Being seen in relationships.

[OneNeatBlueOrca]

Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to post. Ive noticed for a while, but i'm not particularly assertive in all my relationships and I wish I could be more so.

I have a difficult childhood background.I won't go into.
I grew up being a people pleaser trying to get people to like me as I never really felt cared for.

And whilst I have worked on this and I ve had therapy, I m finding putting it practice very difficult. It's insidious where I don't often notice that i'm people pleasing at the time.

I have a boyfriend.I've been with for 2 years. It can be difficult to get him to do things that I like but. Overall, the things we do, we pretty much see eye to eye on. But it's where we don't, that's the problem.

For example, i've been asking him to go for a particular city (UK) for a break and wealth, he makes noises about it.He never makes plans. Similar with a particular day trip I wanted to go to - asking last year came to nothing and asking this year, he said, okay, maybe, and now never mentioned it again.

A few days ago, he asked me if I d like to go and see a show in a nearby city with some friends of his, who I know now and get on very well with. I agreed to do it. He asked if I could take a day of leave for it. I said yes to it.

Then I started thinking, this is a day of annual leave and train tickets to see something, i'm actually not that bothered about. Whereas the things I ve asked to do have just been left though i've asked the last couple of years in a row.

I hope this doesn't sound childish, but I was going to decide to pull out of the but he's already booked tickets and he said he will cover mine as a gift from him. I know it's kind of him and he hasn'done anything wrong because he did ask me and I said yes.

But why is he able to commit to something like this and the things i've asked to do recently we end up not doing it.

I don't have a great relationship history and I haven't really been in a long term one before. Nothing more than about three or four years, which is hardly anything given I m in my late thirties.

Because of my lack of experience, I m not sure if I should have a conversation about that's it or should I just let my actions speak. The last time this happened, I just went with somebody else and had a great time.And he was actually sad, he hadn't done it with me. Shall I just go off and do it myself and forget him.

But then that means I end up doing things.He wants together, and I end up doing things I want alone.

I want to be seen, and I sometimes don't feel seen. The things I like and want aren't given equal weight. I hope this doesn't make me sound childish.

I’m honestly not sure what you are saying. You say you make suggestions about what you want to do and then it ‘gets left’.

Who are you expecting to do the organising for the things you want to do with your partner and/or your friends ?

I think over time your BF has got used to you going along with his wishes and not having a real wishes of your own, or at least none that he needs to make adjustments to accommodate.

It may not change overnight, you both need to change your behaviour and that takes time. Practice asking for what you want, the more you do that and you get what you want, the more you’ll be aware of your needs.

Start small, make it where you choose to go for dinner, or even what you want to buy at the supermarket or what to watch on TV together.

Dont worry about saying it clumsily, asking for what you need takes practice. It also takes some discomfort, dont let this derail you,

Let people deal with your truth. You’ve been dealing with theirs long enough.

Good luck OP, you’re already on the path to growth!

It gets left as he's just not interested in doing anything for me. That's the size of it.

He said no to that concert outright, without even looking, who was playing. If he d looked, he d have seen, there's something he actually would have liked and I went to with somebody else.

By contrast, the friend of his mentioned a play last minute she wanted to see and he jumped to it and sent the details to me.So we could all go together. I said, hang on a minute, what even is this. What's it about. He said he hadn't looked. When he did look properly at the play, actually, it wasn't something he wanted to see. And he said, no to his friend.

Right.... So when I ask him about something I want to do, he says, no outright without looking. Jumps to it for his friend without looking and takes it seriously.

That absolutely wasn't what happened. He didn't forget it. We were walking through the park - outdoor bands at a large london park you know it's the season for it.

We were together, and I pointed that the poster, and I said, you want to go to that. He took one look at it and said, no. Unequivocally.

He said you should go with somebody who would enjoy it better than me.

So I did. Then when I told him I was going and who was playing he actually made a whining noise and said oh I really like that band.

It didn't get forgotten, he said, no outright without even looking. Then was annoyed.It was something he would have enjoyed.

There's more I could say, but he is pretty controlling. Blames it on his ocd, which by nature is a controlling mental health issue.

No, i'm not with him out of fear of being alone. I've been alone for most of my life. Being alone for me is the default. I don't know why I just ended up in a string of bad relationships and being cheated on that kind of thing.

I'm not with him out of fear of being alone. But let's just say he's an angel compared to some of the boyfriends i've had in the past.

It wasn't more about changing his behaviour that i'm worried about, because you can't change somebody's behaviour. It's more advice on how to change mine.

