At what point do I check out of the father son relationship?

[YouBastardSockBalls]

I am happy to be told I’m getting it wrong. I just want to get it right.

My H had an abusive upbringing and doesn’t seem to know how to be an involved dad - given that he had a very poor example, I can see how it would be hard for him.

But it is really starting to affect my kids as they’re getting older, my DS in particular.

H is basically a kind person and has always wanted to be a good dad. But is a workaholic and so to be honest, work has always come first. He works away so the kids can sometimes not see him for weeks on end. When home, he is very involved with practical care, but if I’m honest, only if it doesn’t impact work time.

The kids love him and he’s great fun when he’s here. But he doesn’t know much about their lives. Doesn’t know the names of their teachers for example. In fact I doubt he knows what years they’re in. He’s never attended a sports day or parents evening. If i go away (extremely rare) I have to plan everything in forensic detail.

He has never taught them to do anything. Never got involved with hobbies. It’s quite sad writing it all down really.

Obviously it’s all a problem but the main problem atm is DS. Last year he moved schools due to a house move, and his new best friend is into a very male dominated hobby that DS is now also really into. New best friend’s dad gives him loads of support with this, and is an involved and interested dad. He has extended this support to DS and has been really kind getting him started in the hobby. This has caused some upset for DS, as I think he is beginning to realise that not all dads are absent.

This weekend was his first competition in the hobby, and it didn’t go well. He had lots of support from friends dad, but feels very low and like he looked silly. His friend did really well, but his dad practices with him all the time.

It’s the kind of thing that all the other boys do with their dad, so although I’m obviously happy to try and learn about it to help him, it would make him stick out even more being the only one with his mum and sisters.

DS was crying last night and H walked in. I explained that he was feeling low about the hobby and H was just unsupportive and brushed off his feelings, like he’s always done with me. He says he just needs to practice and get better doesn’t he. I said well will you help him? He was sort of non-commitally agreeing to try when he can, but we all knew what that meant.

DS was still upset and I tried to explain to H why. That he felt his feelings were being disregarded, he had many worries that had just been brushed off, and if H carried on like this then he would push the children away the same way he’s pushed me away.

This morning H not talking to me. I know I shouldn’t have said anything probably, just leave him to it, but my heart just breaks for my son.

There’s kids who don’t have dads at all, or whose dads work away a lot, so I don’t see how you and DS being there would be odd. Go support your DS.

You were right to tell him, and i’d have spoken about the support friend gets. He needs to step up

Workaholics are self medicating with work. Working means he can bury his head in the sand and avoid anything uncomfortable as he's in control. He's probably also terrified of intimacy.

He needs therapy and would probably benefit from parenting classes as he had terrible role models. You say he's kind but he's choosing work over his family.

I can’t make him go to therapy. I have tried to gently prod him in that direction. Sometimes he says he’ll look into it, but I don’t think he will.

I am so sad for my kids, but especially my son. I worry that they are all going to grow up with issues around their relationship with their father. It is already happening really. But what can I do?? He just doesn’t want to hear it from me.

If I’m honest he has already completely pushed me away through being completely emotionally unavailable. Which is why it hurts extra seeing the kids go through the same.

My dad was like this and to be honest it did affect my brother more than the rest of us. He used to sit in the car and read a paper while the other dads were on the sidelines cheering. I know it hurt my brother at the time but now I have boys and see how involved my H is — he coaches the team and rearranges work to be there, I am even more appalled at my dad’s behaviour.

When my dad finally retired I think it was an eye opener that there is a life beyond work and it’s not your colleagues who will be holding your hand on your deathbed. He’s more involved in our lives now but it’s definitely too late with my brother. He tolerates our dad but doesn’t respect or look up to him.

Unfortunately you can’t make your H change. You’ve raised it now so he is aware of it. If he chooses to ignore it and make you the problem there is nothing you can do. My mum divorced my dad for this (and other) reasons. In a way it did make our relationship with him slightly better because he had to be more present on his weekends.

