Can I be a good mum to 4?

[DoubtsAndConfusion]

Please go very gently with me, I’m really struggling.

I feel like I’ve made some terrible mistakes. My first DH and I married at 21 and had two beautiful children who we continued to prioritise through a divorce when we were 30. He felt a lot of guilt for the choices he made to end the marriage, has been a lovely father having them 40% of the time, he has not found a partner since. We are now 36, DC are 13 and 11yo.

I, however, have met a married a new man and had a child, 20 months. After my 20 month old I felt done having children. I felt at capacity and she was such a hard work baby. My DH wasn’t done at all and desperate for one more. He made a good case for it being right for the 20 month old (otherwise she’d be sort of an only child with older siblings who have each other) and so I went for it

My eldest has recently turned 13 and changed a lot in the last year. I adore him and feel devastated that, last night, he shared that he hates living with toddlers. He is considering spending more time at his dad’s. His dad is lovely and funny, coaches his rugby team and skateboards and games with him. His dad is also a little softer, only serves food he likes, never asks him to do anything he won’t enjoy. This may be a temporary teenage whim but it has hit me so so hard

I am now 9 weeks pregnant with a baby I wasn’t desperate to have. I feel that if I terminate, it may end my relationship at some point with my husband. He is a lovely lovely man and I can definitely understand his feelings around it all. However, I feel so responsible for the children I already have over an abstract baby or a man I chose. I fear I may lose my older children if I have another baby and fill the house with more toddler chaos

I truly adore and want to prioritise the children I have. In this moment, if I could go back I would just dedicate myself to my two older children. However, I now have three lovely children to consider as well as my husband and the one I am growing

I feel at a loss and that I have made terrible choices which felt right at the time

I’m that 20 month old child, an only child in a large family. The older 5 were all friends, they did loads and reminisce together. I was left behind all the time. I hated it.

I would have the baby, a sibling for your current baby, but that’s me.

And you’ve not made “terrible”
choices, you’ve made a choice.

Your son may live a little longer with your ex, but that’s also fine. You have raised him to be able to speak his mind, to br able to talk to you….. you’ve done well.

Sounds like you are an amazing mum already, so of course you will be!

Does your ex husband live nearby? Sounds like your older 2 have 2 wonderful role models. Just because your son said it, doesn't really mean that he will do it.

Just keep doing what you're doing.

Thank you so much @Nevernonono, you’ve been very kind. It’s really helpful to have your perspective as my youngest. My eldest is a sensitive soul and we have been so emotionally close over the years. I really felt for him and the impact of the choices I’ve made. He’s such a great young man

Yes, exDH lives nearby and we operate as three parents with a shared WhatsApp group, lots of time in each others’ houses and he is ‘uncle’ to my youngest who also adores him

It sounds like you’re not sure if you want to continue with the pregnancy? Or is the plan that you will continue but you’re not sure how you will manage 4 children at very different life stages?

My first thought is that teens often pull away a little, including spending more time with the other parent if parents are split. Particularly boys and dads. It isn’t necessarily to do with the toddler, and anyway you can’t change the fact you have your 3rd, regardless of having a 4th or not. So I wouldn’t make any pregnancy decisions based on what your 13 yo has said, it’s not like he will come running back if you terminate.

However what is more important is that YOU don’t seem to want a 4th baby. You said you felt done at 3 and at capacity. It sounds like you got persuaded by new DH but it still isn’t what you really want. Maybe you are seeing what your DS said as a justification for termination? If so my response would be that you don’t need a justification. You not wanting a 4th child is a good enough reason.

You’re right that it would be very difficult for your relationship with DH if you terminate, he obviously wants a 2nd. But it will also be difficult for your relationship if you go ahead and have a 4th child you don’t want. And it might also affect your relationship with your eldest two. Only you can tell which is the “worst” outcome here.

I’m sorry there isn’t any easy answer here.

You are your ex are an absolute credit to your children, well done on your parenting.

All too often, there is so much anger and lack of communication with parents that are separated.

Your son will be fine.

