Sometimes...

[unicorn]

I realy want to have a go at dh's parents.

It is his birthday today... they sent him.. a card.
no present( fair enough)- no call to wish him happy birthday etc.
FFS..!!!!!!!!!
They are his parents.

There is history here.. but nevertherless... I don't think you ever 'clock off' from being a parent.

That, however, seems to be the way dh's parents see it...

So sometimes I just want to ....

LET RIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and tell them how rubbish they are at being parents (and how they should have just gone sraight to owning dogs instead of having kids)

(phew, I nearly did.. but thank G for mn.. feel better now)

Unicorn,

This may come as cold comfort to you but you are by no means the only one.

I can relate entirely to what you say re your DH's parents as I have felt exactly the same over the past few years. I feel that my own parents have "opted out" for reasons only known to them. They both have a "don't want to unless it suits them" mentality. Another similarity is that they also have a completely different relationship with my brother - however, I think I know why. He comes across as "needy" and my parents are also "needy" too. I to them come across as "independent" and "therefore not needing of their help".

My DH (like you) is also highly annoyed at my parents behaviour over the years.

I gave up years ago asking them to babysit (got tired of their excuses)and now use a professional sitting company.

Can your DH bring himself to talk to his parents re their behaviour (although your protests may well fall on deaf ears as happened with me it is well worth trying) or if not them sound out his sister to see if she has any opinions re her brother's relationship with their parents.

IMO its their loss if they don't want to know but the emotional pain never fades away to nothing.

I wish you and your family well

Meerkats

I the first year after my dh was diagnosed with cancer his father contacted him.......three times. And topped it off by finishing one call, they day before dh has chaemotherapy, 'Have a nice day tomorrow'. FIL has cancer himself now and seems to expect the support of all those round him. Funny that. DH has since been diagnosed with a slow form of leukemia and hasn't bothered to tell his 'father'. I wonder why.....

this thread touches a nerve with me, too. no time to post now, but will come back to it.

How about this for insenstivity? After the funeral of Dh's loving mum his dad turned to the children (dh aged 23ish, his brother 20 and sis 17) and said "Well kids, that's your mum gone. Perhaps now would be a good time to stop calling me Dad. Call me x" Don't think my dh (now 53) has ever recovered from this (and other insensitive comments) - and he still doesn't know what to call his dad to his face!

I guess this thread just goes to show that parents comprise the same mix of good and bad that makes up society as a whole. Much as that explanation is logical, if you are the one with the inept parent, it can be hurtful for a lifetime, there is no denying it.

Oh Unicorn, I do feel for you. Would you believe it was my dh's birthday on the same day as your dh. My dh was 40. We had nothing from his parents since we do not speak any more. I did wonder if they would use his 40th as a tool to break the ice, but no.

I have arranged a surprise party for dh tomorrow evening. I thought long and hard about inviting his parents, even though the reason we don't speak is because they accused me of something despicable and refuse to take it back. For my dh I would have tried. But I knew he didn't want it, because he is so disgusted with them. As he goes through therapy, he is realising more and more that it wasn't just this one incident that came between them, but that they have been cold and critical all his life.

He says he is happy now because we are his family, and at last he feels loved and a sense of belonging. We try to make sure these external sadnesses always drive us closer together.

none of my dh's family including his parents bother to send him a birthday card, never mind a present.

his siblings I can get over, as they are totally selfish and worthless human beings anyway. But his mum I can't understand. They get on OK and she's always going on about wanting to see our children etc, and yet she doesn't even bother with a card for DH, or indeed our children.

some people are not worth bothering with, IMO

I take all your points and I feel that almost everyone could present a case for their parents being insensitive, manipulative, selfish etc etc, even toxic at times - but I genuinely believe that forgiveness is the answer. Therapy has been mentioned a lot in this thread - again I'm going to take the opposite view of many in that I don't believe that focusing on the self is the best way forward with these type of issues.

Cam, if only everyone was responsive to your method of dealing with things! We would all live happier ever after!

