Please diagnose my DM

[Blueisthecolourilove]

Obviously I know you can't make a medical diagnosis.
But to those of you who understand and know a lot about unstable personality types, please hear me out and give me your opinion on what condition you think DM has got, I'd be very grateful, because I'm now losing my mind and I'm worried about my own MH. A large contributing factor to my collapsing MH is that I don't understand what's wrong with her. If I knew, I could read up on it all so that I understand better.
Here's what she's like:

• Hit me at full pelt with the back of her fist in the side of my face when I was 11 after I'd gone to our local bakers and bought her a mother's day cake with my saved up pocket money; I'd presented it to her whilst she was still in bed at midday. She said "Give me a slice". I went downstairs, served her a slice and took it up to her in bed. She ate it. She told me to get her a second slice. I did so, and when I gave her the 2nd plate of cake, I said "We should save some for later so we can have some after dinner to have together" . She sat up in bed, picked up the big slice of cake I'd given her, threw it in rage across the room, and it hit her bedroom window and slid down the glass. I'm surprised the glass didn't crack, as she threw it with almighty force. I'd saved up my weekly pocket money from DG for 6 weeks to buy this cake for her. I wanted to make her proud. I know it's silly but I was only 11 and I stopped buying the comics and sweets I usually bought with my pocket money from DG for 6 weeks to save up for this cake. I asked the bakers to ice a personal message on the cake topping, from me to her. So when she threw it in a rage right across the room against the window in response to me saying we should save the rest for later and screamed at me "I DON'T WANT YOUR FUCKING CAKE THEN" with a Medusa like fury in her eyes, I burst into tears and said with immense sadness "Why did you for that?" through my sobs. She lept out of bed, chased me down the stairs, struck me with full force across the side of my face with her clenched fist and then screamed "NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE ME DO!!!" whilst glowering at me with fury in her eyes. Then she went back to bed.
• Spent my childhood with her telling me "I might love you because you're my child but I DO NOT LIKE YOU". Years of being told that. I grew up thinking I'm dislikeable. I still think that.
• My DF left when I was 3. She spent my entire childhood telling me he doesn't care about me, isn't interested in me, and doesn't love me. All of those things are true, actually. He did completely dump me at 3 and has been NC with me since then. But she regularly reminded me throughout my life.
• Spent my whole childhood telling me how much she hated, loathed my paternal DGrandmother. Now me and DG were exceptionally close, all I remember of her was her adoration of me and her love, care and nurturing. DM spent my childhood raging about her to me. It was very confusing as a young child, to have a grandmother in my life who loved me so very much, and for my own DM to actively hate a family member who really cared for me.
• My beloved DG died when I was a teenager, and I was so distraught I actually went numb. My DM never discussed her death with me. On the day of her funeral, I turned 13. DM stayed in bed and refused to attend the funeral. I had never been to a funeral and I was distraught about my DG. I remember the severe tummy pain I had. I didn't know what to wear. I walked into DM's bedroom and asked "What should I wear?". She ignored me. Blanked me. I went and put on black clothes. Black top, black skirt, black tights, black shoes. I walked back in to her room and said "Do I look ok dressed in this?". No response. I was ignored. I remember looking at her back, and the back of her head. She didn't even turn round to look at me or what I was wearing. Uncle arrived and took me to funeral. I was dropped back home that evening and not one word was spoken to me from DM about the fact I'd just attended my grandmother's funeral. To this day she's never spoken about it to me, only about how much she hated her. There was nothing to hate about my DG.
• When DG was still alive, I'd go and stay for entire weekends on a regular basis. She'd organise for a taxi to collect me from home on Friday after school and take me to her house. How I loved her home; it was my safe haven. When I got home by taxi on Sunday night, DM would ignore me. I'd sort myself out and get myself in to bed. Bear in mind I was younger than 13. She'd eventually come into my room and say "You've got fat. She's fed you up again with trifles hasn't she. You're fat again. 1 weekend away and you come back fat. Every time. Now I'll have to feed you vegetables all week.". Then, after that, whilst I was laying in bed with my light off to get to sleep before school the next morning, sge'd say in an aggressive, hostile voice "Did you enjoy yourself then?!". She'd be sarcastic. Almost sneering. I generally didn't answer. But once, I nodded and said yes, I had a nice time. She walked out in silence. I fell asleep. Next thing I knew, she came charging back in, opened up my wardrobe and pulled all my clothes out on to the floor, I had loads of stuff in there and she was wildly pulling it all off hangers and off the shelves, screaming "GO AND FUCKING LIVE THERE THEN! IF YOU THINK IT'S SO FUCKING GOOD THERE THEN MOVE OUT AND GO AND LIVE THERE!!!". She threw a suitcase onto my floor, told me to pack and get back over there. It was midnight. I'd been sound asleep. I had school the next morning. I was distraught. Then she'd tear out of my room and not come back. I'd fall asleep crying on my bed. This happened several times over. I'd get myself up for school the next day and go in and would tell nobody.
