Is it possible to fall in love again with dh?

[genia]

Hi
I know this is similar to other threads (marital relationship after children) but just quickly - has anyone found that they appreciate their other half again after long periods of doubt? Dh and I are bickering a lot of the time and I find his continual criticisms irritating. We are stuck in a rut - would like to move abroad possibly but don't seem to have the impetus to do it. All I can see ahead is a life where we visit extended family on both sides (okay once you get there but not my preferred destination) and have the same arguments ad nauseam. You know when you know exactly how someone is going to react to what you say and all conversations seem to be the same - eg. dh does not think organic food is really organic and if he has told me this once he has told me it a million times. It's got to the point where I have a silly crush on a man I hardly ever see who lives across the road - the kind of crush you had when you were a teenager and were too scared to talk to people??
It definitely feels like we love ds (almost 14 months) much more than we love each other. I am co-sleeping with ds (dh snores so could not cope with all three of us being in the same bed) who still wakes up quite a lot so am always knackered etc... But it's not the lack of a physical life between us that I mind (I seem to have very little libido) but more the way he can be so critical... (though he does also have a loving side).
Anyway, is it possible to love again after love seems to have gone?

A resounding yes (at least in my experience). I've been married for 7 years, known my dh for 10 and have often notice that our relationship goes in phases of closeness and distance even before ds came along.

Maybe I just got lucky and found someone compatible in that way, or maybe that's how it works in most marriages... I just don't know.

I agree with you Georgina. How long do you intend co-sleeping for genia as I am sure that this may not now be helping your relationship?

You need to find time for each other again and not just for the baby. Maybe a grandparent could have the baby for a night or weekend so that you and your husband can do things together on your own. I have been with my DH for 10 years and married for 7 and you do go through stages.

Maybe he is finding the co-sleeping and lack of physical affection difficult and is showing it in the way he is responding to you.

Hi genia
My friend is going through something similar at the moment. Her husband constantly criticised the way she looked etc and she started going to the gym constantly. She has got her figure back and also caught the attention of someone else. There is a definite mutual attraction between the two of them and although she says they are friends, I know that their relationship has become more physical.
Her husband has had his suspicions that something is going on and she has denied this but told him she is not in love with him anymore.
Since then he has been bending over backwards to be nice to her and try and get things back to the way they were. He has told her that unless she falls back in love with him, their relationship doesn't have a future. She maintains that she can't switch her emotions on and off like that and that she doesn't know if she ever will love him again.
Personally, I think that all the time the other man is on the scene she won't fall back in love with him, no matter what he does.
All of that doesn't really help you though. From my own experience I would say that in the past my husband has irritated me so much, I have felt like I hated him. I have in fact left him before. However, after a huge row last year, we went to Relate (only 1 appointment) and things have really turned around since then. We now make an effort to discuss things more and try to do more things together as a couple. We have 3 young children and it can be stressful, but we are getting there.
So, I would say if like in my case there is no one else involved and you are just fed up, you probably could change things around. If someone else comes along though, like with my friend, I reckon things are a lot different.
Don't know if that helped or not, hope it did.

Another thing - I think the first year of ds was the biggest strain on our relationship we'd ever had. Nothing could have prepared us for how draining having a child was and how difficult suddenly having the balance of the family wrenched to make room for a third person. It was really hard work. It's only really been in the last three months or so that we've started getting in the swing of being a family in some ways and our relationship as a couple has improved tremendously as a result.

Not that I'm saying that the first year wasn't exciting and enjoyable getting to know our wonderful ds... but I don't think anyone can quite prepare you for the impact it has on your lives!!

(our ds is 20 mths - sorry forgot to mention in the post below)

Genia, I'd also agree with Georgina. I am always so grateful that the way things turned out dh and I had been together nearly 12 years and married for four before we had children. A young child, no matter how easy/"difficult", places such a strain on a relationship. There were times in the first year after ds1 was born when I really questioned to myself whether dh and I would still be together when ds was five. Lack of sleep, hormones, worries about money etc, can all drive a wedge between you. As can a man telling you the same tedious fact time and time and time again (my flashpoint is Institute of Advanced Motorists' driving tips as we bowl along...zzzz).
Have you told dh unambiguously how worried you are about the relationship? When we finally made ourselves discuss it, we both realised that fear of losing each other had made us both snappy, defensive and uncommunicative. We weren't directly discussing why we were unhappy. But this was a phase, keeping talking got us through it, and now ds1 is 3 we are happier and closer than we were before he was born, on every front. And we recently weathered a great family trauma together - I think the experience of having ds1 made us strong enough to do that.
I am a big fan of co-sleeping as it happens but not excluding dh from the bed that we still see as ours (with ds as our guest most nights). Some over the counter treatments might help with dh's snoring, as might a king-sized bed if you can afford one.
Maybe a night out with each other might help you break the ice and start discussing how you feel with dh. I know from experience starting this type of conversation is not easy but if you want the relationship to work, it is worth it.

