A lack of self improvement among many men

[Ladyinrouge]

Firstly I realise this doesn't apply to all straight men, but I think Ive seen it enough to wonder if its a thing.
Im mid 40s & happily single. An amateur anthropologist, I like observing people from those I know well to those I don't know at all.

Most of the women and gay men I know are pretty big on self improvement. From say career, finances, travel,learning, dress sense, grooming, personal fitness. Obviously nobody is perfect and nobody should judge others. Im trying not to but would like to understand this.

I can think of very few straight men I know who are imo maximising their potential as people. Many of them seem to be doing the absolute minimum. This seems to apply across age groups (with the exception of very young men some of whom seem massively,perhaps too into the whole bodybuilding thing) and to single and attached men.
Im talking a lack of interests. A generally dour "things were better in the past" mentality. They probably could look after themselves, but dont. No great recipe repertoire (with 2 exceptions), not massively into hobbies outside watching sport and drinking. Poor posture, teeth, skin, hair, bad or unflatteringly dressed. Bad self centred conversation. A kind of heaviness about the way they move. A good few actually smell bad. I mean BO. Stained teeth and T shirts.

Look, maybe Im wrong, why the hell.should they not just look or act how they want.
But if so many are desperate to be in a relationship or just have casual sex, why wouldn't they make more of an effort. It could partly be the rural ish location Ive lived in for the last few years. I domt know. Would bw interested in your thoughts.

Men definitely need motivating, they have a tendency towards laziness and apathy if they're not getting that. They thrive on having goals and they are very good at focusing on things, sometimes to the detriment of other things. They're also definitely a lot less social than women - my husband would be happy for weeks on end in his own company as long as he had a project to work on.

Plus things like drugs and alcohol, pornography, computer games and even watching sports and excessively going to the gym are all distractions which men fall into easier than women do. And these things can sort of provide a proxy for motivation.

I honestly do think that part of the way you keep your marriage going is that as a woman you encourage and motivate your man, they're pretty simple creatures, a bit like cars. If you look after them properly they'll give you decades of loyal service!

I honestly do think that part of the way you keep your marriage going is that as a woman you encourage and motivate your man, they're pretty simple creatures, a bit like cars. If you look after them properly they'll give you decades of loyal service!

I really hope that’s tongue in cheek because otherwise it feels pretty disrespectful to your husband.

And btw my DH is far more social than I am. Preferences regarding socialising are a personality thing, not a male/female thing.

I find men less flexible and willing to try new things. Also an element of selfishness particularly with my ex. He wanted to do what he wanted. Well when we had a child he was still like that. My current husband is totally different thank God.

Yes it was a bit tongue in cheek but with a nugget of truth in there somewhere. Don't get me wrong, I like men a lot and they're brilliant at a lot of things we're not that good at. But they have a real tendency towards self-destruction, risk-taking and violence that women just don't have, you can't deny that.

It's almost as if the combination of the two sexes together would lead to the best outcomes!

On balance I do think women and family provide the motivation men need to do well. It's old fashioned, but then I'm old. And yes, I know that women shouldn't have to, and that men should be good for goodness's own sake, but I live in the real world and I've known a lot of men.

These men definitely exist - I’d say it’s about 50/50 of the men I know well enough to comment on.

As it happens they’re also the ones being divorced / dumped in their mid-40s / 50s.

The men I work with (professionals in the City) tend to fit into this bucket less often, I mean personal development is kind of baked in from a work and career perspective and so it tends to carry over into their personal lives more.

A lot of men are incredibly entitled, they think women owe them the time of day just for turning up and being men. I believe it is for this reason, amongst others that self improvement/awareness just isn’t on their radar.

I also think this is one of the factors in the “male loneliness epidemic”. If you go on dating sites / forum chats about dating you’ll find a lot of women saying very similar to the OP.

Over and over again you’ll see comments from women about how few men have done any work on themselves to resolve personality issues, mental health problems or the hangovers of childhood trauma compared to women.

Not all men by any means, but enough for it to be noticeable in the dating pool (layered on top of the fact that these are more likely to have been divorced in the first place).

Idk- @shuggleswas in agreement with it!

“A generally dour "things were better in the past" mentality. They probably could look after themselves, but dont. No great recipe repertoire (with 2 exceptions), not massively into hobbies outside watching sport and drinking. Poor posture, teeth, skin, hair, bad or unflatteringly dressed. Bad self centred conversation. A kind of heaviness about the way they move. A good few actually smell bad. I mean BO. Stained teeth and T shirts.”

it’s just casual misandry

I don't agree that it's "many" men but I would agree that overall, as a rule, there is a higher percentage of straight men like this vs other groups. Or perhaps it's that it's more likely to be true of straight men. So it's still not the majority, but it's more prevalent in that group than in others.

Did you read his post?