• I spent every day of my childhood with a tummy ache. Every single day. It never went away until the day I left home at 18. I told teachers through primary school and nobody ever did anything about it. I gave up telling teachers by secondary school. I even told DM as a cry for help, to make her see how worried abd nervous I was feeling every day. She responded by feeding me prunes and telling me I had a tummy ache because I must be constipated.
• My cousin was 5 years older than me. She bullied me. I told my DM. She really was horrible to me and would make me cry then laugh at me. Went on for years. Still DM would drag me round to her house every Friday night so she could socialise with and get stoned with the group of adults round at my uncle's house. I'd sit on the stairs and watch them all using bongs all night, way past my bedtime. No adult ever spoke to me. I was ignored. Then taken home at midnight, exhausted.
• When my DB was born, when I was 7, I loved him and asked DM if I could have a photo taken with him. She snarled at me and snapped "Brush your bloody hair then, you look too bloody awful for a photo". My 1st and only photo taken of me and baby DB was taken of me feeling like crying at how I'd just been spoken to by DM. It's a very sad photo.
• I was never asked how I was. She never asked me how my day went at school. She never took any interest in my friendships. She never facilitated play dates or anything. She took zero interest in my education, in my homework, in my GCSEs, in my A levels, in my degree. None. If you asked her what GCSEs I passed, or what A levels I took, she couldn't tell you. She never asked if I was ok when I was mute at home. She never had any interest in my thoughts, feelings or emotions. None whatsoever. I was told I was selfish if I ever felt upset. If I was quiet, which I generally was, I was told I was bad for making her feel like she'd done something wrong.
• She left me in charge of my 8 year old DB when I was 13 from 6pm through till the next morning whilst she went and worked a night shift at a nursing home 20 miles away. No mobile phones for contact in those days. We also had no landline. I remember feeling really nervous every time she left and was gone overnight. I found it scary all night on my own responsible for my young brother. She was on UC as a single parent but topped it up with this 1 night shift every week. Yet she never worked during the hours whilst we were at school, when it wouldn't have impacted me.
• She sent me in to our nearest town once, on the bus, by myself, aged 11. I didn't want to go and I told her this. She said I had to. She sent me on a 30 minute bus journey in to town to return an item she'd bought, get a refund and bring it back to her. I remember telling her I don't know what to do and I don't know how to do the journey by myself. She gave me very brief instructions of which bus to get and sent me off. I remember very clearly standing on the pavement in town, after having got her refund, looking at a whole long road of different bus stops and not knowing which one I needed to stand at. I started crying. I didn't know if I was on the right side of the road or not. I genuinely didn't know how to get home. A very kindly older woman noticed me standing alone crying on a busy town street. I get very overwhelmed easily and I was feeling very badly overwhelmed at this point. The woman talked to me and she helped me, walked me to the correct bus stop, and saw me onto the bus. She spoke to me so kindly, I remember thinking it was so different to how I usually got spoken to. She was so patient with me. I was so grateful and I will forever remember her kindness. When I got home and told DM that I'd got confused and hadn't known how to get home and that a lady helped me, she scolded me and told me off for being "bloody stupid".
• When I moved out at 18 because she'd moved a pervert man into our house who used to look up my nightie and smile suggestively at me, and stare at me suggestively whilst I brushed my hair, and openly talk about fancying me, and would have very loud SI with my DM in the next room then delight in asking me the next morning if I heard anything, she became bereft at me moving out. Crying. Drama. Looking on her face like someone had been murdered in response to me saying I was moving out. I couldn't understand it. She'd never shown any affection to me, yet here she was absolutely devastated about me moving out.
• Never hugged me. Ever.
• She didn't care for my needs as a child. For example, I remember a friend's mum asking me if my DM ever brushed my hair when I went round to my friend's house after school once. Only when I got home and looked in a mirror, still in my school uniform, did I see i had a gigantic great clump of days old knotted hair at the back of my head. I was 10.
• She attacked me and pulled my hair as an adult so badly that clumps of my hair was falling out at work the next day. That was over an argument started by her about wanting DH to give her a lift home, but he was working late and I needed to put little DC to bed so I said could she get the bus home instead. Apparently she didn't like the tone of my voice, so she physically attacked me.
• I tried to show her affection in my 20s, I linked my arm through hers as we walked together, I wanted to build a relationship with her. She yanked her arm away from me and hissed "Get off! People will think we're lesbians!!" and she looked disgusted and angry and scowled at me.
