Couples therapy question

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Dh and I have just started couples therapy - had a few sessions. The therapist has given us an exercise to do separately and bring to the next session about what sort of relationship each wants/what sort of partner you want to be. This is fine, but I'm struggling with what the sheet says about it being a cop out to think, "If he was kinder, I would be more interested in having sex" (for example). The exercise is to focus on what you want to change about yourself, which I do get as that's the only person you can actually change.

The problem is that I do think that - that I would be more interested in sex/intimacy if he was around more/pulled his weight with the house and chidren/was nicer to me. Is that a cop out? Or will the therapist's question be, what you do you need from your partner to help you be the partner you want to be?

Disclaimer - I was sexually abused as a child (Dh knows about this) and lack of intimacy/sex is a big thing for him. I don't know if I'm feeling so freaked out by this because of the abuse.

Can anyone offer some perspective/experience on this? TIA

He needs to work that out for himself. (like most men) If she's good then having him self reflect and understand what he brings to the relationship and why he doesn't get more sex/stroke intimacy.
If he has a ah ah moment then you should see a change in him.
Fingers x for you OP

just from what you said I would have thought seperate trauma specific therapy for you may be useful as well as the couples therapy. This may have happened already.

Thanks both. Yes, have had therapy for various traumas individually. I think you're right about the purpose being self-reflection and 'what do I need to do to receive what I need?'

Do you realise that this might be the point of the exercise?

To get you to realise that you've changed too much and bent over backwards too much and actually you CANT change you to fix him.

What do you mean 'if he was nicer to me'. Honey, the bare minimum a partner needs to be is kind. You can't work on anything with a man who...sorry, but...doesn't even like you.

You cannot change you to fix him.

I think you can turn it around so that you say 'I want to be the kind of partner who know she deserves respect and kindness, who responds enthusiastically to consideration and is confidently resistant to being treated like a doormat or put down.

How about that sort of thing? If you truly believed that, you might change your behaviour. I started by never doing DH's laundry, or running myself ragged when his family came to stay while he was the genial host on the sofa all day long. I stopped responding at all if he spoke to me in dismissive ways. I also stopped treating him like a God for just doing what women do all day everyday like taking DC to the park or doing the weekly shop. I just behaved towards him the way he behaved towards me when I did my share. If he asked what was wrong because he wasn't getting praised 50 times a day I'd initiate a very calm and friendly chat about me not getting gold stars every time I picked up a tea towel and that we could either both be extremely appreciative of each other or both assume this is unnewsworthy behaviour but it's an unhealthy balance if one person gets sky high praise for pulling their weight and the other gets ignored.

Honestly it's a sad fact that the world is filled with lots of lovely women who are bending over backwards for sub par men. He doesn't pull his weight in the home or with his kids, he is never around and even though he is useless and knows about your trauma he is pushing you for intimacy (which he has done nothing to foster the desire for).

He's a loser! A l.o.s.e.r. With a capital L.

Do yourself a favour and stop making your needs small. Stop bending yourself and twisting yourself to try make this guy happy when he would never do that for you.

I think unfortunately when we come from abuse, we are more inclined to accept bare minimum partners. Time to address this issue before your children grow up thinking this is what a normal household looks like. And what we should tolerate in partners.

Perfectly ok to separate and co parent. If he has to do that then at least he might have to do his share of childcare. And you won't have to run around after him anymore.

Carry on with individual therapy. A conversation about codependency may be useful. But honey, it's not 1950 anymore. You can leave. And you most probably should. Women are not rehab for damaged men.

Have you had EMDR?

Couples therapist here

One of the reasons for this exercise is to stop viewing the relationship as transactional:.
If you do A for me, I will give you B.

The reason that this doesn't work, is because these set-ups lead to:
I did A for you, so now you owe me B.
You can't say no to B, because I did A, just like you asked.

You think that's what you need. It's not.
You don't need your partner to do chores, because he knows that if he does them it will lead to sex. Trust me. If your partner starts doing that and starts expecting sex as a reward, you'll be just as turned off as you were before. Do you know who gets rewarded for being good? Dogs. Not husbands.
Transactional relationships are not the answer to more structural, more existential relationship problems.

Do you know what leads to more sex?
Mutual respect. Feeling like someone cares about your well-being. Knowing that your partner cares about you as a person, and not as a means to have their own needs fulfilled.

None of these things can be written down on a check-list. They are not tasks and chores. Do you know when I feel turned on by my husband? It's not when he does the dishes because I told him he needs to do the dishes. It's when he tells me: "hey, you seem a bit stressed tonight. Let's leave the dishes for what they are. Do you need me to handle dinner and the kids on my own tonight? Why don't you take a bath of read a book or go for a run."
It's about being seen. Being valued. Knowing that your partner cares about how you feel.

Now, in order for your relationship to stop being transactional, you need to be willing to stop seeing the transactions and dig deeper.
You don't want a relationship where all household tasks are divided 50/50. Sure, that sounds nice. It's not. It's inflexible and rigid and doesn't take into account what each person has to offer. What you do want is a home where both partners respect and value each other. And sometimes you're not feeling valued for certain reasons, but your partner also isn't feeling valued for certain reasons.