Unfortunately, like everything else, the badness of parents covers a wide range of grey. Even if I felt I could forgive my inlaws for accusing me of working in the sex industry, rubbishing our parenting, blatantly favouring their daughter over dh and treating my ds far better than they do dds, they still think we are in the wrong because we persist in denying their slander.

Counselling for my dh helps us but how can they ever be in the picture? What would I say? 'Oops, oh yes, of course you're right, I did appear in a few blue movies, so sorry I argued with you...'

I never said it was easy...........

It's interesting what you say about therapy Cam, my bereavement counsellor encouraged me to think about events in my mother's life which might have shaped her response to my stillbirth. One of the many positives I took away from my counselling sessions was the feeling I could move on from my searing hurt over her response, and if not totally forgive, then let go, with a better understanding of her psyche.
I was very grateful to my counsellor for that. Obviously I was not going to cut my mother out of my life, but I was finding dealing with her civilly very hard at that time.

Forgiveness should come at the conclusion of the emotional housecleaning, not at the beginning.

Forward says the most healing act is the confrontation of your toxic parents via constructive criticism in person, in a letter or symbolically and shows how.

She also says the healing comes not from your parents reactions (which is usually negative) but because it works. It works as you are facing your deepest fears, which is enough to begin to change the balance of power between you and your parents. She says what you don't hand back you pass on. If you don't deal with your fear, your guilt, and your anger at your parents, you're going to take it out on someone else. The alternative to confrontation is to live with these fears, to reinforce your feelings of helplessness and inadequacy and undermine your self-respect.

Forward says, "There's no such thing as a bad confrontation...no matter what happens during or after any confrontation, you come out a winner because you had the courage to do it...the fear that kept you trapped in your old role with them can no longer control you."

I think its possible (and preferable) to do that stuff without the confrontation bit.

I'd be interested as to how you do that though Cam.

I think if you can be objective and non emotional all credit to you, but it surely depends on the type of person you are, how you have been 'taught' to respond emotionally (by parents), and how affected you have been by these people.

Also what is so wrong with expressing anger?

Message withdrawn

My mother clocked off the second i hit 18. Tbh i don't really think she was ever clocked on, she always made it clear that i was a hinderance to her life, and one of her favourite things to say to me in an argument was "i resent you".

She wasn't the worlds worst mother, she just had other stuff planned for her, and wasn't afraid of letting me know it. Which hurts. And, if i'm honest, her lack of attention now still does. She sold the house and went round the world the second i hit 18, and i had to move out. She's not been back in england very much since, and her first response when i told her i was pregnant was "well don't think i'm putting my life on hold for it"
In fact she has actualy said "my parenting finished when you turned into an adult at 18"

Since having dd, i am even more convinced than ever that parenting doesn't stop. Your kids do get older and they do have there own lives, but you never stop being their mum or dad, and they/we never stop needing them. (I'm still only 23 btw)

unicorn, your dhs parents sound like my dhs parents.

They infuriate me. But from what I've heard they have never really clocked on as parents so I am not sure I should be surprised. Dh certainly isn't. They are not good grandparents either imo

And yet I do understand Cams point. As one gets older the relationship changes, they grow into their lives and ones own life becomes redefined.

thanks all.. this is really interesting.

Winnie, I think that you're probably right... once we, as a little family unit, are 'defined'/sorted/less anxious or whatever then my need for parents/in laws will become much, much less.

I just know that in recent times we have really need help, and what is the point of family if it can't even do that?

Totally agree cat82 (and big sympathies for your experience)... I hope that I will always be there for MY kids- particularly when they are older, and having a whole different set of problems.

unicorn, I completely sympathise with the needing help and knowing that ones families are simply not going to help even in a little way.

I hope I am never like that with my children.

unicorn - my inlaws are the same with dh sometimes. they dont ring him for weeks. however he is exactly the same with them so it may be his bringing up.