Both my kids are older (4 and 9) so there is no issue with the effect the kids have had on our relationship - if anything they have held us together. I often feel 'out of love' with my dh and particularly so at the moment.I actually think he feels the same. We made the move abroad for a 2 year period - it's been 8 months and we go in peaks and troughs. Sex is good and regular as it has always been but I am not sure that we really love each other - we certainly care alot about each other but beyond a point it seems very superficial. We are civil to each other and hardly fight (because the last time we had a big argument it almost resulted in divorce!). Neither of us wants to rock the boat, each hoping that we fall back in love (or something).Maybe we are in love but are fed up with montony or maybe after a time this is what love becomes - please tell me it is'nt so. He is a very serious successful business type and I am a very outgoing, noisy, happy type - although also successful at my profession before we moved here. I am becoming resigned to the fact that at some point our paths will separate completely, unless a miracle happens before then!

My ds is now 3, and since he was born our marriage has definately been more difficult. Living with anyone else in the house adds strain to a relationship (look how many have problems when aged parents move in, a baby is even more demanding, no matter how much wanted).
The trouble is you change just as much as your dh does in these new circumstances. at 38, i had always had my career, well paid, but had promised myself that I would be a SAHM, which I made clear even before we tried for a baby. But I've found it hard to adjust to my new role, and dh worries about being sole breadwinner etc.
Other thing is he had your full attention at home before baby. Now he feels a bit pushed sideways, just as I feel sometimes that I come at the bottom of everyone's priorities, including my own.
I think we survive just because my Brother in law and partner sometimes have ds for a night so we have time to ourselves and I try to make a special dinner for us now and then to share after ds goes to bed (those are usually the nights he won't settle down ).
Don't give up. sometimes I feel I don't like my dh very much, but I know I still love him.

I'm sure it will get better, hope so
lol

Thanks everybody. I think it is probably true that the lack of physical closeness between us means that he is more critical than usual (though he has always been of a critical nature, the next minute he forgets what it was he was complaining about but I am still sulking). The thing is, while I do not want ds to grow up in a family where the parents criticise each other too much as I feel we do now, I also don't feel inclined to change the status quo. Don't quite know why. I don't feel attracted to dh at all at the moment, in arguments he will sometimes call me stupid or a cow and once he even called me a bitch and somehow it is difficult to forget these things. I'm not saying I am perfect and I think that this year I have been quite authoritarian about ds's care and he has resented that (this is getting better I think). I don't know how long ds and I are going to co-sleep. Dh doesn't want to take over the counter medicines for his snoring (before ds I used to wear earplugs but can't do that now) and also categorically refuses that I should have the right to nudge him in the night if he is snoring... so in this situation I don't see why I should compromise. Already spending half the night awake because of ds and then more of it awake because of dh. I think in some ways I am refusing to be second best which is how I feel when compared to ds - eg. when ds and I walk through the door after having been shopping or whatever, dh always greets ds effusively and I am behind him feeling like the employee. So as you can see, the resentments are numerous! There are moments of tenderness between us now and then and in many ways dh is a loyal person who tries hard, but our relationship is a long stretch from being all it could be. I just wish my stomach did flip-flops when I see him but it doesn't. We are SOOO familiar with each other and I think that saying "familiarity breeds contempt" has a certain ring of truth to it. How on earth are you supposed to be passionate in bed with someone about whom you know every detail of their medical complaints (eg. teeth, gums or whatever), see in every situation, who lets off wind (as men do) etc.... Anyway it's good to know that other people have been through highs and lows.

-h yes and he has just told me to "piss off" because I called him lazy so I definitely hate him at the moment. I really don't want us to be using this kind of language with each other but we seem to be wallowing down there with the uncouths. I went out with ds this afternoon while he went to the gym, but is annoyed about not being able to sit and watch tv because I want him to stay down here with ds while I run the bath upstairs. Anyway they are now playing because I am ignoring both of them. I just don't want ds, who is absolutely lovely and totally innocent, to grow up in an enviorenment where his parents are disrespectful to each other. Anyway, sorry to ramble on.

