Inheritance, adult step children and biological family

[changeme4this]

A moral question (not in the Uk so don't worry about the legals)...

Frank is a relative of mine and his health isn't the best. Basically he knows he is on borrowed time so trying to do as much as he can.

Frank has been married to his 2nd wife for a number of years now, and when her children from her first marriage were younger (they do not have children together) the children took on/were given our family surname although no formal adoption was put in place and Frank raised them as his own.

Those children had a relationship with their bio Father until he moved overseas and continue today with connections with half siblings and extended family now they are well into adulthood.

Frank had a successful business when he met his 2nd wife that was started with his 1st wife. 1st wife was paid out as part of divorce proceedings, and they keep in contact. The business has substantially grown during his 2nd marriage to the credit of both Frank and his 2nd wife.

Her children have been financially taken care of throughout their years. In recent times, they were awarded (via court) a share of their bio Father's estate.

Recently one of them asked for and received (converted to UK currency) 1 million pounds to buy their dream property. It's all put through a family trust to protect that adult child from any future claim from their spouse, and was set up years ago.

The other adult step children received similar in the name of fairness. As you can guess, Frank and his wife are not short of a quid.

Frank told me he is worried about his Will being challenged and has been to several Lawyers. This conversation included his 2nd Wife. I ran through the usual scenarios, ie 1st wife putting in another claim, DIL or SIL claiming on the assets given to his step children etc. None of those seem to be of concern and the conversation dropped.

Fast forward and when on my own it dawned on me Frank might feel his siblings might challenge his Will. I don't think he has remembered or addressed money being loaned to him many years ago, and it has built some resentment with the siblings. Frank was supported in his youth by his siblings giving their wages back to the family. It's not a conversation I'm willing to have over the phone, but plan on seeing Frank again in coming months (we live in different countries to each other).

My question is: Do you think Frank should include his siblings in his Will to some degree?

Sorry for the length of the post, I didn't want to drip feed.

Guess it depends on the country and the laws of that land?

I think it’s completely Franks decision, and if he’s worried his will may be challenged, then I expect he has already considered carefully who he wants to included.

I think Frank should leave it to all his children (including his step children). Siblings won't be able to challenge that.
He should make it very clear that this is his wish too!

If he thinks it wiol be challenged by them then they are scum bags and a note could be included on the will to say absolutely noone else in my family is to have anything else. He could leave each sibling a piece of jewellery etc or something else low value. So he has "included" them

If frank knows he was financially supported by his siblings and he is loaded why isn’t he wanting to repay their kindness?

Does Frank have children with his first wife? You don’t mention them, so I guess not.
As he’s already given £1m to each of his step children and presumably there’s a considerable amount left for his wife, I would have thought he’d leave some to his siblings who helped him in the past. But I don’t think they can successfully challenge a will unless there’s something in writing about the past support being a loan or a future promise of recompense. But morally I think he should.

Thank you for your replies. Yes it’s a moral question..

Frank doesn’t have any biological children.

He is aware of his early family life dire straits from discussions if not memory. There is a significant age difference so he may not fully understand the obligations on the oldest who had to work to support the family.

Does Frank have nieces or nephews? If he does, and their parents contributed to Frank in his youth, I feel strongly Frank should give something to them.

Framl needs it spelling out to him clearly and he needs to include his siblings in the will to prevent a counter claim. Frame it as repaying back loans he owes to his family which has enabled him to be successfulin his business. Built into his will to prevent his siblings challenging the will afterwards.

Maybe point out the extend of the older brother’s contribution to the family, and ask if he would like to leave a sum of money to his siblings. He could leave a small amount, as a nod to that help. People can contest the will if they like, but surely unlikely to be successful.

It does matter where you are as in some countries the law dictates who receives an inheritance and wills do not “exist” in the same way as in English law. I’m pretty sure in Italy any inheritance is divided between any surviving spouse and children and only if there’s no one in that category does any inheritance go to their parents or siblings.

If he feels he does owe them anything why doesn't he repay them now while he's still alive rather than putting something in his will? Having said that, if he has no biological children then why is he not including his siblings anyway?

I don’t understand why he doesn’t include his siblings in his will if they supported him when he was younger. It would make sense for him to include them, even if the majority goes to his children.

Yes he does have nieces and nephews and Frank visits most of his overseas siblings as health permits. He did leave one out in the last months of their life though and I’m not sure what that was about as the sibling had dementia and lost the ability to communicate.

everyone gets on in a polite way.

If Frank's siblings are significantly older than him, he should leave something to his Neices & Nephews in recognition of the family support he received when he was growing up.

If his siblings contributed their wage to support the family while Frank was a child then presumably that went to Franks parents, not him directly so there's no obligation there. I feel kind of the same if they gave money to support Frank's education as this is really a parental responsibility.

If however the siblings lent/gave money to Frank personally as an adult then I do feel that should be returned.

The siblings are much older though so I don't see why he should put money in his will, if he's the youngest then he's statistically going to be the last to die. He should be paying them back now.

