Desperately trying to piece my family back togetgher

[makelemons]

I’m writing to Mumsnet in the hope of some objective advice, as I’m so desperately sad about my family situation as a result of the relationship my brother’s found himself in, which has created a rift in my family. I’m now in the middle trying to hold the pieces together.

For context on our family situation, I had a beautiful baby girl with my husband 5 months ago. She’s our everything and I’m very protective of her, and want to create the most loving, big happy family environment for her where she can be surrounded by love. My husband is incredible and my parents (who are in their 70s) adore him. My mum and I are incredibly close, and while my dad isn’t a very affectionate dad (and a recovering alcoholic), we get on well now - although he was a very distant father as we grew up which has affected my brother more so than me. My brother and I are both in our 30s and have always been very close.. but he’s been drifting from my family over the last couple of years due to his toxic relationship with his GF.

For context, my brother met this girl 3 years ago. Their relationship has always been filled with explosive verbal arguments and whenever they get really bad, he struggles to cope with it on his own and comes running to my me, my mum and dad when things get bad, telling us everything (how all of his friends hate her, how she says she hates his family, locks him out of the house, that my mum is a witch and that none of his friends like her) creating a rift when they inevitably then make up the next day. My brother then expects it all to be normal and can’t understand it when my dad doesn’t have any time for her.

Where did this all start? 3 years ago when my brother had only been dating her around 6 months, he decided to show off to her and gatecrash my parents holiday, taking her on holiday abroad to my aunt & uncle’s apartment in Florida. My husband and I couldn’t go as it clashed with our honeymoon so we escaped the drama that ensued.

To cut a long story short, the holiday was a nightmare and my family immediately didn’t warm to her as she didn’t say thank you at any point, never really got involved in conversation and never got off her bum to help around the apartment while she got waited on her hand and foot. Then, one night, my brother and her went on a night out just the two of them, got way too drunk and into a huge argument where they then both stormed off and lost each other. My mum then got a call at 2am from her blind drunk, asking her for the address to the villa as she couldn’t find my brother. My parents got out of bed and in the car, found her stumbling towards the apartment down a dark street and drove her home which point se was shouting drunk “I don’t like your family, I want MY family” because her dad had recently died and she was struggling with the loss. My dad then took huge offence to that and told her to pull it together and that she was an embarrassment. (Fair enough, my dad probably shouldn’t have snapped but it was 2am in the morning and he was upset that she’d put my mum at risk asking her to get in the car at 2am in the morning to pick her up).

My brother eventually arrived back at my aunt’s apartment in a taxi at 1am and the two of them screamed and shouted at each other for over an hour, waking everyone up. My parents were horrified as this wasn’t even in their home, it was my aunt’s who hosted them all week for free. Their flight home happened to be the next day and, while my brother said thank you to my aunt & uncle for hosting them and apologised, his GF didn’t even get out of the car to say goodbye or thank you to my family before they drove off - which left a really bad taste in everyone’s mouth.

This was 2 years ago. Ever since then, my dad (who is in his seventies and quite traditional) has made it very clear he can’t stand her and thinks she’s wrong for my brother. I never got involved as my parents asked me not to and I wasn’t there, after all.

Since then, fast forward 3 years, we’ve had babies (my brother and his GF’s baby was born 2 weeks apart from our baby girl - which was a really special time for us all). However, there have only been a couple of occasions where we’ve all been together since then as a family in over 3 years, two of which were Christmas Days pre- babies that have ended in my brother and his GF storming out after my dad made rude comments after one too many glasses of wine at the table, referencing nice girls my brother should meet up with. Generally, my dad doesn’t acknowledge her and just ignores her, so her and my brother no longer really visit my parents’ house and see me, my mum, my husband & the babies separately without my dad.

Fast forward to today.. my brother is in a really sticky situation with her. He’s now moved 2 hours away and bought a house with her as she didn’t like living in London and wanted to be near her “support network” yet she has no family nearby so they get no help with childcare unlike we do with my mum who is so generous with her time and would 100% look after their baby more if they didn’t live so far sway. His GF also doesn’t like many of his closest friends he;s been friends with since school, as she thinks the boys spend too much time getting drunk. They therefore always have an argument when by brother comes back to London to see his friends as she doesn’t like it when he drinks, further alienating him from his friends after moving away.