Genia-
sorry you feel so low.
in your Friday e-mail you said "I think in some ways I am refusing to be second best which is how I feel when compared to ds" and I know how you feel. My dh now Never comments on my appearance or that dinner is nice or anything, although he always used to, and when he comes in from work he always greets ds, but sometimes hardly says hello to me.
I think you need to do 2 things to start with.

1. Get yourself some time to do something for yourself. I know it can be difficult, but is there anyone who could have your son for an afternoon, evening or possibly even overnight? The trouble with motherhood is that it takes over whoever you were. get that back even for a short time every now and then. It doesn't have to be expensive, once when I felt very low my ds went to play at a friends house while I sat on the sofa watching an old movie eating chocolate. I felt better afterwards.
2. You have to talk to husband about how you feel (tactfully). Perhaps he doesn't know how much you are hurt by his comments, doesn't realise how critical he is being (sometimes they think we are criticising them when we're not). Try not to let it become another row, do it quietly and gently. Perhaps he's got problems at work or something making him treat you badly.

Finally, is it just dh making you unhappy (I know, it's enough)? firstly, sleep deprivation makes life seem impossible and soooo depressing. If ds still has afternoon naps make sure you have one too. I tried to use the time to get my housework done, but realised that a messy house was better than an exhausted mummy.
Otherwise is it your situation (you don't say if you are at home or working) I decided to be a SAHM, but know that if I had to make that decision again I would probably choose differently. I am currently trying to find some intellectually stimulating p/t work, but it's difficult.

Sorry if this seems like a lecture, just trying to pass on the benefit of my experience. HTH,
talk again if you want to.

LOL

Thank you easy. Re. the time alone, I do sometimes pop out for a couple of hours while dh stays with ds - also we are both now members of a gym so I should be able to get some time away like that. It's not really possible for longer than 2 max 3 hours because of ds's naps (one late morning and one early evening) and the fact that he still has breastmilk at these times (same goes for evening). I know sleep deprivation makes everything worse - also I think dh may be a little depressed re. his own things (eg. things he hasn't done in life yet, a general feeling of change being impossible) so that doesn't help. Yesterday we had a bit of a showdown where I said how annoyed I was about his constant criticisms and I think he really "heard" what I said but again today he has annoyed me (no doubt he would say the same about me)...
Maybe re. the "second best to baby" thing, this is how things become when there are children around? Maybe both parents take for granted that the other parent knows they are loved. I don't begrudge ds the attention at all as he is flourishing with all the affection he is getting, but then I see other couples where you see the man and woman still behaving like a couple despite their baby and I am a bit envious.
I do think it is hard being a SAHM mum which is what I am for the moment. I'm hoping to retrain this year as a reflexologist so that should change at some point. Staying at home is great (and I want ds to be with either dh or myself while he is so little) but it does make you feel a little dependent and trapped at times. That's when things like visiting extended family (especially in-laws) start to seem so onerous - I suppose if one had more of one's "own" life, these visits would just be blips in time instead of big things looming in the distance. I don't like being ds's invisible support crew which is a bit how I feel when we go there - after all it's not me they want to see... Is that a selfish way of looking at it? I think it's just important to also have things - friends etc... where you and not your baby or your husband, are the one that matters.
Thanks for writing back.
Eugeniaxx

I have been married 20 years & there are times I wonder what I ever saw in my dh. I think all relationships must work like this- you have some real lows that go on forever, then something changes & it's not so bad.
We found that going away on holiday on our own, without the children really helped. I know it isn't possible for you at the moment because your baby is too young, but we've been taking just one week's break a year for the last 8 years, usually off-season, just to be a couple. It seems to kickstart the relationship back to at least an even keel, if not hearts & flowers.
We started this after I had a brief fling with a boy at work, stupidly told dh after it was over, & both realised something was very wrong for it to have happened at all. Of course whenever we have a bad row he flings it in my face, even though it was 9 years ago, but that's the price you pay for playing away.
As I've got older I've realised that one person can't be everything to you. You just have to grit your teeth and ride out the bad times. Hopefully things will start looking up as the baby gets older. (We've got 4, 16-11)
Like the kingsize bed idea.. we bought a 6ft x 6ft 3 ins bed because we woke up with so many people squashed into our bed every morning.. so they stopped coming in!! Now we have 6ft between 2 (and he still sleeps on my side.. and snores.. grrr)

