Need some perspective

[JustanothersunnyFriday]

NC as possibly outing. Sorry it's so long. Dh has been saying for some months, possibly longer, that he hates his job, finds being a parent difficult and thinks our relationship is crap. We've been together about 20 years, two children who have just finished GCSEs and 'A' levels.

He has done nothing about looking for another job, but has asked that we go to couples therapy. I asked if we could put this on hold to get the children through their exams, to which he agreed.

The morning after the last exam, he told me that he doesn't want to come on holiday (I booked our first non-school holiday in January. He let me book it, then the next day told me that he didn't want to go. No suggestion of what else we could do instead) due to anxiety. I asked him what he was anxious about and it is things like our dd getting into a state about insects (she does at home too, once insect is removed she's okay).

He knew that I was planning to meet our children after work in 30 degrees to do some shopping for prom. This would not be my preference - if it was down to me, it would have been sorted weeks ago but there we are, often as a parent even with older children you have to do things that you don't want to.

I asked for a bit of a breather between the exams finishing, prom stress and the next lot of demands on me. I've found the last few months extremely stressful (I also started a new job) and dh has said several times over the last week that it's all been surprisingly unstressful. That'll be because I've been managing all the stress and strong feelings.

I went to work and he sent me a text about couples therapy. I said that I was happy for him to look into it, but in the meantime, could we focus on the basics? He then got into a massive row with our ds (I know because he sent me numerous texts about it while I was at work), and decided to take the afternoon off sick to do some cleaning.

So, he knows what 'the basics' are. He knows that the division of labour in the household is very uneven and that this is an issue for me and has been for many years. Countless conversations/arguments about it, he makes a bit of an effort for a few days then we're back to square one.

Am I wrong? My feeling is that I'd want to spend more time with him and feel more positively towards him if I felt like we were running the house and attending to the children together. I also find him repeatedly telling me how unhappy he is, but citing couples therapy as the only solution (not him looking for another job or pulling his weight around the house) really difficult. He's on antidepressants and in therapy (so am I, plus HRT as menopausal) and I honestly now feel that if his current life makes him so unhappy, he can go and make a life for himself somewhere that makes him happier. I cannot provide anymore than I have and do.

Not sure what sort of responses I'm hoping for. I am happy to go to couples therapy but would like a bit of a breather to process end of exams, sort out kids for prom, prep for holiday and generally move down a gear for a bit.

Thanks if you got this far!

Do you actually want to stay married to him…

He's asked you twice to start couples therapy and you've said "not now".

There'll always be life reasons not to start it, birthdays, Christmas, holidays etc. Do you really want to save your marriage or are you done?

I'd be making the counselling a priority not shoving it down the to do list after dress and shoe shopping.

If you want to stay together, couples therapy could be a good way to raise the unequal balance of tasks and mental load. He’s not going to address this himself.
If you don’t, now is a good time to separate since exams are over with.

Is he even worth all that effort? I think in your position I’d be refusing couples therapy and looking into divorce instead- he doesn’t sound like he brings much to the table from what you’re saying.

I don't know if you are willing to keep investing in your relationship or not. And to be clear, It's perfectly okay if you'd decide you're done with it.
But if you're not done and you want to still be married, you probably shouldn't keep putting off couples counseling, and you really shouldn't be making your willingness to go into therapy conditional to your husband fulfilling certain of your wishes first.

Now, I'm not saying the problems you're facing aren't problems. An unfair division of the household and the mental load is a huge burden, and I agree 100% that you deserve a real effort from him. But do you know what happens to be a great place to start addessing these issues is? You guessed it! Couples counseling!
It seems to me that you have a husband who wants to work on your marriage. And he's offering you a platform where you too can get your problems out in the open, with a neutral party there to facilitate the tough conversations. Why are you not jumping on this opportunity?

There will always be something. My soon to be ex husband made numerous excuses about not wanting to go to couples therapy. By the time we got there, it was too late. You need to decide whether you want to save things. You’re obviously both unhappy. If you don’t do something about it then there won’t be anything left to save but it sounds like you don’t really care?

Thanks all. I haven't jumped at the opportunity for couples therapy because I've been too preoccupied with keeping the children on an even keel, starting a new job and generally running the show at home. I need a bit of headspace. I'm struggling with the contradiction that he wants our relationship to work, but is very blatant about the fact that he doesn't want to go on holiday with me.

I see what you mean about couples therapy being the place to explore these issues. If he'd had even left it a couple of days after the exams finished, I would feel more receptive. At the moment, it just feels like another demand on me. I'm shattered.

Tbh you’d potentially have to wait a couple of weeks to get started anyway once you’ve found a therapist so you’ll get a bit of headspace. I see what you mean about the holiday but I guess it’s his way of saying he’s really reached a low point. (I’m not defending him btw, it sounds like you’ve been carrying the load for a long time).
by the time we started relate I couldn’t really be fucked and I was just going through the motions and it was horrible but it cemented my decision to give up and get divorced.

It is interesting - I have noted that in the main if women have problems they seek solutions; if men have problems they let the women look for solutions.

So - there are tings he could do, like looking for a new job for instance, or sharing home and holiday life, or pulling his weight at home - all of which might ease things. But no, he is not looking for a new job or taking any initiative over all this.

He sees the solution as couples therapy - a space where he can offload his dissatisfactions with you and with family life - instead of getting up off his arse and being proactive about change - change that has to come from him, as he is the one complaining.

I think he needs to address his depression more actively, either through a return to the GP or adding in some therapy for himself. If you both cart your depression problems with you to couples therapy it will not be the solution.