This all came to a crescendo when 3 weeks ago, they had HUGE argument after he came back to London to see my dad and some friends to watch a football game but stayed out too late. She blew up a stink as she’d been with their 5 month old baby alone for the whole day and brother said he’d be home that night. My brother ended up staying out late, missed the last train home and ended up at my parents’ house. The next morning, he woke up to her screaming down the phone, told my mum he “couldn’t do it anymore” and had decided to go back home to pack up his stuff and leave as he couldn’t handle her and the things she says anymore when she’s angry. (Apparently she says things like how she hates our family, that my mum is a witch and that she wishes she never had the baby… as just a few examples). My mum drove him the 2 hour journey home and the whole way, he had his GF on loudspeaker while they shouted at each other so my mum could hear the whole argument , and while his GF said things like “Your mum calls me names!!” And other awful things. He also told my mum in the car that none of his friends like her, that he wants to leave her and that all she does is say horrible things about our family.

When my brother & mum got there, she’d locked my brother out of the house and wouldn’t let him in until they were able to via a back door. My mum made a comment about the house being a mess (which apparently it was) to which point his GF said to my mum “are you here to try and take the baby away from me?!” . My mum was horrified as she would never do that, and just wanted to help distract the poor baby while they screamed at each other.

When my mum got home, she was so distraught and told my dad everything - to which point he said she isn’t welcome in my parents’ family home ever again.

The next day, my brother called us all up and said that everything’s fine now, and that they “just argue” and that his GF says mean things in arguments.. expecting us all to just forget things that are said about our family. He then can’t understand why my dad won’t allow her in our house and that my dad is an “asshole” and should just be able to get over it.. even though my brother is the person who decides to tell us all all of these awful things she says about us when he’d mid-argument.

After the latest big argument, my mum was then getting ignored by my brother’s GF who wasn’t letting my mum go and see her grandson as she was annoyed by the comments my mum made about the house being dirty when she’s a new mother, as well as other comments my mum has supposedly made about her which my BROTHER told her himself in an argument to back himself up and show his family agree with him. My mum was distraught not being able to see her grandson so I had to step in to help resolve things.

I ended up having a conversation directly with my brother & his girlfriend last week, and explained to them that if they are going to continue having explosive arguments, my brother needs to understand that going home to mum and dad, telling them all about it and repeating nasty things said about our family by his GF creates a huge rift and tension, and that it needs to stop, and if he wants my dad to accept her, he needs to have a conversation man to man with my dad without sweeping it all under the carpet.

My mum and I are generally willing to move on every time this happens as we don’t want to hold a grudge and ultimately we want to see our nephew/ grandson, but my dad refuses to ever accept my brother’s GF after all that’s gone on and how upset he sees my brother so often, as recently as only 2 weeks ago. He refuses to allow her into my parents’ family home and hasn’t gone to visit my brother’s new house as he refuses to be near her. He also doesn’t really ask after my brother’s son (his grandson) as he associates him with her, and is convinced they’ll break up one day and she’ll use the boy as a shield, so doesn’t want to invest time in him. On the other hand, he makes a lot of effort with our daughter, which I know my brother finds really painful.

I’m now in a situation where I am so distraught and depressed about it all. I had this vision of what my life would be like when I had a baby - imagining happy family life where she’d be surrounded by family. Especially with my daughter & nephew being only 2 weeks apart, I so desperately want us all to be able to gather at my parents’ house like we used to, but with the babies, my brother, me, my husband and my brother’s gf. But my dad absolutely refuses. If my brother was to ever come back to London and stay, he’d have to come with his son without his GF/ his little boy’s mum- and therefore decides not to come at all, meaning we’re all missing out on spending tine together at the grandparents’ house.

I’ve tried so hard to bring everyone together and after the phone call I had with my brother and his GF last week, I managed to convince my brother to have a conversation with my dad about it all (as they never do - they just ignore the situation, speak to me about it, avoid the topic when they are together and then only ever talk about football). His gf also agreed that she’d apologise for how she behaved on my family’s holiday 2 years ago and for the things she said to my dad.