Contrary to popular belief, boundaries are not to make somebody behave the way you want them to. Boundaries are for you to decide whether or not you will tolerate the behavior.

I need to have better boundaries. He probably has no idea that I'm. Agreeing to these things reluctantly and thinking why can't we do something for me. That's an issue for me to sort. I need to start saying no. Because I'm starting to get resentful, that I'm spending money and time doing things. I don't especially want to do whilst neglecting things, I really do want to do.

That's an issue for me to sort. All very helpful advice

So going forward, I will just say no to something I don't want to do or I am lukewarm about.

I will state a clearer intention for something I want to do. And if he says yes I ll push it and make it happen. If he's then is luke, warm or says, no.I ll just go and do it myself.

Well you do need him to book off annual leave. Otherwise you can make the arrangements and book the trip yourself - If you leave it to him, it will never happen, as you’ve found out!

Over the years I’ve learnt that whilst DH will often make initial suggestions of holiday ideas etc, if I want them to actually happen I need to do the research and booking myself.

This might sound ridiculous, but surely I shouldn't have to do that.

Why not?

Someone has to sort out the logistics of making it happen.

Why shouldn't it be you? If it's your suggestion?

Yes.

This thing is happening on this date at this time and at this place.

I'm going. I'd like you to come shall I get you a ticket too?

Otherwise it's just a pie in the sky idea.

My partner and insuggst loads of things to each other that never happen. It's always because the person who suggested it wasn't that fussed about it really and the other forgot about it.

If one of us suggests we do something, that's the person who makes it happen.

Being controlling is an abusive trait.
Not acceptable in a healthy relationship.

He doesn't value you enough to please you, the way he does his friend.

You either accept this or match his energy.
A straight No from now on to ANYTHING that doesn't appeal to you.

You cannot change him, only yourself.

So match his energy.
Join a hobby and be a lot less available.
Do things with other people and actively pursue doing things with other people.

I think if you do you will see him even more clearly.

This is not someone to settle for.
If he really valued you, he would be keen to join you doing something of interest to YOU.

You deserve better OP.

People pleasers never end up happy with themselves.
Resentment is always bubbling underneath.
I know, I was one.

It is so empowering to say No.
Its like a muscle.
The more you exercise it, the easier it becomes.😁

I get the impression he ia fobbing me off.

Dont need annual leave for a weekend

I think this is key. You can’t change how HE behaves when you (or his friend) invite him to something. But you can change your own response to his suggestions.

Your relationship sounds very similar to mine. My DP struggles with anxiety and I spend a lot of emotional energy trying not to upset him etc. I saw that one of my favourite bands was playing a festival on the Sunday. I presumed he’d prefer the Saturday line up, so we talked a few times about what was the best thing to do. He was umming and ahhing about which day to go, both of us trying to be considerate, he then started talking about whether his DS might like to come, and who could watch him if he didn’t etc. He then said he might feel overwhelmed being at a festival and wouldn’t feel comfortable being around alcohol etc as he doesn’t drink anymore and how he could cope with that etc . It was all getting so complicated and so focussed on him tbh. and he really didn’t seem keen.

This was over several weeks. In the end I booked a whole weekend ticket and said that he (and his DS) should go on whichever day they liked and I would meet up with them for the day, but I didn’t want to lose the chance if tickets sold out, so I’d booked mine already.

He then got upset that I was going without him, said I didn’t want to spend time with him, was probably going alone so I could meet other men etc. it’s just exhausting.

All I can do is to continue to book things I want to do, give him an out, but make it clear I’d be happy for him to come along too. And say no to things he suggests if I don’t want to do them (eg meeting his ex work colleagues for lunch, or his 12 year old’s birthday party! My idea of hell and all my DCs are grown up, so I’ve done my share of kids parties).

It feels a bit like I’m being mean or keeping my life separate from his, but its important to still do things even if he doesn’t want to, and tbh even if that makes him feel uncomfortable. I KNOW I’m not going to anything to meet men, so if he worries about that, it’s on him.

And I have every right to protect my own emotional energy by saying no to things I don’t want to do. He’ll say that as his partner I should be there, but I honestly don’t agree. I invite him to come out with my friends but he’s too anxious or tired. It doesn’t bother me. It would be nice if he did, but I don’t want him to come to something that makes him uncomfortable. He says yes to every lunch invitation or meet up his friends suggest. I’m actually glad that he feels able to say no to me, as having him along but being resentful about it would be worse.