The fact that he does not want to holiday with you all is a big orange flag at the very least. Lolling about at home and navel gazing will make him feel worse - or do you think he has other plans for that time?

There is a possibility that he is happy being unhappy. It gives him leverage to not carry his share of the load whilst you run around being superwoman because "he's unhappy" and you are, even subconsciously, alleviating his load so that he can be happy.

Not going on holiday? Invite a friend or family member and go and enjoy it.

Yes, couples therapy, but make sure the therapist is a good fit. If you want solutions then look for one that offers solution focussed. If you want a reflective space and to understand how childhood impacts you both then go for psychoanalysis.

Thanks again. He is going to come on holiday - he thought it helpful that he share his anxiety with me rather than carrying it alone. This is very typical of our relationship.

He is actually in therapy - he sent me a link to a couples therapist that his therapist recommended. I will let him know this weekend that I'm happy for him to book an appointment. I don't know whether I want to still stay married to him - I definitely don't want to rock the boat before the children are older, I do know that. But can see what people are saying that if you leave couples therapy too late, it's a lost cause.

Thanks again.

Update. Long talk last night and it transpires that he belives that I had an affair/sexual encounter with an old friend years ago. He sent me a text about it at the time - I can't and cannot understand when I'm meant to have had this fling and he doesn't know either.

The bottom line is that he doesn't trust me. Other than tell the truth (no, I have no had any sort of sexual encounter since we've been together) I don't know what to do. He thinks that we need to find a way to separate and tbh if he doesn't trust me, I don't know what else we can do.

Beyond shocked.

I'm so sorry for everything that is happening to you; of course you feel beyond shocked.
Do you think he is looking to find an excuse to end things? The "affair" sounds obviously made up, like he might be using it to ease his conscience.

Perhaps he has known for some time that he wants an out?
I hate to say it, but prepare for the worst and gather some support for yourself.

Sounds like a convenient excuse to end things without it being his fault especially as this is the first you’ve heard about it.

Thank you. I honestly don't know what to think. When we were speaking last night, it felt like he hated me. Which, if you believe that someone has been unfaithful, is fair enough I suppose. Except it's not true.

I don't think the 'affair' is made up in the sense that he's saying it just because he wants to end things. He truly believes it. He gave some examples that, in his mind, add credence to his belief ie we went on a walk with friends and this friend was there and I didn't really talk to him (the friend). I can't remember - this person is part of a large group of friends and at events I usually catch up with him but not always, I guess. I don't think about this friend, other than when I see him and ask how things are iykwim. He's a very old partner, from a long time ago, but that's it. There hasn't been anything between us for many, many years.

It's all in his mind, but it's there and there's nothing I can do about it.

The two friends I would like to call to speak to aren't around. Dh has been out all day and will be this evening. I've been cleaning the house and prepping for the holiday we may or may not go on and supporting our eldest with a panic attack (about something different).

I feel sick and don't know what to do.

He’s whining and has used fabrication to end the marriage. As you’ve been so tolerant and reasonable he’s actually spelled it out

He thinks that we need to find a way to separate.

He’s been waiting for the DC to finish exams. So sorry.

Head high. Don’t crumble. See advantages.

No, I'm not going to crumble, but I don't want to do this to the children. He doesn't either, he says, but why would you want to stay with someone who you truly believed had been unfaitful.

For background, both of our fathers left our mothers and neither woman really recovered even after decades. His father walked out when he was 18 (the same as our eldest is now), so I guess that may be coming.

Again, I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

If you were a valued friend of mine, and we were in a cafe or pub talking about this, I would hold your hand across the table and say this. (Obviously I don't know either of you, so feel free to take it with a pinch of salt.)
He has lived with you for 20 years. He knows you have had no time or inclination to get involved with someone else. If he had perhaps been seeing someone else, would it make him feel better to turn his enormous guilt back on to you, and confuse you so badly that you don't know which way is 'up'? It's a very rare man indeed that will contemplate leaving a comfortable home, a woman that has held his life together, and his children, if he hasn't already got somewhere else to go.
I hope I'm wrong. X

"It's a very rare man indeed that will contemplate leaving a comfortable home, a woman that has held his life together, and his children, if he hasn't already got somewhere else to go."

This. I'm pretty sure he hasn't got anywhere else to go, so his plan as of this evening is to stay living here as he doesn't want to leave the children and act like the victim of an affair, which is completely in his head.

Fuck that.

Just reading your first one or two posts here about the way your husband was asking for you to go to couple’s therapy - using somewhat contrived reasons and not looking for professional help for his own real problems - I already wondered if I could hear The Script playing out in his words. From your later posts I’m confident that I can.

Thought I'd update as I've just found a lovely DM that I hadn't seen - thanks again to the sender. The stuff about The Script is really interesting and he has been moving in that direction, yes. We've had a number of frank and angry exchanges which have lanced the boil, as a friend of mine put it. We are in a bit of a better space now. No more mention of me having an affair, less victimhood on his behalf, pulling his weight a bit more. Both been making more of an effort for us to spend time together as well.

We have an apt for couples therapy next week. I do think this is a good thing to do, it just felt a bit much a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks again for the support and waking me up a bit.

my guess is his head has been turned and he is trying to say that you had an affair as he is the one who did, or is thinking about it

you should go to couples therapy and try to take some time off to really stop and
look around you. You are stressed out of your head and just trying to plough on.

I’d advise you to look after yourself.

He needs to figure out what he wants. There's going to be things that he will obviously not like. If my wife kept complaining about being unhappy, I'd have a sit down with her and see where she I'd coming from.

This.