Quiet types

[YerWot]

Hello, I am hoping for thoughts from anyone in a similar situation. Long post alert! I'm not online all day, so thought it easier to try to get all the info out in one post.

My husband has always been a quiet type. I've thought that it was one of his strengths; in meetings, he'd sit quietly and then - BAM! - come out with an incisive comment that surprises people into action. I'd thought it meant he was a good listener. But now I'm not sure whether he's getting quieter or I'm getting more intolerant (peri is making me intolerant of other things). We're in our late 40s and been married nearly 25 years. We're in our late 40s and been married nearly 25 years.

I think it's him that's getting quieter. We were out for the day recently, and cycling through a canal tunnel - he exited first, but didn't think to tell the waiting cyclist that I was behind him, so me and the other cyclist had an awkward dance next to the canal. It was all fine, but would have been much safer for me if my husband had spoken to the other cyclist. Another situation - I was hoping we would go to visit his family overseas over Christmas. But this required him to do various talking and negotiating with family; he hasn't done it in time, so we're not going. Both things make me sad; that he was unable or unwilling to prioritise my safety or happiness (or his and his own mum's happiness as we now won't see his family over Christmas). But I can't talk to him about this, because he just clams up - he won't say anything, or at best will say "I don't know what to say!". So it's not the silent treatment as such, but it may as well be.

We do talk about lots of stuff, but he's only comfortable if it's about work or our hobby or something easy. Talking about the big stuff is very difficult as he just doesn't say anything. I've got a couple of big issues at the moment, and feel like talking to him is pointless because it'll just turn into a monologue. We've got a big problem with one of our young adult children - I think it is just a phase and will pass, but the phase is likely to last a few more years yet. And we just can't talk about it because it ends up one-sided with me doing all the talking and feeling that he is increasingly distant. There's no to-and-fro of conversation. I don't think either of us are ND - he's just really quiet and getting quieter, or I'm getting less tolerant. Or both!

The thing that worries me is that we're not yet 50; there's a lot of years of life yet. When he does talk, he is also literally quiet, and it can be hard to hear him. There are hearing issues in my family; most of my siblings wear hearing aids. My hearing is currently extremely good, but it won't be a surprise if it goes downhill and I need aids before I'm 60. The eventual isolation of hearing loss with a husband who won't talk to me, at a volume I can hear, frightens me.

I expect that counselling or therapy seems like an obvious answer. I am frightened of this because I was abused as a child, and I'm not ready to confront that yet while our children are still at home. For the moment, I'm quite good at parking that. My husband has been a rock in helping me with this, as I do get flashbacks occasionally (very rarely though) and he's had to change his behaviour to help me.

I do love him dearly, and am quite sure he loves me dearly too. I do most of the household mental load stuff, he does most of the earning, and that works for us. But I can't do this for him. I have got friends that I talk to about big issues, but he's my dearest friend and partner and I want to share my life with him! How do I resign myself to this increasing silence? Or how do I explain this to him in a way that he will see that he needs to step up? How have other women coped with this?

Yes it’s called getting older. I’m the same. Always been the quiet type and as I get older I have even less and less tolerance for people and small talk.
Its unlikely something you will be able to get him to change so you’ll either have to get used to it or leave.

I've found that as we get older we have become more extreme versions of the people we were before and less willing to hide ourselves. In our household ND is also at play and the traits we each had are just more obvious / less masked / stronger; but I suspect that pattern is true of all kinds of personality quirks.

I know you say that he has supported you in the past, but his behaviour atm sounds more emotionally unavailable than just 'quiet' - it's awful that he won't talk to you about worries around your children, it must feel really lonely for you.

Could you possibly try writing all this down for him? Maybe he could deal with it better if he had time to digest it on his own before having to speak. If nothing changes you might have to think about whether you want to spend the rest of your life in this rather sad relationship

I think the issue might be that you do too much talking rather than he's too quiet. There was a lot of waffle in that post

Apart from the fact that he literally speaks softly, this doesn’t sound like ‘quiet’ is the problem. I agree with @Arrivederla that he sounds emotionally unavailable, but he also sounds incredibly passive and lazy. Saying ‘Another bike coming!’ to a fellow-cyclist or phoning his family don’t require more than the most minimal effort, but he didn’t do them, and he seems to have checked out of all but the most minimal conversation, about anything significant, like your children. His silence sounds to me like an aggressive act at times, when you are trying to talk about something important.