Unfortunately though.. my brother chickened out and instead of meeting my dad face to face, he called him over the phone instead. It couldn’t have gone worse. My brother basically said to my dad that he appreciates he’s in the wrong for constantly relaying to our family the arguments he has with his GF and that he needs to stop that, but moving forward he’d like my dad to try and accept his GF and forget the past so we can gather at my parents’ house as the central hub with the babies without my dad making her feel uncomfortable.

My dad’s view was “how can I be nice to someone who says she hates our family, calls your mum a witch, doesn’t like your friends, and after you came running to our house for the 100th time 2 weeks ago packing your bags because you couldn’t be with her anymore as the arguments have got so bad?” - and essentially said he won’t be welcoming her with open arms any time soon.

My brother then accused my dad of being the only one who is blocking our family from being together at my parents’ and that if he’s not willing to be more open minded, he’ll never speak to him again and that that call would be the last time my dad would ever hear from him.

My dad came over to our house yesterday pretty upset by it all, as from his perspective, he’s convinced my brother isn’t really happy and that she isn’t right for him.. and can’t welcome her into our family home when she’s made such blatant hateful comments about our family in the past.

Essentially - I’m now totally lost and don’t know what to do. I feel completely in the middle and so desperately wish my dad would try and forget everything she’s said and done so that we can all spend summers together in my parents’ garden and create these happy memories all together with the babies/ cousins.. and I feel my daughter is being robbed of that. Whenever I see my parents, it’s always separately - just me, my husband, mum, dad & my daughter. Then when I see my brother, his GF and my nephew, it’s all of us at either their house without my dad, or my house.. but never all of us TRULY together, which breaks my heart and makes me so sad.

I guess I’m looking for some advice on what to do.. as I know I can’t force my dad to accept her. But when I see big families all together playing in the park, or on holidays together, or spending Christmas together, my heart breaks a little inside as I wish I had that. All I feel is loneliness. And when I think I about this upcoming Christmas, my brother & his GF have asked if we’d all like to go away somewhere together (including mum, without my dad) which I feel so incredibly torn about as I feel like I’d be choosing between them and my dad. I just want my daughter’s first Christmas to be special with no negativity. On the other hand, my dad hates Christmas and is always a big humbug on Christmas Day, so I feel as though I also want to set boundaries now we have a daughter and maybe the best thing is to just do our own thing - just me, my husband & my daughter. But then I’d feel so desperately sad that it’s got to that.

My brother is a huge part of the issue here and is at the centre of it all - refusing to accept that he’s created this by bringing every argument with his GF to us all and coming to us in desperation.. to then run back to her every time.

Maybe I should just accept that I live in fairy cuckoo land and that not every family is picture perfect.. but it devastates me on my daughter’s behalf.

For anyone still reading - thank you so much and any advice - I’d be so appreciative

I think you’re doing everything you possibly can but it’s an impossible situation.

I do understand both sides - your dad clearly knows your brother’s girlfriend is an abusive nightmare so won’t encourage the relationship at all but he doesn’t realise that he can’t force your brother to leave the relationship and your brother, until he is ready, will choose her every time.

Your brother is in a toxic relationship with all the hallmarks of total disaster written all over it. But he is trauma bonded to this woman and has a child with her to further complicate things. Until he sees it himself, there will be no reasoning with him or persuading him to leave her.

So all you can do, is try your best to see everything and hope, in time, that your brother comes to his senses and leaves the relationship or the relationship turns such a corner that it’s demonstrably different to your dad and an apology and acknowledgment of past behaviour together with an attitude overhaul is enough to mend the paternal relationship.

Annoying and upsettingly for now, it’s a waiting game and damage control I think without any obvious solution

Your dad is way way out of line.
he’s been forgiven to all intents and purposes for being an alcoholic and a shitty dad but no one else is able to change or grow according to him. Unbelievable.

can I ask what you meant when you say your mum was put at risk by going to pick her up with your dad? What do you mean by that?

your brother is pathetic brining every argument to your family but at least he’s standing by the mother of his child against his alcoholic domineering father. Good on him.

your mum threw fuel on the fire criticising their home & upsetting a new mum.

your brother and his girlfriend are twats and need to sort themselves out pronto.

my heart goes out to you.