OP I totally get where you are with this. A great Saturday dad but gone during the week for work etc. All you can do is andninwhwt did is turn up for your son as the hubby demands it , thank your sons friend for his help (I had a very honest conversation with my sons coaches about his dads lack of involvement and asked for their help and boy did they step up and guide him and they did it with such kindness - another reminder that there are such good men out there ). Also men who get involved like that are good role models for your son. And he needs to see that. It also helped my son with an absent Dad to have male friends etc welcome in the house etc and I encouraged that. Your son wants to well at the hobby so help him and he will feel better. His dad won’t change.

Sorry I mistyped. Where it said “hubby demands it “ I meant hobby demands it. Also OP if you had the funds can you look for an older teen / young mentor in the hobby to help your son progress ? Confidence in it will take the edge off the dad thing.

This sounds so difficult - not only for your DS but for you.

The " not talking " to you response from him would absolutely enrage me.

It's sad that your H had an abusive upbringing but it's unforgivable that he is allowing it to impact on his own children in the way it obviously is. And the potential is that this learned behaviour will be repeated in your children's children's lives and so on down the generations.

I think its ultimatum time: either he gets therapy to address his issues and " learns" to be a supportive father or honestly the marriage is over.

In the mean time there's nothing wrong with you being involved in your son's hobby even if it is " normally" a father / son thing. My H died when my son was relatively young and its amazing the amount of football/ rugby knowledge I acquired and the number of matches I attended so I could help fill the void left by his Dad. You do what you need to do.

Support your son as best you can. Anything you say to DH will be felt as criticism of him personally rather than of his behaviour. He is likely to believe he is unable to change.

My DH has been much better since certain stresses were removed from his life. Is there anything that can be simplified for your DH?

The comment about who you spend your retirement with is so perceptive. Some men feel overwhelming duty about work, and don’t realise that duty should be with their family.

And without addressing it directly, make him aware of what he could be doing, how helpful it is of other dad to do it, and what an amazing impact it would have for your son. And how he could be spending his time to build relationships and hobbies that will help his retirement.

So I’d share a worry with him and ask him for ideas of how to fix it.- I’m going to “golf” to support DS, but I’m a bit worried. It’s all boys and dads and I don’t want to embarrass him. I’m not sure if I should go or not.
DS is trying to do “Y” but it’s not something I know how to do. I hate it when he feels like he has to manage everything himself and no one is on his side.

Sorry to hear that you H died, that must have been so tough for you all.

Yes, I know im ultimately going to have to deal with this hobby too. My daughters also have time consuming hobbies. It is what it is. I have attended rugby twice a week with my son ever since he was 5 too, again he’s the one with the mum.

The marriage is already over tbh, I just have to stay with him or his abusive family will end up back in my kids lives.

I think for a start you’ve got to be careful not to let your feelings rub off on your son. Don’t argue about it in front of him.

As to the rest of it, my dad was in the forces so he was away a lot. My mum just stepped up and did what was needed to cover his absences. If there was any resentment on her part, I never knew it. My mum didn’t drive, so friends’ parents were also great at filling in the gaps.

Sympathies OP, I have a situation a bit similar. My H has Autism, not diagnosed till years after we had kids. Hi autism causes real issues in his parenting. He has no attunement with his kids emotions, can only relate to them through his own interests, terrible emotional regulation and so on. I have very much worried about this for his relationship with the kids and they are entirely reliant on me for nearly all their needs, and all their emotional needs. And living like this is very draining for me.

H is finally getting support from the autism service, but I have had to look into and arrange it all. He is though, they say, engaging with the support ( which is one to one). You could try looking into the support and finding the right type if therapy/ therapist and see what he says. He would have to want to engage and out in the work though.

You could try framing things more postivy to your H. So positive in terms of how he can support and grow his relationship with his son. How therapy can give him some tools for that. Depending on his trauma, he may shut himself off to anything he hears as criticism.

i would do everything I could to help my son continue in that hobby. His friend’s Dad is a good male role model, and a good model of fatherhood, and your son needs that, both for himself and to break the chain of generational trauma.