• My entire adult life, from 18 onwards, has been spent with her angrily ranting, and angrily ranting, and angrily ranting, and angrily ranting. About me. About my DB. About my DH. About my SiL. About my DN (a child). About her neighbours. About people on the bus. In the shops. It goes round on a loop. The same subjects on a loop for 30 years. Non stop. Anger, anger, anger, Rage, rage, rage.
• She HATES my DH and makes his life a misery. He refuses to engage with her now.
• She HATES my DB's partner. Hates her. Hates her family.
• I have never heard an adult rant and criticise a child like she does my DN. Every time I defend my DN, which is every time she rants about her, I have to brace myself to be screamed at by DM for taking DN's side (a child).
• She sends endless texts telling me I'm a terrible daughter for causing her depression. She tells me I am the sole reason she is depressed.
• She screams at DH and tells him she hates him
• She is often demonic towards me in her behaviour. Her eyes change like she's suddenly been possessed. I've never seen someone's eyes change in anger like hers do.
• When my baby was born, I didn't want to see her. She let herself into my home with a spare key (she knew where we left it) whilst I was at home with my baby, and peered her head around the corners of my rooms, glaring madly at me. When I looked up to see her, she'd jerk back behind the wall and hide. Then slowly peer back round again and glare at me with madness in her eyes. It was so weird, it was so obvious I could see her and knew she was there because our eyes were meeting, yet she kept hiding back behind my hallway wall and then slowly peering round repeatedly. I was completely freaked out by this behaviour. I told her to leave. She started shouting at me in my own home with a newborn baby in my arms. I was home alone. I ordered her out. She shrieked and swore and shouted at me. She eventually turned and ran out. As I shut the front door behind her, she turned back round, rammed her foot into my doorframe so I couldn't shut my door, started kicking my door back open, and started hissing at me a thousand hateful things about me, glaring at me with that deranged look in her eyes. She left when a neighbour showed up.
• Her arms are covered in self harm scars. Not superficial. But great, long, deep rivets of scarred scissor wounds to both forearms.
• She argues at me non stop for not seeing her enough. She argues non stop all the time at me for making her feel excluded and isolated. She has argued at me for not seeing her enough since I left home. She never invites me to meet her or anything, she simply attacks me on a permanent basis for not seeing her enough. I've been attacked for this for 30 years. It pushes me away further, it doesn't result in me seeing her more.
• Every Christmas, every birthday, every Easter, every summer is a huge drama leading to her having a meltdown. Every special occasion is annihilated by her turning it into a histrionic drama.
• Never does she ask me how I am. Never does she ask me what I've been up to. Never does she ask me how my job is going. Never does she ask me how my holiday was. I don't think she even knows where I go to on holiday. I tell her and she doesn't listen. She never listens to anything I talk about. Ever. She constantly non stop interrupts, interjects, looks away, changes the subject, starts talking about herself again. Zero interest in me.
• She says it's my fault her mood is low. That I am the cause of all her problems.
• She had a shocking argument once with her next door neighbour because they cut a shrub down in their garden. Went round there blazing and shouting at them for chopping it down. It wasn't a privacy issue. She simply felt they had no right to cut it down. It was in their back garden. They never spoke to her again.
• My childhood memories are full of her physically fighting. Physically fighting a boyfriend she had, stabbing him over and over again with nail scissors, blood everywhere, in front of me watching aged 9. Physically fighting with female neighbours, hair pulling, slapping, screaming, shouting and swearing, in front of me.
• I grew up silent. Just knowing that nobody else I knew lived like this. I'm still incredibly quiet now. I can't speak up for myself if I'm wronged, and I assume nobody likes me or wants to hear about me. This makes me less popular than more outgoing chatty people.
• Nobody except you knows all this. I have told nobody.
• There is so, so much more to tell. I think it would take me all weekend.
• But here's the thing. Throughout all of this, she buys me gifts. She gives me money. She gives me thoughtful presents. She made my childhood bedroom look beautiful the way she decorated it. She buys me lovely things. She says all she wants to do is see me regularly and to be spending all her time with me. She texts me pages of loving messages. But then she argues at me for breaking her heart by not seeing her enough. And if I don't appear ecstatic with the presents she gives me, all hell breaks lose and she's arguing at me for being ungrateful.
• What has she got? Bipolar Disorder? BPD? Narcissism? Insanity? What? I need to know because I need to understand. If anyone has experience of how I've described her, please tell me. I will never know from her because she wont go to her GP. She says she doesn't need to because she knows what the problem is with her feeling this way; the problem is me. So, she says, what can her GP do about me?!? Exactly. No point in going.