You’re exactly right, the conversation amplified feelings I already held

I have spoken to DH about this and he was often diverting to talking about the older DC and how we could support them better but I did keep bringing it back to me, not being sure for me. It was a very honest conversation and there’s no easy answer

At the time I got pregnant, I had decided during the two week wait that I was going to talk to him about pausing trying. I then got pregnant and felt happy so went with it. I think I already feel like my doubts are more settled from this thread

Ok. I think you need to take a day or two and figure out what you want, but you really need to be sure this time.

Can you have a very open conversation with DH and say you are thinking about termination because you don’t feel like you want or can manage a 4th child - regardless of the older 2 - it’s not what you want. See what his reaction is - obviously he won’t be happy about it but his reaction will tell you quite a lot.

Did you have conversations with your DH about further DC when you got married?

OMG OP you are absolutely doing a fantastic job- just read this post back to yourself...

I don't know what the "right" and "wrong" answer is to your actual question but you seem to have the important things sussed so I have no doubt in the long run all will be well

Yes, we said two more when we got married. I was very open about considering termination this morning. We talked it all through and he was kind and empathetic but also open about finding it a scary conversation and being unsure how he would feel now, in 5 years and 10 years if it happened. He also apologised for wanting to have more even though I told him I felt done. I was on the fence though and actively participated in TTC so he has little to apologise for. I should have spoken up for myself more if I truly felt done and I’m not sure that I did. I will take a couple of days to feel all of my feelings because it may all pass

I think the conversation with my eldest amplified all of my doubts and I felt like a terrible mother for having more children and the impact it has had on him. I think letting go of the idea I would be losing my eldest and being a big enough person to realise that his dad is a wonderful parent with whom he has a great connection has been important as well. Why shouldn’t he want to spend more time with his dad, he’s great. I just need to allow some self kindness that it doesn’t mean I am deficient or have destroyed our relationship with my life choices

DH also asked what felt different about raising toddlers this time vs. last time and was thinking about practical solutions to improve my/ his capacity like dropping hours at work more (for both of us). Also other solutions to ensure all children felt loved, invested in and like they had enough space, like a teen hangout garden room away from the toddlers

Well you’re pregnant now so unless you’re open to termination, that’s that and you can’t undo what’s done. Unless you grew up in a messy family with steps/half siblings, you can’t really understand what it’s like - it really is like being forced to live with strangers. My ex was the oldest of 5 (younger siblings all with different dads) and upon hearing about his mum being pregnant with his youngest sibling he threw the glass he was holding and smashed it. He wasn’t a violent man but said he just felt so frustrated at yet more broken sleep, mess and a sibling so young he had nothing in common with but knew he would be expected to have some kind of relationship with.

Nobody would choose it for themselves. If you wanted to prioritise your older children you should have stopped after number 2. I know somebody recently divorced with 2 older primary aged kids, he’s now dating a new woman who is desperate for a baby and I just think ‘oh God no’.

You have a fabulous set up. I want to join your family!

These are exactly my thoughts and where my self-hatred is coming from. I would never have ended my first marriage but you can’t stop someone else from doing so, all I could do was ensure it was the most loving separation possible for the children. In this moment, if I could go back, I would dedicate my 30s to raising my children and be single.

I grew up in the messiest divorce I’ve ever known with DV, stalking and an alcohol/ personality disordered mum. My dad couldn’t care less that we were living in that scenario. I’ve had two step-mums and a step-dad and I have one full and three half-siblings. My experiences are all mixed bag but my mum and her behaviour had the largest impact over any other aspect

Well that sounds like a really great response from your DH so props to him for that. Especially as you had said 2 more when you got married.

I agree that your eldest being with his dad more isn’t a negative, it doesn’t mean you’ve messed up, it’s a reflection of a good relationship there. Although taking steps to make sure your home isn’t too toddler dominated and you have time for your older 2 is definitely a good idea as well.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want. Take those couple of days.

No judgement at all for being divorced/single or getting remarried. Nobody can be expected to be lonely for decades, it’s just I do get a bit frustrated at this seemingly normalised view that every marriage and LTR needs a baby. Ultimately your existing children’s needs should have prevailed over your new spouse’s desire for a baby. This is all academic now though.

That’s really interesting because I had a step-dad who didn’t want children and I think there was a challenge living with an adult I didn’t choose who I knew would prefer I wasn’t there. I feel like staying single would have been the only option to prioritise them fully

As you say, I have made my choices and we all have to live with the impact