H was just unsupportive and brushed off his feelings, like he’s always done with me

Well... you know what this man is like and yet you keep expecting him to be different and suddenly become a loving, generous, empathetic wonder man. He's just another man who has conned you into believing their words and not their actions. You say he wants to be a good dad but wanting is not enough, he needs to put effort into that and he cba.

Moving forward acknowledge you are now a single parent in all but name. What would you do if DH was no longer around permanently? Do that.

It is what it is, as you've said it. You're never going to change other people (they need to want to change) and wasting or breath seems pointless. You're going to have to step up too and do this too. I'd also talk to coaches as someone said or whoever and say you don't have the support of your husband but you want what's best for your son and if they can guide you - hopefully something will work out.

I'm in a similar boat as my kids father passed and I was solo parenting for a long time, had to be mum and dad and it was exhausting. There's no break. At all. We are in Europe during school season and when it was snowing all the dads were out (whilst the mums cook I was told). So next weekend I woke up extra early, cooked, made sure life was ready and went snowball fighting and snow playing with all the dads. Pulling sleds around too. I was absolutely shattered. Dare I say, I hated it. Had to be done though.

Partner is fantastic but due to work (and I took the kids abroad for school) we are separate a lot of the time. When he is here he is very present with my kids though so there is that. He also has form for enabling the kids hobbies and wishes when they tell him what they're into, and that gives me a lot more work too. Kid mentions they want to try camping? I'll have next day delivery huge camping set arrive and be told "have fun!"

Overall, your main focus has to be your sons happiness. Don't waste your breath. If husband asks what can he do "learn how to help son with x" and leave it at that. If he wants to, he will. In your experience, he probably won't, so assume he won't and carry on. You've got this!

@Chocwars my ex was the same and I suspect he is autistic. He said he loved football but was an armchair supporter. He wouldn’t support our son to take part . I was the one on the sidelines every week . I also took my son to watch our local professional team . He is an adult now and it’s still “our” thing. My son wasn’t a great player but it helped him build a friendship group and he blossomed. It can be boring OP but please stick with it for your son .

You facilitate every facet of his life as a husband and father, and enable him to be as crap as he is. You don't love him any more and he doesn't deserve you doing all of this for him. It's time to remove the privilege of having a wife who facilitates his pretence of being a husband and father and cut him loose. Why do you say his abusive family will be back in their lives? How much time do you really think this man will seek to spend with them if you split?

I think what you say about how the kids will be influenced by this when they’re parents could be the clincher. Surely he’d want to break the cycle.

No advice OP, just wanted to say how sad I am for you and your kids. I cant imagine the guilt you must feel. Does your DH know you want to leave but are stuck?
You said early in your initial post that he has always wanted to be a good dad - have you spoken to him about this before, asked him what he thinks a good dad would do in x situation and what he thinks about the fact he's doing y etc?

It's heartbreaking OP but I think you have to check out now. You have tried and it sounds like it isn't going to change so the best you can do is step in as best you can yourself. It will be draining and exhausting (it already is as you say) but you can at least spare yourself the agony of trying to fix things between father and son. It is your DH's choice not to be involved and you can't change it so better to accept it, as painful as that is. Be kind to yourself and give yourself maximum credit for being a brilliant Mum in a really hard situation that is not of your making.

Thank you very much. Yes I suspect you are all right. Poor DS ☹️
Looks like I’ll be learning another new sport. I am exhausted with being the only parent in the family.

You shouldn’t stay with him just because you don’t want his family to have access to your kids. By accepting this you are showing your daughter it’s ok for her to do everything and not expect anything back from her partner. Your son will grow up believing his father’s priorities are acceptable.

It sounds like your H wouldn’t be interested in more than EOW anyway. Speak to a solicitor but I think you can arrange for right of first refusal which would mean if your H wasn’t able to look after them on his weekend he would need to give you the opportunity to take them before anyone else. You may also be able to specifically request certain people do not interact with your kids if they are known to be abusive. It’s worth looking into if this is the only reason you are staying in the marriage.