It doesn't matter what is wrong with her. What matters is you removing her from your life. Move. Govtovthe outer hebrides if need be. Get away from her.

But I do need to understand.
I have a visceral need to understand.
Otherwise I am not going to be able to work through recovering my own MH.

Gosh op, I felt I needed to give you a response to this because your pain is so evident in what you have written and I can tell that it cost you an effort to share it, even anonymously.

I am so sorry to hear this, and I do hope you manage to find a place of peace with what has clearly been traumatising.

The first thing I would say is this isn't your fault - and you must never believe it was.

The second thing is that sometimes I wonder how helpful fault and blame is as a concept. The truth about life and human nature is it is messy, yet we strive to put it into boxes. One of those boxes is diagnoses - and I'm certain plenty of posters will come and put your DM into plenty of boxes. But again, except for certain circumstances where the diagnosis is really important in helping the person, I wonder if sometimes we lean on them too much as a one-stop explanation.

The thing that is very clear is that your DM was struggling. Again this was absolutely NOT your fault, but sometimes life can just have various strands that tangle.

There is no doubt much of this was abuse. You may need to walk away - at least for a time - to heal.

I think your DM was feeling pain from this situation too, not least from guilt at the ramifications, aside from any pain in what brought her to that place - and I actually wonder if that's what she really meant by saying you are "the problem." You certainly caused none of it, but you might, blamelessly, be the bit she has most remorse and guilt over. I hope in some small way that is a kind of comforting thought.

However, this is a huge weight to have carried and you definitely would benefit from the support of therapy. I wish your DM could have had that sooner.

It is normal to feel angry with her, but I am not sure that looking for either blame allocation or an "explanation" in the form of a diagnosis is the place to start. I think for you the most important thing to hang onto is this isn't anything you caused.

Someone can give you a name for it op, but it may never really capture what demons she suffered from - and she clearly did.

Again, I would say, none of that is of your making.

Thank you😢
Thank you so much.

Look after yourself op.

No-one deserves this - especially not a child.

And it may be in a similar way your DM didn't really deserve to have landed in the place she was in either.

I have every hope you will work through this and find a brighter, more peaceful phase of your life. You seem to be making a good start towards that.💐

Your mother has narcissistic personality disorder. Every single word you have written sounds like my mother and my lived experiences of my childhood right up until I went fully no contact with her a few years ago in my 40's.

How she is is NOT your fault.
How she treats you is NOT your fault.
SHE can stop herself being abusive, but she won't because you have been trained to take her breadcrumbs.

I suggest for one thing finding the 'We took you to stately homes' threads on here. Very informative. Very supportive.

Do not blame yourself. DO walk away even for now and give your head some space to think. DO NOT blame yourself I will repeat over and over. Her past demons were for her to learn from and seek therapy for, she should not be passing her guilt as a failure on to you.