Edited to delete as accidentally double posted the same thing.

Your relationship sounds very similar to mine. My DP struggles with anxiety and I spend a lot of emotional energy trying not to upset him etc. I saw that one of my favourite bands was playing a festival on the Sunday. I presumed he’d prefer the Saturday line up, so we talked a few times about what was the best thing to do. He was umming and ahhing about which day to go, both of us trying to be considerate, he then started talking about whether his DS might like to come, and who could watch him if he didn’t etc. He then said he might feel overwhelmed being at a festival and wouldn’t feel comfortable being around alcohol

Until you mentioned the son and the alcohol as my dp has no children and he still drinks we could have been talking about the same person. God, it's exhausting, isn't it?This tomfoolery over what they can tolerate.

So it ended up coming up today. Just something he said, and I mentioned it. And now he's not replied.

Then just book it! Either for yourself or both or you, but don’t waste time waiting for him to get his act together and do it….

No i'm not going to anymore.

He's not taken kindly to me mentioning it today. Just that, could I possibly choose something sometimes because he's not agreed to do a couple of things I. Ve recently asked him to do, and now he's just been able to book a trip away for something he wants to do.

Didn't take too kindly to that.And now he's barely talking to me. I can't be bothered with this.

I can't change his behavior only mine. I'm going to stop people pleasing, and just say A. Genuine, no, if I don't wanna do something, or if I don't want to spend that sort of money on it.

Honestly after just two years and presumably no DC I would call it a day and find someone who's interests are more like yours, or who at least is a little easier to organise with. Sounds like too much work and too much controlling negativity.

That said, when my dh says" do you want to go do X?" and I say "sure, could be fun!" I don't imagine that it's now on me to find a date and tickets and figure out if DC want to come and make a booking and make it happen. If he doesn't mention it again, ok then. So waiting for him to organise isn't fair.

But the thing about being like pp's dp with the anxiety and what if this, what if that, can't possibly if it might be too crowded or too hot or not ideal in some other way.. that's just not worth it on top of the asymmetry where he jumps to it for friends but can't be bothered to even read a poster when it's your suggestion.

I was like this in one of my relationships. Always willing to go along with whatever he fancied doing, but he'd never want to do anything I suggested. I've been told I'm a people-pleaser too. I think the answer is to be more selfish. Not in a nasty way, but so you don't forget that you are just as important as him.

If you don't much care for something he's asked you to go to, then don't go. That's his approach, after all. If you want to do something and he says no, then find a friend or go by yourself - it's liberating. Don't lose out on life for a man.

So he is giving you the silent treatment as punishment for asking for anything?

This is his shutting you down and trying to deliberately train you to ask for nothing.

This is what controlling, manipulative abusive men do.

Read these books
"Why does he do that?" Lundy Bancroft
"Women who love too much" Robin Norwood

These will really help you see the wood from the trees.

Google "The boiled frog analogy" about relationships.

Google "The Shark's cage"

Google "Sunken cost fallacy" for relationships.

Knowledge is power.
www.freedomprogramme.co.uk is a great programme to build boundaries.

You deserve a good man that genuinely cares about you, not this selfish man child.

Don't contact him.
Take a break.
Do some reading.

Does go quiet on me when I challenge him.

Some very good suggestions

I'm not going to read lundy bancroft because I don't know if you know the history behind it. He hasn't been published by anything more than a vanity press.

The Bancroft who is an anti vaxxer and conspiracy theorist.

The Bancroft who was holding retreats in the US just for abused women to help them "heal" and his behaviour was far from good towards them.

Anyway, that's beside the point.Yes he does often do this. When I do challenge him on things, he goes quiet and shuts me down. He is autistic as well and I do wonder if he has rejection sensitive dyswhatever it is.
I've noticed he takes the slightest criticism far too harshly.

You’re right that you should do more for you, but that includes doing things that you want to do, with or without him, not just having the confidence to turn down his offers that you don’t fancy. Go girl!

I've just remembered that he bought me an experience day out voucher for my birthday last year.Not this year. So the birthday before last he bought me an experience voucher, and we haven't even looked at it properly yet, and it's probably going to expire in a few months.

When it's his friend, he can jump to it or something.He wants to do.

I might just go and book something with my friends.

God he's really not talking to me. I've had one cursory text with none of the usual warmth or our banter.

I shouldn't have said anything. I just should have let my actions speak. Do what I want with or without him?And say no, to things of his that, I don't want to do.

I shouldn't have said anything.