LTB years ago, but demoralized about coparenting after divorce

[findingjoy22]

Here on mumsnet, we often tell women just to LTB. Well, I did just that. Fed up with him not working, not doing housework, and just playing video games and smoking weed all the time, I left my DH five years ago when my kids were 2 and 3. I know have a DD7 and DS9.

I have tried everything to coparent, parallel parent, without conflict. I have paid for us to do family mediation. I have a therapist to helps me with boundries and communication with my ex. I have a lawyer who consults with me on the strategy in how to stick to the parenting plan (he endlessly trying to negotiate).

I am very careful about protecting my kids time with their dad. I never interfere on their time, plan around his parenting time, I am even carrying on living in a foreign country in a neighborhood close to him so he can carry on his relationship with the kids!

There are a lot of good things that have happened in my life after the divorce that i am proud of: I bought a house on my own with a mortgage, i have met my partner who is kind and caring. He is a divorced father and he lives in his own house. We see each other and enjoy each other's company and have been together for three years now. I have a job that i love and that is fufilling.

Yet the acrimony and the level of conflict with my children's father is a heavy load to carry five years out of the divorce. He is constantly being a obstacle to even the smallest logistical aspects of joint parenting.

He still acts as if we are at "war" even if we are not and there is no court battle.
Now five years out, he has stopped paying child support. Skips contact time with the kids (and reguarly accuses me somehow oddly of keeping him from the kids which makes no sense!). He does not contribute to medical bills or activities. So basically now we are at no financial suport.

On a recent weekend, he decieded to tell the kids the "truth" about the divorce, of course which was what I terrible person that i am that is so mean and cruel and that i keep the kids from him. "Mum just does not want to talk to me." (Side note, i do communicate with him but i try to keep everything child related an in-writing so it is less conflictual and everythign is clear and recorded).

My daughter, 7, is now angry at me for decieding to divorce, angry that it is not fair to her father, that everything is all my fault.

I have LTB, done the healing journey, found the joy in life, poured into my kids and it still so hard and tiring.

I just need a hand hold or someone avise me how to be more optimistic about this...

That sounds horrible, I'm so sorry. I will never understand these men who are so committed to trying to ruin the lives of their children's mother. I don't have any useful advice, just sympathy.

I imagine his abuse would be a lot worse had you stayed with him (that's what he is, abusive).

It is OK to tell your children the age appropriate truth about what happened.

You can say to your daughter:

"That's not true, I don't like to talk to Daddy face to face because he is sometimes mean to me and that's not OK. I talk to Daddy via text instead. What Daddy said isn't right."

"That's not true. I have stayed living here close to Daddy so that he can see you. What Daddy said isn't right."

And so on...

I would focus your time, effort and resources on family therapy for you and your kids (not including their dad). It is very, very common for abusive parents to behave like this (my friend's ex complains to all and sundry about how "she won't let" him see the kids, we all know it's bollocks, he just can't be bothered).

So my advice, forget about him and what he's doing, focus on yourself and your kids. In the long run they'll see the truth but in the meantime they will have a massive psychological pressure to feel sorry for him (and blame you). There are probably loads of books on this but if you can afford family therapy I'd definitely pursue it. What he's doing now is a continuation of his abuse of you all.

The abuse was not going to stop becuase you ended the relationship unfortunately.

I think the key thing here is to be honest, but appropriate, with your DC.

"Dad's view and mine are different. You were too young but we were very unhappy."

"YOu know that I'm always happy for you to see Dad. I would never stop him from seeing you but if he doesn't turn up to collect you when he says he would, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do."

"It's your weekend with dad next weekend." then, when he doesn't turn up, "I'm sorry he hasn't turned up."

"It's true that I don't like to talk to dad for no reason, but of course I talk to him about you and what you need and are doing. I'm always sending him messages or emails to let him know you've done x or have plans for the weekend."

The finances I would say are probably NOT appropriate to talk about at all when they are this age, but if they tell you that their Dad said you spend the money on hair cuts or something and that's why he's not giving it to you any more you can reply with, "Aaah, I wish it was so much money that we could pay for all the things you guys need, with money leftover for hair cuts. But that's not the case."

As they get older, your responses might change there.

I can’t believe you still don’t rejoice daily that you’re not with him and he now has very limited contact with your children!!