I am so sorry OP. Your post I read every word and drank my own tears in doing so not only for the girl you did not get to be but because it triggered the same in me. There is no excuse for people like this. They KNOW what they are doing to us, she knows what she is doing to you. Read about narcissistic mothers and being the daughter of one. It has helped me so so much to know I am not alone and that I am not at fault and now I am so vocal about it because nobody deserves the abuse you have been put through. You are a worth so much more. So much more.

I'm no expert but I have BPD, depression / anxiety /CPTSD from my parents. My mum (doesn't have a diagnosis because fuck you all, she's fine lol) but she was treated recently in a psych ward for Bipolar schizophrenia and they suspect narcissism. Obviously she refused to stay put for a diagnosis, which sucks. Anyway, she sounds like my mum (I would say NPD and bipolar). My mum's controlled us with money/gifts my entire life. Cold hearted but financially would gift me. It fucking hurts. I cut her off almost a year ago, and it was the best decision I've made. Honestly I know you want / need answers but sadly with people like this, they truly don't believe anything is wrong and it's so hard to find out. You'll probably never know what it is completely, but please know you did nothing to deserve her hatred.

This isn't love. When you're ready (whether planned or spontaneous like myself) you'll cut her out and realise how much better it feels. I'm so sorry but please find comfort in knowing you're not alone and many of us had mother's like this too 💔. If you're a parent there's a therapy I self referred to called the parenting project, I was able to get free therapy and discuss my childhood(both my arsehole parents) and get some really sound advice. She reassured me the issue was my mum and knowing this, really really really helped me. I cut my mum out my life at 27, and I'm so happy I did it. She will not see me or my kids again, and if was completely her doing. These people pretend to love, but they're not capable. It's nothing YOU did. Put her in your past and get some help with your own MH for your future, so you can very gradually heal and forget her and her torment. Don't blame yourself for her being shitty. Some people do not deserve to be parents.

There are many things from your post that resonate with my own experience with my mother. If you would like to inbox me I’d be happy to chat x

One thing for sure, the problem is not you!
Those behaviours often seen in people with bpd: the self harm, the awful events wrecking every christmas or birthday, the jealousy of your relationship with your DG. Elements of the witch (scaring you with the newborn) and the waif (depressed and its all your fault). The queen punishing you for daring to suggest keeping some cake for later (so cruel). These are all part of cluster B.
It doesnt really matter what the label is, its resulting in the abuse of you and the mental suffering you are going through because this is your mum who doesnt know how to love you and will never be able to love you or meet your needs. The buying of the gifts is the way she expresses love. Have a search for daughters of bpd mothers to see most of these behaviours described, and the effects on kids (anxiety: thatll be the stomach pain, lack of self esteem and poor boundaries) The "splitting" of texting you loving messages and then berating you for not seeing you enough. One minute worshipped, the next despised. Basically your mum has a very low level of emotional maturity and likely no self awareness.
Look for the book "understanding the borderline mother" by christine lawson. Understanding what is going on is helpful but it doesnt really help practically in dealing with it. You cannot ever get that person to see they are the problem. You cant say, i think you have "x". That will only ever make things millions of times worse.

Sources of help:
There is a book "walking on eggshells"
A website called "out of the fog".
A communication technique : PUVAS (its an acronym) to help you deal with the manipulation.

Its really hard to deal with and im so so sorry. The options are try to get yourself to a better place mentally (therapist or whatever helps you), trying to go lowish contact (grey rock, no drama, be boring, give her very little information) or no contact (may not be an option for you as its your mum). The out of the fog website has more information.

Part of getting through this is coming to terms with the knowledge that you wont ever have the mum you needed to unconditionally love and support you, but its ok, you are okay, you are enough, you are an adult now. The inner child in you is still looking for that mum (but you can be your own parent for that now, look up "parenting your inner child" ). It is a kind of grieving for the mother you havent got. It doesnt mean you have to hate her, you can hate what she has done, how she made you feel, but it might help to think of her as broken. You can have compassion for her but also not allow her to abuse you further. Xx

Well there's no pont having a pity party over her......she is what she is.

You do however need to step up as a wife and mother and stop subjecting your kids and husband to this woman......if you want to see her then do that alone.

You might find the stately homes thread (it's in relationships) useful. That's for people who grew up with abusive parents and are trying to deal with the fallout.