I think counselling, if you want to try to save the marriage, is a good idea, though I’m assuming he will refuse to go. In which case I’d find myself an individual therapist to have someone to talk to about your own life. You won’t need to address the abuse until you’re ready. A good therapist will respect you on this.

What an unpleasant post. Are you actually suggesting that the OP’s husband refused to say ‘Cyclist behind me!’ or to talk to his family about Christmas as a silent protest at his wife’s comparative talkativeness?🙄

You’re too young to live the rest of your life like this. If you’ve ruled out any MH issues as the cause, it’s possible that he’s so reliant on you to do the mental load and life admin that he’s opted out of everything.
My ex did this, to the extent that he’d even refuse to phone for a takeaway. It was infuriating. He would also talk about his work but little else and this wore me down completely.
Strangely enough after I divorced him he found the ability to do and say a lot of things that he wouldn’t when married. He had a massive shock and is now a competent functioning adult, but this wouldn’t have happened when we were together, he simply had no reason to change.
You can try to talk to him and explain the consequences of not communicating for the next 30-40 years, although I don’t expect that’ll work. Or leave and spend the decades you have left without him making you miserable.

No. I'm saying some people are quiet and others talk too much. Not telling a random stranger that there's a cyclist behind you is not a big deal worthy of ending a marriage over

Only that’s not the issue. He doesn’t appear to ever say anything. It’s like using his words is some kind of huge, very occasional favour he’s doing the OP.

Sounds like hubby is losing interest in the marriage.

OP this sounds hard work as communication is so important in a thriving rationship and currently you are doing all the work. Your husband sounds very self absorbed and and withdrawn but it's more than that if he refuses to discuss problems about one of your children.
I agree joint counselling would be a good idea, if he would go. If not you may have to lay it on the line and explain to him that his increasing silence and refusal to be a participant in your marriage is threatening your future together. Hopefully that might jolt him into some kind of response.

From experience you will need to accept small steps and a gradual change. I could have written this some years ago. I eventually managed a conversation about what ‘I don’t know what to say’ felt like to me and what he meant. We had conversations about conversations and learned what worked best for each of us. I learned that if I approached him to ask for him to do something I had to raise it simply and give a bit of time.
We had different communication styles and different emotional styles. He had to get better at hearing me and giving some verbal support, I had to change how I asked.
Like you I did all the mental load and being proactive so we had holidays etc. I learned to do the suggesting but then we split the planning. He got better at doing things (in his style) to take some pressure off me. I got better at letting some things go.
I did some online work on my self belief so I didn’t depend on him as much. He has got better at emotional support and has given me a great deal of practical support with a chronic health condition.
We are now at a different stage in life which probably has less family stressors so easier but it was worth the effort to work through it all.

I could be your husband OP, and yes, I can feel it getting worse as I'm getting older.

My problem is that I have to think through everything before I say it. Unlike DP, who can have an entire conversation come out her mouth without it passing through her mind. Which sounds bad, but I don't mean she's thick, or that she hasn't thought about what she's saying. It's passed through her brain, but not her mind if you know what I mean.

When I want to say something, I literally have to hear it in my head before I'll say it, and some times it goes through multiple passes, refining it, before it comes out of my mouth. As a result, I usually say exactly what I mean, and like your husband in his meetings, it has impact because I don't say much, and when I do say something it's usually fairly clear.

Whereas DP just says it, doesn't do the "writers pass" as it were. Means she can interject quickly, tell a long run on stream of conscious story, and generally just be a lot chattier than I'm capable of. The trade-off is that sometimes words get muddled, or she has to clarify a point.