Only when you come to a shared understanding of where you're both undervalued, and you both want to take the responsibility of valuing the other unconditionally - not transactionally - can you grow as a couple.

Your examples are framed in terms of what you want a partner to do (be nice, share the workload etc). It reads like you’re already trying to find solutions. I think the exercise is asking you to express your needs for yourself, the type of relationship you want, then these can be talking points in the session, and solutions explored together.

Examples -

I want to be in an intimate partnership.

I want to be in a relationship where responsibilities are equally shared.

I want to be part of a supportive family unit, where kindness comes first.

I want to be complimented by my partner.

I want to go on dates with my partner.

I want to go on fun family days out with my partner and children.

(disclaimer - I’m not a therapist and I’ve been single for years so I might be wrong 😅 x)

Thanks, all. I do get the point that good relationships aren't transactional - they're based on each person valuing the other. However, the dishes still need to be done, the meals cooked, the children sorted out. Me quietly doing all that for many years hasn't resulted in my dh valuing me, just feeling undervalued by me as in all honesty I haven't had much left over after work, running the home, caring for elderly relatives (no longer, as she passed away) and looking after the children. I'm exhausted - I brought this up in therapy and neither he nor the therapist were particularly interested in that fact tbh.

Maybe I've made my own problems by just quietly stepping in and doing it all, rather than saying 'you seem really tired, have a rest and let me cook tonight'. It's been more me just getting on with eg cooking while he rests without either of us acknowleding that's what's happening.

No, I haven't had EMDR, I've had psychodynamic therapy on and off for over 20 years. I've got my traumas into a place where I can live alongside them and they don't take over my life, which is as good as it gets, I think.

You should absolutely make a point of demanding a more equal division of labour. And this isn't something that should be ignored by your therapist.

However, what I tried to point out earlier is that an unfair division of labour is always a superficial symptom of deeper issues. That doesn't just happen. And fixing the behaviour on the surface doesn't fix the underlying issues. It will just reappear elsewhere.
As long as you're addressing the issues on the surface by making a point about the household labour, you won't be tackling the real problems.
Tackling the real problems however, will result in the superficial problems going away on their own or becoming much less of an area of conflict.

So for example:
If you have a relationship that isn't built on mutual respect and genuine care for one another, then you can try to fix that by making chore lists and dividing chores 50/50. However, you'll still have a lack of mutual respect and genuine care for one another. He may do more around the house. But the lack of respect and care will show itself some other way, in some other behaviour.
You can not win when you're fixating on the surface.

And getting to that deeper level in therapy takes a lot of vulnerability and willingness to see where you're not being your best self. It's humbling and leads to a lot of shame and regret. It's incredibly hard and confronting.
Imagine having to do that, yet having a partner who insists that everything's your fault and you're the only one who needs to change.
Let me tell you what happens when those two people go to counselling. Counseling fails and people get divorced.

Whenever I work with a new couple I give them a choice.
You can be right.
Or you can connect in a meaningful way with your partner.
Which one matters more to you?

Thank you Girlmom35 that makes a lot of sense. I do feel deeply ashamed about something that I did over 15 years ago (not an affair) that deeply traumatised my dh. I have been trying to make amends since then, and have realised since we started therapy that he still feels very angry and resentful towards me about it and that he doesn't want to let go of those feelings, possibly because in his mind they allow him to behave how he wants to and maintain a victim self-perception (not just about this, about lots of things in his life).

Which is ultimately his choice, I guess. I cannot force him to forgive me nor can I force him to recognise all the kindness, support and care that I have given him over the years.

Or guilt trip you into those things. Perhaps you should let go of him.

Sorry op but he just sounds worse with every post.

Why stay with someone who has held a grudge for fifteen years? And who you even remotely think is the sort of person (sounds like he absolutely is btw) who would use it to treat you shitily. If you hold yourself accountable for things in life and seek therapy for growth, why do you not hold him to the same standard?

Why, rather than him realising he was mad at you and seeking out therapy for himself did he decide it was ok to be horrible for 15 years instead? And you can't say he does it without being conscious of it. Because that's bs
And we all know it. He does it because he needs any excuse to treat you like shit. Because he WANTS to. And you know this!

What you need to do is stop sweeping that knowing under the carpet. Abusers train us to always make excuses for them. And then we go on that way for every other...sorry but, shitbag, who gets close to us. They use our mistakes against us to make us feel guilty, to tell therapists we are the bad guy, to excuse their continued rotten behaviour. And they prey upon the fact that because we are good and love people close to us, we assume other people are the same. He is not the same as you. He doesn't want good and joy and health and happiness for you. He wants you sad, stressed and exhausted. He wants you punished. That's not a partner, it's a jailor.

You have to remember (some) couples therapist may want to keep you together longer as it PAYS them. That doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you.

I'd consult your individual therapist and talk with them about the situation. I'm sure they would focus on building up your confidence so that you no longer accept shaudy treatment and find it easier to see it for what it is.

You don't need to spend your life tied to someone who doesn't like you. Certainly not out of guilt for some old mistake. Or to benefit kids if they are involved (because it doesn't do that, it just shows them relationships should look crap). You can absolutely leave, survive and thrive.

And if you are afraid to because he will make it difficult, remember that the comparison could be another, what, 30 years of things the way they are now. Only worse because..they always get worse.