We were at their holiday home over here a few weeks ago and i saw MIl's calendar on the wall and noticed that she'd written in when she calls dh and when dh calls her etc. (also for other members of the family)! In addition, dh's birthday is on the calendar, as is mine and ds's but not dd's - felt very tempted to write it on myself.

There are some godawful parents around aren't there. Reading this makes me realise that mine aren't so bad. In fact they are pretty good, except my mum has this compulsion to say exactly what she's thinking without stopping to judge whether it will hurt anyone. I cringe at some of the things she's said to me, but it's just made me develop a harder skin and I tend to let most criticism bounce off me now. I know she loves her GSs to bits and since they were born we have had a pretty good relationship. I've come to appreciate that she's got a pretty full life of her own and the Women's Institute ties for first place in her affections with her GSs! (I am about no 5 in her list of priorities behind by brother and the garden). When I asked her to put my due date on the calendar when I was expecting DS2 (with a view to her looking after DS1 while I was having him) she took a look at the calendar and said "Oh I've got a regional committee meeting that day... still your Dad will be here, so that's OK." My dad is 80 and has Parkinson's!!

Cam,

I would agree with you re forgiveness but feel this should not come at the beginning.

So what is the best way forward with these types of issues?.

If you feel that focusing on self is not the way forward then what is?.

Also if you feel you cannot or should not confront them?. To my mind the alternative to confrontation of such parents is to live with these fears, to reinforce your feelings of helplessness and inadequacy and undermine your self-respect.

cat82, I really feel for you. If my parents had sold our home and left the country as soon as I was 18 years old, I don't know how I would have coped.

My mother and father were supportive practically and emotionally. I could tell them anything and if they could help me, they did.

My husband and his parents have such a different relationship. I can't categorise it as good or bad, but they seem far less close. The reason is on both sides - my dh presents them with a rosy, airbrushed picture of our lives and they accept it. Every now and again, they will ask me in passing if things are ok, how am I feeling, etc but how can I ever say 'no actually things are not 100% ok' as that would directly contradict my dh's version? Whenever I have tried to do this, it hasn't worked.

I know that this game has its roots years before I was on the scene. I think it must have contributed to my husband's low self esteem. As far as I can see, he never really opens up to them, so they can never value him for what he really is.

Even when they know things are bad, they are so reluctant to throw caution to the winds. To give an example, when my mother was ill, we had just moved house and I had a new baby, I desperately wanted my inlaws to stay with us and help. They knew this, but my dh felt they would be in the way and said to his parents that we were ok. I know he didn't want his parents to see us in a less than perfect light. I still cannot get my head around this. I don't know whether this attitude means my dh is deepely damaged by them or whether the three of them just have a different, but healthy independent type adult relationship. They expressed their sorrow, and visited when it was New Year for social reasons, but not practical 'hands on in a crisis' reasons. They never visited my mother when she became ill in case she was upset about them seeing her in her condition.

The saddest thing of all, I now find myself joining dh and his parents in their game of airbrushing away life's problems. There are so very few things I can complain about to them, that they get a very false view of me.

As our sons get older and more aware, I expect more home truths will come out by mistake or on purpose. That should be interesting.

just wanted to add a general comment. Some grandparents get off lightly if their adult children are not very needy in an emotional or practical sense. That's the luck of the draw. They can have a 'social occasions only' type of relationship without anyone feeling hard done by. But that doesn't make it right for everyone.

How much you need your parents when you are an adult depends a lot on the sort of life you live. A mother with money, health and work problems would probaly need more parenting from her own parents. I think it's right to expect continued support from the people who brought you into the world and understandable if you feel they have damaged you by not giving you that support.

Coming back to this thread, noticed your questions MU, I just believe that if you forgive then there is no longer any need to confront. The forgiving is for your sake rather than theirs and changes the balance of power in your own mind.

As for self-help books like Toxic Parents why would you choose to have your reaction to your parents proscribed (is that the right word?) by someone who has found yet another way to exploit people for money?