Genia - I really feel for you with the family visits, it can be very difficult. It may not be possible for you (obviously not at the moment whilst you are b/feeding) but I would think hard about encouraging your DH & children to visit his family without you sometimes (not always obviously) - makes everyone realise that you are not just a 'package' that goes everywhere together. I had the same problems with my family & DHs family - for example, my parents live in a beautiful part of the country, have a lovely,comfortable home - I just 'assumed' that DH enjoyed spending his holidays there - eventually he told me that he didn't want to keep going there (it's a 7 hour journey so you can't just go for lunch!!) twice a year, using up his holiday holiday ..... initially I was a bit upset but now make arrangements to go on my own with DS &, quite honestly,I enjoy the opportunity to spend time alone with my parents without 'worrying' about how DH fits in. Equally, although they live nearer, DH makes the odd visit to see his family (or old friends) alone with DS - they enjoy a great day out together and it gives me a break.

This is just my experience, it might not be applicable to you but it has certainly helped me & lessened the 'burden' of duty visits.

Personally, I would make an appointment for counselling. You seem stuck in a rut - he wants to sleep with you but won't try anything for his snoring etc etc (btw I can understand that, I can't imagine how anyone copes with a snoring partner. If my dh makes a noise in his sleep I always give him a sharp nudge & of course that's OK!) As a couple, you seem to have lost the art of compromise. Maybe in the meantime you might be able to change just one thing at a time by being very direct but uncritical. Maybe say that you love the way his eyes light up when he sees ds, but you would love it if he would say hello and kiss you first, before your son. I have never thought about this before, but dh always greets me first (though I suspect I always greet ds first!!) and it feels very nice. If he knew how much it meant to you he might be prepared to make this one change (esp if you ask as a favour, not a criticism). Also, are you perhaps delaying trying ending co-sleeping and breastfeeding to sleep at naptimes as well as well as at night in order to put some distance between yourself and your dh? It's just a thought. I really wanted us to sleep in the same bed again, sex or no sex, because it made me feel like half a couple, instead of just co-parents.

Sorry to hear that you are not happy in this relationship Genia. I have been together with dh for 5 years and there have been times when I think he is talks down at me, but I ignore it until I have calmed down. Then I tell him how I feel, then he realises how much it upsets me. He has learnt from a mate to say "Yes, dear". I suppose I feel quite lucky most of the time. Ds is co-sleeping with dh and me in a double bed, but it feels so tiny as ds sleeps with her arms out in a star shape taking up most of the bed! I cope with it, by letting ds falling alseep in our bed and then slowly move her into her cot. At least I get 3 or 4 hours of quality sleep, then I can spread my arms out, without the worry that I am about to crush ds in my sleep. A few hours makes all the difference to me. When I'm more well slept, I have a higher libido, than being knackered. So when ds wakes for her night feeds, when I would let her stay in our bed until we get out of bed. Dh also snores very loudly (so loudly that all our friends know about it!), so when I can't sleep because his snoring, I wake him and ask him to sleep on his side, which reduces the volume just long enough for me to fall asleep. I try to have dh sleeping in the same bed as us, otherwise it put distance between us, if he is shunned to another bed.
Back to the point, dh usually gives me a good-bye kiss before he goes to work and it makes all the difference, when he doesn't I feel moody for the whole day, until I get one when he comes back. You should try this out for the week and see if it helps with the bonding. Also try hugging each other everyday for no reason at all or give each other a kiss when dh doesn't expect it. I know it is a lot of physical contact that you don't want, but give it a go. If you still love your dh, then tell him everyday, if you are being adventurous, tell him several times a day, might be surprised by what happens, "You reap from what you sow".

Hope everthing works out.

P.S. What does ds and dh exactly stand for?
I'm not sure

Honeybunnie, Dear Son, Dear Husband don't ask me why!

Oh my god... another honeybunny!!!

Thanks again for your thoughts Honeybunnie, Aloha and Lindy and everybody else. Just "talking" about things here has already helped. Dh has always been what I would call somewhat difficult, but we are used to having more highs than we are having at the moment. All of your input is appreciated and is sinking in.
Eugenia