I don't want to go into details about my own story here, but my father was abusive (violent, emotionally abusive, controlling, just downright cruel when he felt like it. Awful man.). I cut contact with him in my late teens and never saw him again. I spent a very long time wrangling with it, trying to put a name to it, trying to work out what was wrong with him. I have logical explanations for bits of it (he was abused as a child, cycle of violence, he had very poor mental health and eventually had a catastrophic breakdown and never really recovered).

My relationship with my mother is also problematic. She's very selfish and self-absorbed. She used me as a child, I can see now, for emotional support and comfort. She's also just a terrible parent who gives terrible advice, is often quite spiteful, and TBH isn't that interested in me.

I understand the need to explain, to label, to feel like you finally understand, and once you've worked it out you'll feel better. There are two things to say to that - first is that this is a reaction to being raised by a parent who put you in charge of managing their emotions. You were told that you were responsible for how she felt and behaved. This simply isn't true. She was an adult, she was responsible for herself. Being told this, growing up with this message, it makes you codependent, which is what drives the burning desire to understand.

What I've learned is that you can't ever understand, not really, nor do you need to. You will use thousands of hours of your life, which you can never get back, thinking about this, doing the mental gymnastics, trying to find an answer, and it's not a productive use of our time. You can (and should) use that time to work on your own behaviour and the unhealthy ideas, beliefs, reactions and thoughts that the childhood has left you with. That's the gift you can give yourself.

Believing that you can't possibly help yourself until you understand her is a really dangerous idea to hang on to. You can heal without understanding. Put yourself first. You're allowed. You matter now, not her. xx.

FWIW, I believe in my father's case it was NPD, because he had a total collapse after my parents divorced.

I don't know what's wrong with my mother. I suspect some sort of neurodiversity, possibly autism, but she was also the enabler for a narc and I am sure being married to one left her with issues that she refuses to get help for. But why she ended up married to him in the first place is an interesting question.

And why the hell are you still giving your mother any room in your life?? What she did to you is child abuse. You could, if you wanted, go to the police and tell them what you told us. It's not too late.

You do not have to have a relationship with someone who abuses you just because they happen to be a parent.

We are allowed to say no, we've given you enough of our time now, you've had your share and you can't have any more.

The need to understand is the need that comes before the need to give up.

If for some reason, we have (consciously or subconsciously decided) that we couldn’t give up (like a bond of loyalty or the need to be loved by our parents), we can stay stuck on the ‘trying to understand’ phase.

Also, the need to understand the other is a necessary part of grieving, but when it takes all the space in your mind, it also shows how we have never been made to feel it was ok to centre ourselves, to think of ourselves first, to give ourselves power over our own lives.

My 2 cents of personal experience. I spent many years trying to understand my parents or people who hurt me in the same way you do OP.

You have caused absolutely none of her problems. The problem is not you.

There is only one way to describe her, and that is truly evil.

It doesn't matter what conditions she is suffering from. You have suffered horrific abuse from her your entire life, and nobody deserves that treatment. How could anyone do that to a child?

She is evil. It is not your fault that she is the way she is.

So sorry that your childhood was such a struggle OP. No one here can say for sure what is wrong with your mother but it will be some kind of personality disorder. There is no excuse for the way she treated to you, she abused you throughout your life and no amount of money, gifts and lovely messages can make up for the torment you were subjected to as a child.
Start the healing process now by going completely no contact with her and by having counselling for yourself. Be gentle with yourself and concentrate on your own family.
At whatever cost protect your children from her as she doesn't deserve to be in their lives.
There is no point in trying to understand her, that's just more wasted years trying to fathom the unfathomable. She is who she is and none of it was your fault.

What a horrible response to a very upsetting post!

Oh OP. My biological mother was the same - so much is similar .

There is some very wise advice here from people who understand all too well.

My two cents' worth: Your mother was extremely damaged (do you know any of her own childhood) and when that happens, especially young, someone can grow up trying to look after themselves and protect themselves but without any idea how to do it properly. So instead of setting reasonable limits (how can a 7yo child set any limits against an abusive parent? they can't!) they try to take care of themselves by looking after their feelings. They are fighting a huge battle between their own tempestuous emotions and need to be valued, and their more sensible selves that know that 'something is very wrong'.