This may not be advisable but I'd be sorely tempted to read the riot act to him. Write to him and say that this is parental alienation, that he's not paying maintenance and if he continues like this then you'll head straight back to court and what's more you'll be spelling out your side of the story to the kids too. Including the bit about him not paying for them.
So his choice if he wants to go down this road but he may not like the consequences

Honestly, I could have written this exact same post - except I am four years out, I have a DC who is now 13,and my ex does pay. The post-separation abuse is identical and, the ranting/raving to the DC too is just unpardonable but happens.

First of all, all this should just underscore what a good decision you made to LTB!

And then, it gets better with clear boundaries, limited interaction (through a co-parenting app), sticking to the legal agreement without fail, making choices prioritizing your children/your needs (and not your view of what he needs to be a good father) and lots of therapy/yoga/meditation, and trusting your children.

He might be talking nonsense to them right now, but you keep your responses minimal and child appropriate, and they will over time learn to value your child-centric approach and reasonableness, and see the reality for what it is.

Good luck, it does get better!

Yes, i do rejoice daily! i will continue do do it! He unfortunately has officially 30 per cent of time with the kids, and 70 per cent they are with me. He is always just "around" without being helpful. I have clear boundries about him not coming into my house but he is often there just to pop in and say "hi" when they get out of school since he does not work. Of course, popping round and saying "hi" whenever he feels like it at school pick up is not at all a useful thing for logistics. Basically, he does not really do anything usful but is somehow always there interfering and being an obstactle (like refusing to give his consent for speech therapy). Finally, after family mediation, i got him to consent to speech therapy for our son (of course, i have to pay fully for it). This is just an example how every little thing is an obstacle....

I remember this with a number of my schoolmates when we were all too young to understand, which is exactly what these fathers (as they all were in these cases) wanted.

Not a single one of them feels that way now. They look back and understand what was going on.

All very solid advice. Thank you i read your post multiple times and it made me feel better.

The main issue is that he spins the reasons he does not show up for his contact time (mom did not want to switch weekends with me) or other excuses where he goes off the grid and then expects me to just hand over the kids when he pops up again. He spins the narrative to the kids that i am not agreeable or flexible and do not accomodate his schedule.

This month he skipped a five days with the kids to go on a sailing trip and did not pay child support because the cat had alot of vet biills. I kid you not. And he is not even embaressed to put it in writing!

I do not know whether to laugh or cry, honestly.

His parents subsidize him entirely. He is 39 years old and fully financially dependent on his parents. They gave him a huge house to live in and monthly money, part of which is is supposed to give for child support.

This sounds a lot like exBIL.

Why does he need to give permission for speech therapy? If you want him to have speech therapy, and you are paying for it, and organising it during your conteact time, I don't see why he gets a say.

Popping in to say hi at school run - oh my god, it's like these men all have the same MO. See also turning up at bedtime and wanting DC to go for a dog walk with him / arriving at 6pm on a Friday night and being mad that DC are at a sleepover with a friend etc.

As long as you are 100% clear that this is NOT part of his 30% of the time he's supposed to have with the children, you have to let this one go. While, of course, as necessary, moving things along to get to an activity or to get home or whatever.

I assume that either he did not actually ask for you to swap time with him but just chose not to use his time OR that he did ask but you had a perfectly valid reason for declining? In which case, tell the children that: "Aaah, I'm afraid that's just not true - Daddy didn't suggest that you see him next weekend because he was away last weekend" or "He did ask and I'd have said yes but we already had plans."

Also, can ou tell his parents he's not paying child support? I know that will depend massively on a million factors, but one to consider?

I offered him a swap, but then he cancelled again on the wekend which was supposed to be the swap (he got sick) three hours before he was supposed to pick up the kids from school. Just to give you the idea of how difficult it is to even be flexible since he is so inconsistent.

He has to give his consent to speech therapy since it is a medical thing and he has 50, 50 joint decision making power.

I completely agree with you about letting the popping by the school run go. It is nice for the kids to say hi to their dad on a regular basis. I just wanted to illustrate the fact that, he is always around or imposing his logic, but not holding up to the responsibilities that he has as a father like being there for his parenting time without excuses and also supporting financial. Of course, those aspects are invisible to the children, and are the sacrifices of parenting that do not get much recognition.

