Staying strong - refusing to see SIL/MIL when exBIL is there

[MsMarch]

I don't really neeed advice so much as an opportunity to vent. exBIL is a truly awful person who has behaved appallingly to everyone, with, obviously SIL taking the brunt of it and their DC suffering as a result too. MIL lives with SIL and her DC.

After exBIL had been absent for a long time, he has recently reappeared. Because SIL cannot accept that he is a truly awful person - she chalks all of his behaviours up to poor mental health and so hates the behaviours but is constantly justifying/excusing them - she doesn't put any boundaries in place and he is allowed to spend time with their DC at her house as his house is, apparently, "not suitable" and for whatever reason, god forbid he should take them out anywhere.

We do not allow our DC to be around him. She had previously accepted this when he was being very aggressive and borderline violent in the past. But now he's back, and while he's as unpleasant and volatile as ever, he's not (yet) being violent or aggressive to that level, so in her head, it's fine for him to be around all the children. We do not feel that way and see his behaviours as harmful. I worry about their children too, but obviously, there is nothign I can do about that.

But we're starting to get pressure. Hints that we're being unreasonable. That if we don't go over there more, MIL is the one who suffers (she won't come to ours as she's disabled and our house is not set up for her and sadly, can't be). Also that we're not being supportive enough of exBIL and his struggles (WTAF?)

It's coming to a head now as we start school again as the DC are old enough to walk over to hers after school and would usually do that regularly. But neither of them want to do it when he is there. DS is older and not scared to stand up for himself which actually worries me MORE because exBIL has form for turning very aggressive on anyone he perceives as beneath him who dares to question him (women, children, and, I suspect, anyone who isn't a white British man. I told you, he's very unpleasant). DD just hates being in his presence.

I'm not going to change anything. I'm going to accept being the bad guy. I know it's going to cause tension between me and DH because he agrees 100% (and is actually even more strict than I am on NC with exBIL) but he is also the one who feels the guilt and sadness with his sister and mother.

So just wanted to come here to scream in a virtual world!!!!! AAAARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

If he's that vile and that violent even in front of and to children I don't care how much of a bad guy it would make me I'd be calling social services.

Funny I came here with some criticisms and have totally accepted your viewpoint. Good plan.

Aaah, but it's "borderline violent".

One of the many reasons I don't subscribe to SIL's theory that it's all mental health issues blah blah blah is he is very good at JUST keeping to the side of things that mean police/social serviecs would not do much more than, at most, a quiet chat. He has also, on more than one occassion, managed to engineer things so that SHE is the one who looks like the crazy person who needs social services intervention.

Honestly, I could write a book about this man and how his behaviours are completely text book for this sort of narcissistic abuse. I have a depressingly accurate track record on MN threads of spotting behaviours I recognise and being able to extrapolate to the OP additional behaviours that I know are in place but that she hasn't mentioned in the thread originally.

Which is why i simply choose to have nothing to do with him and not to allow my children to do so either. I can't stop the rest of them getting sucked into his crap but I'm not going to.

If you still want to see MIL, but not BIL, could you perhaps take MIL to a local coffee shop one every couple of weeks?

In our family, once every couple of weeks is not how we roll. DD would usually be happy to hang out with MIL at least twice a week. DH pops in regularly. Even DS woudld swing by at least once a week for a bit.

For Dh it's less of a challenge as he often spends time with her at times the DC are all off doing other things anyway - including theirs. But it's more of an issue for the DC if he's there seeing HIS DC.

One solution I suspect will be for us to learn the schedule (if there is one) and for our DC just to plan to only pop round on the days he is NOT there. It's just that neither SIL nor exBIL are big on schedules and routine so it's hard to pin that down!

I think you have to have a chat with MIL and tell her that while your children love to see her, they just don't want to be around ex BIL (I assume he's still ex and just coming round to see the children) it's really up to MIL if she can set aside time for her grandchildren when he's not going to be there. You're not the bad guy and you know it so don't worry about what anyone else thinks. As a side note, is there nothing you can do in terms of adjustments to facilitate MIL visiting your house? It seems a shame that she can never come round for a meal or spend the day with you all 😔

Thanks for this.

There ARE things we can do to mke it manageable at ours. But she won't agree to them as she gets very stressed and anxious and basically won't do it. Every few months she girds her loins and comes over for a specific occasion. But its challenging.

Can you start a new family tradition with mil and your kids? Thursday costa treat after school every week or something?
You pick her up before school finishes and take her (if she needs help), kids meet you there after school.