn't want him, I didn't fancy him, I didn't even like him when I met him again as he got worse. When I knew George as a young teenager he was six years older and seemed glamorous now he just seemed a foolish failure. He hung on like a limpet and I was too soft to tell him to leave me alone. I knew there was something odd about him, and I was right as he has now been in the worst kind of trouble with the police. At the time he was in touch with me (he behaved terribly) Gordon intervened with that one and I never saw George again thankfully.

Years after I went to Canada, Lee got in touch again out of the blue, finding my contact details at work online. He emailed me and told me he was now married with kids, and I exchanged a couple of emails with him about the World Cup. This must be at least four World Cups ago. Nothing more than that. Gordon read it and went mad at me accusing me of cheating.

But it took its toll on my mental health, feeling a failure, and Gordon dined out on both of these for years and years. Evidence of me being untrustworthy and a cheat. But I didn't do anything with these guys.

Now to the present.

Gordon is now retired (v.early) and on a 75% pension - he never has any money. There is no way he can leave the former marital home, because he can't get a mortgage and can't afford to rent anywhere, he also says renting is dead money. I agree. He also says he likes doing the garden and he has a selection of mates nearby who he meets for a drink and to play pool with. When we've been on holiday or out I have paid for 100% of everything. I don't want to have sex with him, and I don't know why. I've tried talking about it and he gets angry. He tells me that Jenny loathes me (after a quarter of a century) and would pour petrol through my letterbox and set my house on fire. Why would she? And why doesn't she loathe the other women he went with before me?

I told him I am happy to be friends. He suggested this a year ago himself. But he gets very abusive towards me (verbally never physical) about lack of sex. I don't see him a lot, once a week maybe, going out for a drink. It all blew up the other week when he said he wanted us to try again and I don't show him any "affection". I said our relationship was that of friends, he'd agreed to that and I was working within those parameters. He didn't agree and said I never hold his hand, tweak his ear, smack his bum, squeeze his shoulder when I get up to go to the bar (I would never do that! He doesn't know me at all if he suggested that!) or make supermarket trips exciting. "We're friends are we? Where are the benefits?" he asks. These rants happen every so often, usually when away. It's bizarre.

I also have confided in him a lot, because I saw him as a mash up of a friend, family member and big brother. But he uses that information against me in insults. He says I abuse him, but whilst I may be guilty of not being tactile or public displays of affection, nothing is deliberate or personal. His attacks on me are deeply personal and intended to wound.

He spent an hour on the phone to me ranting, last week telling me all my faults, acknowledging that he is abusive, but that I bring it on myself by not showing him affection or caring. That's why he gets abusive and calls me names, moans, complains and nitpicks about my driving, my intelligence and abilities. He says something has to give sometimes. Then he says I am "gorgeous" and he loves me. He thinks I am "loaded" because of my job, which is not true. I can pay my way, afford a few minibreaks and outings, stay in the black, but that's about it. There were more insults all about me as a person and character assassination. If I was so terrible, why do my friends still continue to be my friends? Why don't my colleagues hate me?

I also asked him what would happen if one of us died. How would I know if he had died? How would I attend the funeral? What would his family think? I would not exist. Meanwhile his wife whom he has not had a "marriage" with for decades gets to benefit from that. He expects a committed sexual relationship but with all the benefits - legal and financial - to go to his family. Not that he has much, if anything, only a pension. He refuses to discuss that, saying "I have no plans to sign off". Neither did Tom Parker or Lisa Marie Presley. But it happens. It's not that I actually want money or an inheritance from him, it is the principle of it. He expects a sexual relationship from someone who is persona non grata. "Oh it's all about money is it?" he says. No it isn't. He refuses to understand. The fact that I was prepared to have a relationship with a married man decades ago doesn't mean I think that it is OK to do that now. I have changed.