I appreciate all the support and advice i am getting here. I feel less alone already.

I'd also say just don't be flexible. Say to him, these are the arrangements and they cant be changed. Absolutely refuse access to your house. Awful behaviour from him.

I offered him a swap, but then he cancelled again on the wekend which was supposed to be the swap (he got sick) three hours before he was supposed to pick up the kids from school. Just to give you the idea of how difficult it is to even be flexible since he is so inconsistent.

I do hate these men! I'd reiterate, just calmly tell DC that. You can't change HIM but you can be clear in your communiation with your DC about what really happened, "Aah, dont' you remember? Daddy was going to have you last weekend instead of the weeend he went sailing but then he got sick and said you couldn't come. Isn't it silly how he forgets things?"

exBIL has been complaining, since day 1, that he shouldn't have to "ask permission" to see his children. He also thinks that it's okay for him to disappear whenever he wants and then, I love this, to COMPLAIN about whatever arrangements SIL makes to cover for him in these situations. Eg if she asks me and DH to babysit because he's disappeared - he will meltdown about not me and DH not having his permission to look after their DC.

Re the speech therapy, you're in a different country and so I can't comment but for the record, I'd be inclined to just send him anyway. It doesn't feel the same as having an operation or whatever, but I appreciate that might not be an option with whatever arrangement you have.

I'm glad my previous message was helpful. These men are ten a penny, unfortunately!

Excellent news that the idiot put it in writing regarding refusing to pay maintenance. Take screenshots, forward to your close friend for safekeeping, make sure you have copies of messages like that. Ideally, print them and keep them on a dated diary as a record. Are his parents aware that you aren't getting the money for the children? Would they give it to you directly?

You absolutely do not need to ever allow your ex in YOUR home! I'd put a stop to that one immediately. It's no good trying to "keep the peace" with men like this, what he needs is firm boundaries. "Steve, I'm messaging you about the two of us setting some clearer boundaries for the children. It's disruptive for the them when you turn up at the house unannounced. I'd like to make it clear that from now on I will not be giving you permission to enter my home. Please don't come over unless invited by me; if you do I will not be allowing you in."

Put a chain on the door that the children can't reach, if he turns up tell him to go away or you'll call the police and tell them that your ex has turned up without warning and you don't want him in your home. If necessary, do that. Do you have a video doorbell?

It will be much better for you and your children not to have him in your home. It's very reasonable not to allow your ex into your home. If he creates a scene that's on him. You can tell the children, "This is our home. Daddy has been behaving badly towards me, so I don't have to have him in my house. Daddy is not allowed to bully people into doing what he wants, or to throw tantrums to get his own way."

Similarly, it's not unreasonable of you not to drop everything on a whim to accommodate his holidays. "Daddy has chosen to go sailing this week. It's a shame he is unreliable. Daddy can't tell us to never make any plans in case he decides he wants to see you at another time. The dates are organised a long way in advance so that Daddy and I can both plan around them. Daddy needs to be more organised."

I misunderstood and thought he wasnt allowed in your house. Completely agree with @SaltyCara that if he's coming in, put a stop to that. And tell the children that Daddy isn't nice to you so he's not coming into your safe space but if he wants to take them out and they don't have other things on, that's fine.

they're getting close to the age where they'll also see the reality because as soon as they get a phone, they'll text him or call him and he won't reply or they'll make plans with him directly and he'll let them down. BIl can't work out why his DC aren't always super happy to see him - but he regularly ignores their messages or requests to do things, or says really aggressive/inappropriate things to them on text.

Stop letting him in to your home after school just for a start

Hi everyone, thanks for all the comments and advice.

to be clear, I do NOT let him in my house and never have. He shows up in front of school. however he is always guilt tripping me abour it and the kids ask why he cannot see inside our house.

I will hold that line!

he is always just "around" without being helpful. I have clear boundries about him not coming into my house but he is often there just to pop in and say "hi" when they get out of school since he does not work.

So you do let him in

you need to explain to the children what divorce means. They certainly won’t be the only ones in their classes! And that this is your home with them. He has his own home with them.

Did he work when you were together?

I mean pop by the school, not pop by my house. Thank god for that!

good point about being clear about the two houses.