Over time the need to protect their own feelings and self-worth becomes greater and greater and the more sensible part is slowly worn down and destroyed. So they become ... honestly, monstrous. Full of pain, and passing that pain on to others. People with severe untreated BPD are catastrophic parents because inside, they are still (or go back to being) toddlers but with an adult's body and powers. No one wants to be at the mercy of a toddler.

As they get worse, their perception of reality changes and decays until everything that happens, happens only in relation to them. They are the sun and everyone else orbits around them and must serve their needs (usually guessing what exactly is needed without being told and woe befall you if you don't understand without being told).

The only way someone with severe BPD can be helped is if 1) they want help and 2) get the right support - DBT treatment and people around them who can be supportive but also put up very firm boundaries. I've seen it work.

Without that will and without the right support and people around them the result is ... your mother, my biological mother and the parent of some of the other people on this thread. A destructive wreck living in great pain/distress and spreading great pain/distress. She may have loved you in her own way (the presents) but her absolute inability, and it probably was inability, to control her pain dominated her life and yours then. The bonds we have with our mother run deepest of all, I sometimes think, maybe second only to the bond with our own children. Certainly broken/destructive bonds with our mother affect many of us all our lives, although some healing can come.

There was nothing you could have done as a child. Nothing. As I say I've seen it at close quarters and seen the effects on the children involved too, and it's heartbreaking.

Which leaves you with a complex problem - you love her, you want her as a good mother. It's the puppies who are given the most love, attention and healthy boundaries who grow up the most confident and happy dogs. The ones who are loved one minute and pushed away or punished the next don't. We aren't much different, tbh.

Someone up thread used the words 'witch' and 'waif' and they fit very well for the woman you've described. Neither can be a good mother. I really think you need therapy, and probably a lot of it with the right person, before you can begin to make sense of your experience of your mother and give it a place in your life. Otherwise it's at risk of influencing you in ways that you may not even realise, as is happening in my biological mother's family with her children.

What I would say, gently, is that people are capable far more extreme behaviour than we ever like to think. Your mother is not unique; nor are the other sorts of appalling parents. The explanation for yoru mother's way of existing may lie there. It's said with BPD that 'genetics loads the gun, environment fires the trigger'. Something almost certainly happened to your mum in her childhood that was bad enough that it tipped her off balance and without treatment she spiralled off worse and worse. I'm afraid that sometimes people can behave like she did, or become as ill as she was, or sometime simply choose to behave in ways that can only be called wicked.

I hope that one day you can find a measure of peace, OP. Sincerely wish you well, and I'm so very sorry for the pain and confusion and hurt you went through as a child. You ~can~ give it a place in your life-experience but I do think you will need help.

(and if you managed to read all that, wow heh)

I wanted to say too that from observing my biological mother everythign became about protecting her own sense of self-worth.

She could turn in an instant into a screaming manipulative and violent harpy because you forgot to put a piece of lemon in her gin and tonic - her thought patterns were 'gin and tonic needs lemon, things need to be done properly, she hasn't put the lemon in, she can't do things properly, she's useless, she's bad, and she doesn't care about me because she won't bring me a proper gin and tonic, how dare she treat me so shabbily, I'm her mother, she's bad, she's insulting me, she deserves everything she gets!' and you end up with the gin and tonic in your face or being beaten up.

It comes from deeply mistaken thought patterns around how things should be done to be done properly, and the sense of not being cared for and an ego that's grown into an unhealthy elephant - however crazy the steps become, that's the initial thought patterns, at least in my mother's case.

So with your terribly sad example of the cake and your mother, she may have had something similar?

You are not responsible for your mum.

She failed you and that is on her. You deserve to never have to see her again. Your family is owed this. Leave no forwarding address.

Fwiw I spent 5 years no contact with my bio. mother after she demanded an apology for referring to the time she tried to strangle me (!). She denied it ever happened and I was an evil child for making out she'd ever do such a thing.

In the end we resumed very limited contact and I did see once every couple of years, but kept it to an hour or two's limit. She did for that hour try to control herself because there was enough of love left in her to want to keep contact with me and she knew I'd walk if she behaved badly. More than an hour or so she couldn't have managed.

I did let her see my eldest baby but never left him alone with her even to go to the loo unless several other people were around. She could turn in an instant.