I have a very independent life now. After lots of hit and miss jobs I have a really good one plus lots of outside interests, I am very busy. I enjoy the times I spend with him chatting but not when he turns on me. The last outburst called me selfish, cold as ice, like a brick, like a stone, wrapped up in myself, me me me, using him for a mug. Yes he has helped me physically with DIY over the years. When we have been away, he has contributed half until recently and it's all on me 100%. How does that make him a mug? I do all the driving, use my petrol, my car.

There have been lots of nice times, but always I feel he is critical of me, I don't measure up. I don't cook like his mum. I am no longer the sexy person I was in the beginning. I don't wear high heels. (nobody would for a lunchtime drink in the pub when you are doing all the driving)

I have covered up for him going back to live in the former marital home after we sold our property by telling my friends that he has a flat by himself. I was embarrassed as I didn't want comments about affairs with a married man and people thinking badly of him, but I have cut off my support system and anyone to talk to by doing that.

What am I asking? I have brought all this on myself by "cheating" as he sees it. Trying to make it up for years and years and never being able to. Why have my feelings changed? Is all this a result of me going to Canada, and would it have been bliss if this had never happened? Or is this his nature that has become more pronounced with getting older and he would have been like that anyway? He's admitted he is an "arse" but does that mean he can do it with impunity because he can't help it?

He said I conned him. I never did. I did a lot of things wrong, but I didn't con him or cheat on him. Am I a terrible person who deserves to be guilty forever? I think I have wasted a lot of years, that is for sure.

OP posts:
merryhouse · 11/01/2026 17:21

I'm probably about the same age as you.

When I was young I made some unwise relationship choices simply because of my emotional reaction to somebody obviously fancying me.

I really needed to be less passive.

(I was much luckier than you in that all the men involved appear to have been nicer than yours, so I'm able to look back at it more dispassionately)

It's interesting that you said you felt "selfish and mean and spiteful" as a young girl who simply wanted to finish with her (controlling) boyfriend. I had a tendency to feel the same. (I'd probably have had a pity shag too if I hadn't also had a religious upbringing.)

I don't think you're a terrible person. I'm still able to consider myself quite a nice person actually. I do think you probably absorbed a whole lot of cultural shit that nobody's ever really acknowledged.

Block Gordon. Take up whatever hobby you enjoyed when you were 12. Decide whether you want a promotion.

HelloDenise · 11/01/2026 17:39

Gordon's wife sounds like a complete mug to forgive him flings and a long affair.

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 21:56

I don't love drama, I don't want a man. I don't want any man let alone any of these. I haven't as someone put it, shagged anyone for years. And I have no inclination to either.

I do have to revise what I said about Jenny not wearing a wedding ring though. I've been shown some photos of her in her professional role yesterday by a friend and she definitely does. Also in a text from Gordon which I didn't reply to said he was going to a comic con in Glasgow last weekend. I have friends in Glasgow, and I know they like this sort of thing, and guess what it didn't exist, and Mrs Gordon was working that weekend in Peebles. The only comic con is him. I don't care, I'm not jealous. I'm cross at myself for limiting myself all those years to try to absolve myself I guess.

@Arlanymor that was me when I started seeing Gordon. I think Baz Luhrmann might have been No 1 in the charts then. It isn't me now. I hate myself for thinking like that.

OP posts:
Arlanymor · 11/01/2026 22:02

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 21:56

I don't love drama, I don't want a man. I don't want any man let alone any of these. I haven't as someone put it, shagged anyone for years. And I have no inclination to either.

I do have to revise what I said about Jenny not wearing a wedding ring though. I've been shown some photos of her in her professional role yesterday by a friend and she definitely does. Also in a text from Gordon which I didn't reply to said he was going to a comic con in Glasgow last weekend. I have friends in Glasgow, and I know they like this sort of thing, and guess what it didn't exist, and Mrs Gordon was working that weekend in Peebles. The only comic con is him. I don't care, I'm not jealous. I'm cross at myself for limiting myself all those years to try to absolve myself I guess.

@Arlanymor that was me when I started seeing Gordon. I think Baz Luhrmann might have been No 1 in the charts then. It isn't me now. I hate myself for thinking like that.