Your dad is the only real villain in this piece - rejecting his grandchild. Utterly vile.
Im not convinced he wasn’t delighted to keep your brother out drinking and at football to ensure he didn’t make it home. He clearly blames this girl for everything and is being horrible. If I was her I would be furious too.

Yes your dad is the biggest problem here. The gf isn’t going anywhere and your brother is being forced to choose between the mother of his child and his dad. Their volatile relationship isn’t anybody else’s problem to fix. If your dad insists on digging his heels in instead of growing up and supporting his son, he will lose him.

You're overly enmeshed with your brother.

His domestic situation is abusive and toxic and he enables it. Back way, way, way off from he and gf. Tell him you don't want to hear it and spend a lot less time with him. They're not in a space to give your kid love, she'll grow up dreading their drunken scenes.

"She’s our everything and I’m very protective of her, and want to create the most loving, big happy family environment for her where she can be surrounded by love."

You can't control your family. The only person you can control is yourself.

Now. You said your dad is an alcoholic and he's drinking wine. That means he's relapsed. He's taking potshots at your bro's abusive gf after drinking. Yeah, that's really going to make for holiday memories.

You've got a lot of family toxicity in the form of alcoholism and abuse going on. Why not concentrate on your own family for a while? Do things with your husband and child and make some memories that don't involve drinking and fighting. Back off from the whole lot.

I have to be honest op, I didn’t read all that, it’s a bit too long and I got a bit bored BUT from the gist of it, I agree with this. Your dad is being completely unreasonable, he decided to hate her based on one incident years ago when she drank too much while grieving her father, terribly rich coming from an alcoholic(!) and your brother seems determined to act like a silly child, running back and forth and telling tales to one on the other between his girlfriend and your family.
I have no idea why your mum thought a sensible thing to do in an already volatile situation was to make snide comments about the cleanliness of their home (hardly just the girlfriend’s fault!) especially when said girlfriend had just had a baby. Paints a rather negative picture of your mum too to be honest if that’s her general attitude.

I dont think the relationship between your parents and your brothers family is salvageable tbh. What strikes me is why your Brothers GF was so hostile from the beginning of their relationship. I suspect she doesn't have a close family? You mentioned her DF had recently died. Do you think she resents the close relationship you have with DB and the once close relationship he had with your DP? Some people thrive on drama, maybe instead of wanting to be part of a close loving family, she wants your DB to herself and is doing her best to isolate him from your DP.
What is so sad is your nephew is being brought up in a unhealthy dynamic. There seems to be lots of drink, conflict and arguing. I'd try to get to the bottom of why GF is so hostile to you all. But as a priority, the parents need to put nephew first.

Your whole extended family sounds toxic one way or another - your father being an alcoholic who provokes his sons GF and ignores his Grandchild and seems determined to split his son and GF up, the GF who can be volatile, your brother who stirs between you all and your mother being the MIL who goes in and criticises her DILs house after she had been left holding the baby all night when your brother went out with your Dad!

The only way you will make picture perfect memories will be by stepping back from the lot of them and focusing on your DH and baby.

I’m going against the grain so far and saying I can see where your dad is coming from.

When you said you and mum are willing to just put up with this behaviour I was a bit I don’t know that I could just put up with that indefinitely and your brother and his girlfriend seem
unlikely to change and don’t even seem
to want to try.

Although by all accounts it doesn’t sound like your dad was a good dad, so I do take the point why should he be allowed to call the shots now.

However, if you do say “ok dad, have it your way, we will all socialise together, but without you….” That’s not going to work either. You and your mum can’t keep turning a blind eye to this.

Sadly you might just need to accept that you have to see them separately. Not everyone has the big family dynamic that you are craving.

You might need to consider that just as your brother runs to you to complain about his girlfriend, he may have also done the same with her, complaining about his alcoholic father, enabling mother etc. She may have disliked your family from the start based on what she has been told.

I didn’t read the whole post as so long but I was struck by you saying Thai all started 3 years ago..on the contrary I think Thai all started years ago, especially as you say your father was an alcoholic in the home

I didn't read it all as it was so long, but from the first half, I kinda see your Dad's point.