Whatever diagnosis your mum might be able to get does not excuse her treatment of you. There is no diagnosis that gets her off the hook for that sustained treatment of a child - her child. If she wasn't able to parent you appropriately she should have asked for help or even, if there were no family to help, given you up into care.

You have said you feel less likeable because of how your mum treated you. You need to find your anger. Imagine your own children growing up believing that you didn't like them. She was the adult. You, as her child shouldn't have to do anything special, just be yourself, to be treated with kindness and love.

I don't think you should allow her to cause friction in your relationships and marriage so I would consider breaking contact.

This.

Im so sorry you were a severely abused child and the child you will stay abused as it is past.

The adult you needs to get the fuck away from her and any of her flying monkeys or anyone that tries to suck you back in or thinks you should do anyone to have sort of contact with her. She may well have MH problems but she is a child abuser.

Your father left her and he didn’t keep you safe either. You have been abused by her all your life.
This is not YOUR fault. You didn’t cause this. You could have been Mother Teresa she would have found fault. My father once screamed at me at aged 7 as he got a protractor and checked that the piece of paper I was writing on was at 90 degrees to my desk - it wasn’t it was 85 degrees and he punched me. I was told I was worthless, thick, fat and stupid for 18 years. That stayed me for decades after and it’s only in the last 10 years since serious therapy and meeting my normal - really lovely husband that I am starting to be me. I achieved - as a child I was forced to - but it was never enough. Degrees everything - was never enough I was never enough.

I thought long and hard about changing my first name (he named me) and my surname (his). I married an abuser first and then raised my children alone until my current DH.

I didn’t get through your first post it was fucking horrific. I hope you have absolutely no contact with her. I like you had a normal lovely grandmother who died when I was 13. My mother said to me - can’t go running to her anymore can you? What a bitch.

my parents are both still alive. I wish at 18 I had changed my name by deed poll, moved totally away and created a new me. I couldn’t I didn’t have the tool kit to do it. I though maybe I can help them, maybe I can please them and make them happy, maybe I can get them to see me and hard I’m trying. My parents at 87 and 82 and alive and kicking. They do not have any contact with us or my husband. I didn’t change my name and we live in a lovely town - the same town I grew up in up in. We don’t see them and for years I thought about moving away (I moved back as a single parent) but actually I don’t want to move. I love my church (they aren’t members) my children’s schools, my dog walks, my house and my allotment. They have my mobile number and my email - haven’t heard from them for 5 years. They didn’t see my eldest graduate, didn’t see my middle one get a levels and go to uni, they don’t see the youngest, they didn’t see me get remarried and they have no idea where I live (they lost their shit when I moved and I didn’t get them my address 10 years ago). I used to be fearful shopping and now I don’t. This is my home and my town. Despite my father telling me I didn’t have any friends and was a loser. I have great really great friends. Guess who doesn’t?

some abusers are mirrors everything my father screamed at me is I believe what he believes deep down about himself. I used to think what if he is ND? Or unwell etc but you know what it doesn’t matter. He is abusive and it was his job to seek help if he ever thought he might be / not mine. His job to protect me etc

I hope you are safe and happy. Often when I have a wobble I talk to DH or the dog. Or I talk to my inner child. I say ‘ it’s ok I’m here now. This isn’t your fault (little Emma- which is little me) it really isn’t your fault darling. I’m here and you are safe now etc and then I give myself a warm bath and a hug and a cup of hot chocolate.

I did have serious therapy for about 5 years before I met DH and that is the only thing that made me go NC.

You can (you are strong you survived this abuse) protect your adult self and your children. My children have had no contact since aged 5, 14 and 20. 5 year old one can’t remember them, now. The 14 year old one wanted to go no contact she came across them aged 18 in Tesco and said she walked by them strong and ignored them. 20 year old same as 18.

I saw my mother once in Boots and blanked her, she flickered recognition and I tensed and I thought you start on me bitch and I will walk away - not because I’m not struggled enough but because I am strong enough to choose.

I Used to twist myself in knots about being estranged what if they are ill or die / what if I get a phone call saying they are in hospital and near the end! And after years of this I woke up and thought you know what I can get this the fuck away from me and I can make my choice if and when that happens. Go, don’t go, tell them to fuck off or whatever I choose in that moment. What ever I do will be ok and the right thing to do. They can’t not ever blame me what I do as they no longer have a hold. It is called dropping the rope.