Baz Luhrman is a film director - he's not in the music charts if that's what you meant? Look I am honestly not raking you over coals I swear, but when people come on here genuinely asking for help - which I think you did - I think it's best to be really straightforward with them. I totally recognise that you undoubtedly came here asking for help. But you need to cut ties with Gordon - if you need us to reinforce that fact then that's fine - but really, you need to cut ties.

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:05

@Arlanymor Do you wear sunscreen?

Anyway thanks, I know I need to cut ties and I have dialled it down hoping he will go away, it's more dealing with the feelings of shame I was seeking help for. I don't need these twats in my life and I won't have them in it, but I need to learn to forgive myself. A lot of posters think I shouldn't.

OP posts:
SapphOhNo · 11/01/2026 22:08

Don’t give up your day job to pursue creative writing.

This isn’t bad luck, it’s self manufactured drama. You keep choosing married, unstable or inappropriate men, then act shocked when it implodes.

You don’t have terrible luck with men, you have terrible boundaries and a martyr complex. Stop rewriting the story so you’re always the victim, block these men, get therapy, and try living a quiet, boring, drama free life for once.

gishgalloping · 11/01/2026 22:11

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 21:56

I don't love drama, I don't want a man. I don't want any man let alone any of these. I haven't as someone put it, shagged anyone for years. And I have no inclination to either.

I do have to revise what I said about Jenny not wearing a wedding ring though. I've been shown some photos of her in her professional role yesterday by a friend and she definitely does. Also in a text from Gordon which I didn't reply to said he was going to a comic con in Glasgow last weekend. I have friends in Glasgow, and I know they like this sort of thing, and guess what it didn't exist, and Mrs Gordon was working that weekend in Peebles. The only comic con is him. I don't care, I'm not jealous. I'm cross at myself for limiting myself all those years to try to absolve myself I guess.

@Arlanymor that was me when I started seeing Gordon. I think Baz Luhrmann might have been No 1 in the charts then. It isn't me now. I hate myself for thinking like that.

Why do you care if Gordon’s going to Glasgow and what he’s doing? You’ve wasted too much of your life on this man. Block him and don’t look back.

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:16

gishgalloping · 11/01/2026 22:11

Why do you care if Gordon’s going to Glasgow and what he’s doing? You’ve wasted too much of your life on this man. Block him and don’t look back.

I don't care. It's just for context. I'm not asking for any help with that.

I'm using this thread as processing it all. It's not something I can tell people IRL as I feel so stupid. He told me if all my friends find out what I did (Lee, Canada), they will hate me. I wouldn't get the words out anyway.

OP posts:
Arlanymor · 11/01/2026 22:19

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:05

@Arlanymor Do you wear sunscreen?

Anyway thanks, I know I need to cut ties and I have dialled it down hoping he will go away, it's more dealing with the feelings of shame I was seeking help for. I don't need these twats in my life and I won't have them in it, but I need to learn to forgive myself. A lot of posters think I shouldn't.

Yes because I make a ghost look sunburned. Not sure how it equates this conversation but happy to answer the question. 50+ for me. (Or are you asking if I am Australian because BL is and maybe he sang a song once?! I'm not.)

I think you do need to learn to forgive yourself but I also think you need to recognise that posting on here will result in polarised opinions. I was cheated on and it ended my marriage, so it's hard for me to see things through others lenses. Shame takes a bit of time to dissipate - there's stuff I feel shame over - it doesn't eradicate overnight. But the more we share, the more we listen, the more we understand, the better it gets. I promise it does.

Eyesopenwideawake · 11/01/2026 22:19

Am I a terrible person who deserves to be guilty forever?

You're a shite novelist.

HTH.

RosaMundi27 · 11/01/2026 22:21

Don't take this the wrong way, but are you f*king insane?

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:22

Eyesopenwideawake · 11/01/2026 22:19

Am I a terrible person who deserves to be guilty forever?

You're a shite novelist.

HTH.