You can't fix this and you can't force these people to be the big, happy family that you would like. Even if they do fix this particular argument, which seems unlikely, they aren't going to change into different people who all love spending time making happy memories together. There will be another falling out, and another, and another. Just let that dream go, stop trying to force it to happen, and build on what you actually have. You can offer your DD lots of other great experiences with people who love her, so focus on those times and appreciating them.

All this focus on wanting things to be different, being sad over what is not etc. is taking away from you fully appreciating what you have. Don't waste precious time with your DD wishing things were different. Be 100% present, enjoying and focused on what you have.

I think your brother probably has an alcohol problem. Your dad is the source of almost all of these problems, and as for criticising the GF for asking for a lift home after drinking and "putting your mum at risk" - I wonder whether his drinking ever put your mum at risk? It's still all about him, isn't it?

The best thing you could do is hunker down with your DH and your baby and leave the rest of them to their messy, toxic lives. I include your mum in that, she is enjoying all of the drama far too much.

I agree with the pp who said you don’t know what your brother is saying to his gf about you guys.
I would step back a bit. Your brother was wrong to go out drinking and not get home to his child and gf when he was supposed to so I am not surprised she was fuming.
Your mum was wrong criticising their house.

she was shouting drunk “I don’t like your family, I want MY family” because her dad had recently died and she was struggling with the loss. My dad then took huge offence to that and told her to pull it together and that she was an embarrassment

Her dad had just died and your dad said this to her?

This was 2 years ago. Ever since then, my dad (who is in his seventies and quite traditional) has made it very clear he can’t stand her and thinks she’s wrong for my brother

my dad made rude comments after one too many glasses of wine at the table, referencing nice girls my brother should meet up with

Generally, my dad doesn’t acknowledge her and just ignores her

My mum made a comment about the house being a mess

Your parents dont come across well here at all.

The relationship between your brother and his girlfriend does not sound healthy. Full of drama and drinking and arguing. But your parents, dad in particular, are not nice to her at all.

No wonder she doesn't want to see them.

Probably they should just separate. Their relationship doesn't sound at all healthy. But that's up to them.

If your brother wants to stay with her and his parents and his gf to have any sort of relationship then the 2 of them need to drink less and stop arguing in front of other people.

Your brother needs to stop involving your parents in their arguments. He's just making their opinion of her even worse.

And you- well there's not much you can do really. See them apart from your parents and refuse to get involved in any discussions about it.

Why on earth would you contemplate going away with your brother and his girlfriend? Why would your Mum consider that? They argue, the Gf says horrible things, just don’t do it. Any if you.

I think you should step back and drop the rope.

You are trying to manufacture The Walton’s for an imaginary childhood for your Dc.

Do what actually works.

Your Dc has you and your DH, and your parents.

That’s enough.

And if you all step back and get on with your own happy get togethers as parents and grandparents and leave out this screaming mess of Db and Gf, your brother might realise what he is missing.

But in truth it sounds as if he feeds off the drama, or enjoys his status as ‘look what I have to put up with’ martyrdom.

I’d follow your Dad’s lead, and stop enabling and appeasing your Db and his horrible Gf.

“my dad made rude comments after one too many glasses of wine at the table, referencing nice girls my brother should meet up with”

If my father in law had ever done something like this… I’m not sure I’d have been very accepting tbh. That’s way way way out of line!

Like it or not, your parents need to accept that your brother’s girlfriend holds the cards here. If they want to play a big part in your brother’s life and their grandson’s life, then they need to be able to try and make things work however much they don’t like her.

Loads of families don’t “like” the partner chosen by their child! But if you want a close relationship, you get good at keeping your mouth shut, reading the room, praising how gorgeous the grandson is, and above all trying to be the bigger person/people. Going on about how they behaved absolutely terribly 3 years ago… however justified… it’s unlikely to help. (Sorry if that’s blunt).

Forget the big close happy family of your fantasies. Other than your mum, they’re all unstable abusive alcoholics. Do you really want your baby to be part of that. Work on moving away emotionally, not closer.