However, if there is no lending of money, and there is a significant difference in life quality, there is a good chance that supporting Frank and the family has lowered their standard of living. If Frank is throwing millions around then it doesn't seem a hardship to support his siblings and their family in return both now and also a contribution in his will to surviving family members.

By giving something in the will, he may be able to protect it from being challenged too.

This is all dependant on a decent relationship and that his birth family aren't greedy entitled fuckers though....

Out of kindness and in exchange for earlier assistance, Frank could gift his nieces and nephews something now (a repayment of a loan) before he gets too much older.

He couild then leave his Will to his wife and step-children without his bio family feeling agrieved.

So he should pay siblings money for the money they used to put into his childhood home ? When he was a lot younger and had nothing to do with this ?
Then no he has no moral or anything else reason to .
Thats what's normal. The older siblings often start paying keep to parents before the younger. It doesnt mean the younger owe them something when adults.
Also this must have been a very long time ago.
Unless you mean something else? Its not very clear.
Why dont you just say as a siblings to someone with a lot of money I would like some . Thats atleast honest.
Whats all this stuff about step kids..all seems like a distraction. They obviously like them and have supported them in a big way. But that is by choice .

Frank should do whatever he damn well feels like with his money and assets. Also, it is very unusual for someone who is contesting a will to be successful. and the step siblings sound like they don't have a good case. Presumably he's of sound mind.

A child isn’t responsible for the decisions adults make about how the household is supported. He doesn’t ‘owe’ anyone for feeding him when he was a child.

That said it sounds as if there has been a culture shift across his generation from flourishing as a family- where older children pay to support the family, to flourishing as an individual- Frank is rich because Frank has been successful.

In many countries the family is supported before the individual- women leaving DC to be raised by GPs while the mum earns and sends money back home, possibly paying for a sibling to train into a better paid job.
If Frank’s siblings are culturally aligned with that, then Frank’s success should be their success too.

He should be generous to them
now rather than later though.

If Frank includes his siblings and nieces/nephews in his will then it will show the courts that he did consider these people rather than them just being left out altogether. He could do a small stipulated percentage. We were advised against using actual amounts but are in England.

@mylovedoesitgood OP states "In recent times, they were awarded (via court) a share of their bio Father's estate" that doesn't sound like they were included in the will but were granted significant sums of money. This is not the UK, even in Scotland there are rights of children etc to their parent's estate.

No of course not. It was commonplace to give your first pay packets back to the household and just keep a token amount.

The siblings have had decades to become successful in their own right like Frank has.

I take it you’re his sister and feel you helped him on his way and now want some money out of it?

Thanks for your thoughts. I can see both sides and thought I would ask what others would feel for the situation.

I am not a sibling though !

yes loans were made when Frank was older but many years ago. He was helped out with accommodation during my life time as well, during time of need.

Ultimately (imo) it should have been up to the siblings to sort that out, but I think upset occurred and Frank was considered immature etc as a repayment was never forthcoming.

the discussions on mums net re 2nd marriages and assets is what pricked my interest to ask, and for Franks situation as it’s fairly unique.

re the step children’s bio father, their mother took his recent estate to court/engaged solicitors to act on behalf of her (adult) children as the father went on to re partner and have more offspring. Only her Kids initially didnt receive anything after he died and property was involved.

thanks for your time. Not sure my mind is made up one way or another but it’s helped to see either side isn’t necessarily being unreasonable.

I will say I find his 2nd wife an extremely reasonable woman. Only Frank’s version of his younger (successful) years that he is open about in front of her, doesn’t quite tally with the loan/sibling accomodation period.

if the conversation arises again, I have decided to gently suggest ‘recollections may vary’ in our family as well…

" don't think he has remembered or addressed money being loaned to him many years ago, and it has built some resentment with the siblings. Frank was supported in his youth by his siblings giving their wages back to the family"

Could you expand a little upon this? I'm not sure I understand the extent nor the circumstances in which Frank was supported in his youth, nor money loaned to him?

Was the support in his youth as a child/ teenager with older siblings paying into the family pot, or helping out a sibling while a child? Or was it financial support as a young adult - for example paying university fees/ buying him a new car/ major deposit for first house?

Likewise what were the loans? Did he repay them? Were these more of the nature of tens of thousands of pounds to start a business, or to get started in life? Or acting as a short term source for a few hundred pounds here or there?

The loans I know of were not repaid and he was an adult.

His recollection of life at the time was he paid for a property for a future with someone else, and he walked away from her and the property leaving her with it.

and thus is part of the problem the sibling should have dealt with at the time but it didn’t get sorted or spoken of, but caused the sibling a lot of grief as the funds came from a shared bank account.

FYI when I posted here, I wasn’t looking at a repayment clause in his Will for the siblings involved, because clearly he could sort that now.

But rather an acknowledgement of their being through his life and the fact they are bio family who have provided support, they all get on and still remain ‘family’ as well as the step family who also have financial support from their bio parents living and estates.

I hope that makes sense.