I'm not any kind of novelist and not purporting to be. @Arlanymor He was No 1 in the charts in the summer of 1999 with a spoken track called Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen.

@RosaMundi27 Why would you think I am insane? Of course I'm not.

OP posts:
fatphalange · 11/01/2026 22:22

Ooh I don’t know, houses this, property that. You’re a very scheming woman though so I’m sure you’ll figure it all out in the end, whatever it is.

flatterlylatterly · 11/01/2026 22:24

IveStuffedUp · 09/01/2026 17:11

I am no longer involved with any men, this is historic. What I really wanted opinions on is not to do with these men as they're history, apart from Gordon messaging from time to time. I should really have blocked him.

I wanted to know if you thought I was a nasty person at base, at heart, really to have got into this mess, because Gordon told me I am.

You sound muddled and ungrounded rather than nasty. But can it really help, hearing whether a bunch strangers think that you are, or are not, nasty at heart? Thinking that it will help could be part of the muddle. A better question is, do you want the kind of life you have been having for the last few years? If not, what can help you change things?

Arlanymor · 11/01/2026 22:25

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:22

I'm not any kind of novelist and not purporting to be. @Arlanymor He was No 1 in the charts in the summer of 1999 with a spoken track called Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen.

@RosaMundi27 Why would you think I am insane? Of course I'm not.

Edited

I know Rozalla - which I guess is the original? Must have missed the week he went to number one.

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:29

flatterlylatterly · 11/01/2026 22:24

You sound muddled and ungrounded rather than nasty. But can it really help, hearing whether a bunch strangers think that you are, or are not, nasty at heart? Thinking that it will help could be part of the muddle. A better question is, do you want the kind of life you have been having for the last few years? If not, what can help you change things?

I think he's nasty, and I was incredibly stupid. No of course I don't, but I haven't been in a relationship with him for a very long time. I've met him for a drink now and again, and he texts, but all the contact comes from him. I blocked him about 2 years ago but he blew up my landline. That stopped eventually.

OP posts:
flatterlylatterly · 11/01/2026 22:31

IveStuffedUp · 11/01/2026 22:29

I think he's nasty, and I was incredibly stupid. No of course I don't, but I haven't been in a relationship with him for a very long time. I've met him for a drink now and again, and he texts, but all the contact comes from him. I blocked him about 2 years ago but he blew up my landline. That stopped eventually.

I think you replied to the wrong post, OP.

HelloDenise · 12/01/2026 08:57

fatphalange · 11/01/2026 22:22

Ooh I don’t know, houses this, property that. You’re a very scheming woman though so I’m sure you’ll figure it all out in the end, whatever it is.

Unnecessarily spiteful and not my takeaway. The OP has done some gobsmackingly stupid things and wrecked her life but I don't see her as scheming or collecting a property portfolio!

Bigearringsbigsmile · 12/01/2026 10:37

Arlanymor · 11/01/2026 22:25

I know Rozalla - which I guess is the original? Must have missed the week he went to number one.

Rozalla had a hit with a song that went " everybody's free to feel good!"

Baz lurman had a big hit with this song... " everybody's free to wear sunscreen"

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/sTJ7AzBIJoI?si=VFjuiU80nQiq38aM

fatphalange · 12/01/2026 14:50

HelloDenise · 12/01/2026 08:57

Unnecessarily spiteful and not my takeaway. The OP has done some gobsmackingly stupid things and wrecked her life but I don't see her as scheming or collecting a property portfolio!

And it’s not spiteful to say she has wrecked her life etc 😂 that’s quite a write-off.
I didn’t even say she was collecting a property portfolio :/

Nocameltoeleggingsplease · 12/01/2026 15:45

I thinly Jenny is probably very unhappy and suffering but Gordon has gaslit you into thinking she’s a bad person.

Nocameltoeleggingsplease · 12/01/2026 15:46

Oh, and Gordon is a prick

HelloDenise · 12/01/2026 17:04

Nocameltoeleggingsplease · 12/01/2026 15:46

Oh, and Gordon is a prick

None of the men sound like they're much use.

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