calling things abusive

[rah778]

(namechange) I'm in a difficult marriage. Until recently I've tended to tell myself DH isn't really to blame for things and is just 'not well' in some way. After chat with trusted friend and reading things online, I've started to feel there are elements of being in a controlling or even abusive relationship. In a nutshell, constant criticism and nothing ever being good enough, a lot of blame and deflection, a lot of ups and downs, giving and taking away for 'good' and 'bad' behaviour, isolating me, very little empathy, and no remorse shown for anything (he can never have been in the wrong, either I was in the wrong or nobody was).

But then there's always two sides. I can be very defensive and argumentative and I'm by no means a shrinking violet, so it's not like I'm a completely helpless victim, and with all the pressures of life it's hard to know for sure who's to blame for what. Reading online in bullet points of stuff that's abusive, DH definitely doesn't tick them all by any means.

In arguments recently I've said stuff about him being controlling and even used the word abusive, and to start with he seemed startled as if nothing of the sort had ever occurred to him, which I found interesting. I'm not sure there's any benefit in saying to someone they're being that way anyway, but it just came out. And it still comes up. Now if I say something like that, he'll find something I've just done and try to paint that as abusive instead, but often it's things that (especially now writing it down) seem ridiculous like 'you're abusing me by leaving me to do the bins every week' or 'you're abusing me by spending my money on (something for the kids or the house)'. And I know they're not real examples of abuse and so does he, but I think it's to deflect and to try and muddy the waters a bit whether consciously or not. Sometimes they'll be closer to being real examples like 'you're the one who's shouting', and a lot of the bad stuff he does to me are quite subtle and hard to put your finger on, so him saying that makes me doubt everything and whether I actually am causing him harm too.

I don't really know what I'm asking but wanted to get me thoughts down as it's driving me a bit crazy.

You don't need a list of stuff that says abuse to leave him. You don't need anyone's permission to do so either. Oh, and rather than breaking the family up, you're giving your kids time and space from walking on eggshells.

Ultimately, you don't like his behaviour and that's more than enough to call it a day.

You don't have to be a meek victim to be experiencing abuse. There is no such thing as a typical abuse victim.

This is exactly what I'm learning. I'm a very strong woman, professional and the breadwinner in the house. I thought I could never be an abuse "victim" (hate to think of me as such). But I'm in the same boat as you, and I think I really am (being abused).
It's very hard to put my finger on it, but I think if we are generally not the kind of people who like to play the role of victim in life (the histrionic type) and we feel abused, we probably are?
Sorry I can't be of much help, but watching this thread....

Actually, there's a particular type of controlling/abusive man who specifically does it to women who are strong and independent and "feisty" for want of a better word.

Men with covert narcissist tendencies in particular tend to go this way.

They often reel in their victims with their "sob" stories and info on their trauma - tough childhoods, abusive ex's, being conned. These sob stories are usually pitched as a "why would someone as amazing as you want someone as useless as me" or "I find it so hard to trust someone because of all the bad things that have happened to me in the past."

The strong, capable woman who is also empathetic but who perhaps has been told she can be a bit too tough or a bit too aggressive or a bit too "much", feels bad for this man. thinks that if she does anything to "trigger" his trauma, SHE is the bad person. She believes that because she has always been able to turn things around in her own life, she can help this lovely, kind man who's had a tough time turn things around for himself.

Over time, there's a slow but steady insidious creep where she questions her personality. He does things badly or not at all and she gets upset? He cringes and cries about how nothing he does is ever good enough so she feels bad for being upset - he's TRYING after all.
He doesn't follow through on a promise and she's frustrated? "Oh, that's right, you're so perfect so I guses the rest of us just have to bow to your superiority".

And of course, he'll be subtly re-inforcing this externally with friends or family, "oh, I know, I can never do it well enough for Jenny. She's just So GOOD at everyhing. haha, I guess I should just be grateeful she keeps me around."

At the same time, he starts to make her world smaller.

"Oh, I just don't understand - why do you need to have male friends when you have me? Can't you see how inappropriate that is and how it makes me feel when you're out with your alpha mates?"

"Are you really going out with the girls AGAIn? My ex used to do that, but it was just an excuse to flirt with other men. I guess one day you just won't come back.... <sad face>"

"Oh, you're going drinking with Mary? I guess you'll come back drunk and a complete mess? She's such a bad influence on you. I can't believe a woman who is supposed to be classy can do things like that. You better hope none of your work mates ever see you out and about."

He calls and texts when you're not with him or tells you he can't cope with the children alone so you have to stay home becuase otherwise they will suffer. But you're not allowed to be upset about that. because HE is the victim who can't handle his children or his worry that you might get hurt.

And it all WORKS becuase the woman is used to being told by society, by family, by friends etc that she's a lot, that she's got high standards, that she is super competent with an underlying message that she's unreasonable.

So much resonates with my experience!
Thank you for posting!

Going a bit against the grain here. I think people in relationships quite often fall into toxic behavioural patterns, perhaps learned in childhood or just as a defence mechanism. If you bullet point behaviour, like “on Monday I asked you to do something and you muttered under your breath and sulked” it can easily fall into “abusive” if you look up anything that talks about controlling or narcissistic behaviour. I just think people and relationships are more complex than that and two people might be contributing to an atmosphere that has become unhealthy without either of them being abusers.

For me, abuse leaves you feeling with a sense of no control and like your walking on eggshells. There also has to be a power imbalance.

I’ve noticed on Mumsnet that behaviour is often deemed “abusive” but I think in legal terms you can probably have a bit of a shit relationship that doesn’t fit that term. And I think most people in bad relationships probably are in them because of toxic behavioural patterns of one or both spouses

What you are explaining sounds a lot like my (ex) marriage. When I finally started going to therapy, after twenty five yeas of marriage, therapist immediately labelled some of his behaviour as abusive, and I remember being taken aback. I grew up with a very abusive father, but he was verbally and physically abusive to my mother and my ex, was the opposite. He never raised his voice, cursed, or hit me, so I guess, this confused me into thinking this was not abuse.

However, I also remember my therapist telling me this: "I see that you are trying to find reasons why you should leave your husband, but that is not necessary, the fact that you want to is enough." I felt so much better after this. Basically what this means is, your marriage is not working, for whatever reason, and you are not happy. It is ok to leave. Good luck OP!