The problem for me is that literally everything gets that "writers pass". As I'm walking into the office in the morning I'm wondering am I going with "Hello", "Hey", "Morning", maybe a "Yo", or possibly a "Fucking hell its minging out there", and then I'm working out the follow up conversation before it's even happening.

And then the other problem is that I'm getting older. My brain is getting noticeably slower. So that writers pass is taking longer, and its slightly more likely the moment has passed by the time I'm ready to say it. So to give your canal path example @YerWot , I've already cycled past the bloke coming the other way by the time I've worked out what I'm going to say to him. And I'm only in my mid 40s. What the hell am I going to be like when I'm 60, 80?

I'd love to be like DP, to sacrifice clarity in favour of actually just saying the damn words. But I can't do it. I've tried, I took an improv class in the hope that it'd help. I can sight read music, and just play what I see without it ever passing through my mind, but I'm fucked if I can do it with speech. My brain just isn't wired that way.

Sidenote: Reading is weirdly the opposite. DP hears everything she reads in her head, whereas it just enters my brain without ever going through my "minds ear" as it were.

This is who he is.
He won't change.
His lack of care for your basic safety is a whole other level that is not normal.
Quiet is one thing, lack of care another.
That is selfishness and you would be wise to be careful.

Such men make awful partners/fathers later in life as they care primarily for themselves and their comfort.
They do not make good carers, so don't get sick!!

Get therapy.
Invest in friends and relationships away from him.
Build a solid network of people whom you can rely on, as he won't be there.

It is surprisingly common in older women and the ones I know who remained married have ruthlessly built a separate life to them and left them to themselves.

They holiday with friends, hobbies, tennis, days out etc.

Men like this are tolerated by their children as they age, but it is their mother whom provides the real emotional connection to them.

Thank you for your thoughts.

@Arrivederla - "emotionally unavailable" and the comment about loneliness clicked something for me - I realised that I need to stop expecting him to read my mind. When he came downstairs this morning I explained I just wanted some sympathy because of not sleeping well and other peri symptoms (currently sore gums - what fresh hell is this?! I want my money back!). He was lovely! Things felt much better immediately. 😊

@ViragoHandshake - thank you for defending me from an unkind poster. I was feeling so fragile and your posts made it much easier to go to work this morning. I didn't know that therapists could deal with one issue and not another - I had a counsellor once and it was just endlessly awful. I assumed they were all like that. 🙄

@eatreadsleeprepeat - that's a perfect blueprint of what to do. I like a plan! That conversation about a conversation is spot on - at the moment, he'd just clam up if I tried to ask that. So you're right about small steps; I'll start with being clearer about tiny little things I need (e.g., I didn't sleep, please give me some sympathy!). And then eventually that'll lead to the conversation about the conversation. Thank you so much.

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots haha, yes, you have got my husband's thought processes to a T! Suspicious. Fish and chips okay for tea tonight?

I know he doesn't mean to be hurtful, so I'm trying not to be hurt by it. I expect it helps your partner a lot that you understand yourself and are able to express it.

@Hoipers yes, I can see that coming. But I think with @eatreadsleeprepeat's plan, we'll get somewhere. We are both looking forward to more time together as the kids get older; we are a good team, this just feels like a bit of a dip caused by work and children stress (as well as perimenopause symptoms stress). The stressful adult child has come as a bit of a surprise, we were both expecting a bit of calm from this child and got a rude awakening. The stressful work (for both of us) was predicted, but has been dragging on for longer than anticipated. You're right though that I need to work on my friendships; I'm not very good at that and will take that on board.

Very much appreciate the kind and thoughtful input on this thread. I'm going to take a leaf out of my husband's book and go quiet here to give myself time to think about what you've all said. Thank you.

Haha, I'm on chicken pomodoro, so can't be your husband!

I was the only one saying you shouldn't leave your husband lol

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots So interesting to hear your thought process and the use of the 'writers pass' before speaking. Fascinating and a very clear explanation. I'm more like your wife but this just shows we are all different!
@YerWot Good luck, you've had some excellent advice here, do hope it helps.