Let down again by my DM. How to move forwards?

[Mydogiscuter]

I've name changed for this as it is very outing. Sorry this will be very long.

I have a complicated relationship with my mother, who is nearing 80. She left me at the age of 14 with my alcoholic, emotionally abusive father (failed to pick me up from a school residential trip actually) and disappeared for two weeks. She never prioritised my needs and there were periods in my teenage years where there was no accomodation for me. I moved in with my then boyfriend's parents at the age of 17. From the age of 15 I was pretty much financially independent of her. She has continued to let me down ever since. It's not that she does things which are malicious more that she is so insanely selfish, it does not occur to her to put the needs of others first or even consider them.

She lives local to me but I don't see her regularly or speak to her regularly. There is no real point - she shows no interest in my life nor that of her grandchildren. She chooses to live a certain way which alienates us (she's a hoarder and her house is dirty and disgusting) but won't have a conversation about that. In any kind of confrontational situation she will shut down. I can go months without talking to her and she wouldn't ever consider to make the effort to contact me.

Along with the emotional side of things she also has an ability to turn everything to shit. She will always try and find "the bargain" version of everything or do everything on the cheap which ultimately results myself and my sister having to sort things out when a crisis occurs. She buries her head in the sand until everything is ten times worse and then more complicated to sort out.

She is terrible with money. My parents business went bankrupt when we were children. She never opened any letters and got into lots of debt (even went to prison for two weeks for failing to respond to a court summons as a civil offence). The house was repossessed and as far as I am aware she is on an IVA. She is still a compulsive buyer - her house is rammed full of purchases. Despite this she is (or should have) a relatively comfortable income. She receives a full state pension along with a small private pension and my now deceased step-father's pension. It is not a huge amount but she lives in a brand new council bungalow (which she has managed to trash already since she moved in 3 years ago) with few outgoings so she is comfortable. In fact she is currently enjoying a 2 week holiday abroad in a private villa with it's own pool.

Three years ago she received an inheritance of around 50k. Not a huge amount but enough to support the extras she needs (or so you would think). She bought a car, naturally off a dodgy local guy she knows, on the cheap, which has now cost her a significant amount to repair. She went on a holiday but as far as I can see there is nothing else to show for this money.

Along side this inheritance, another 50k was put aside into trust for any future care needs. My step-father did this as he didn't trust her with money and was worried about her capacity to financially manage these in the future (he suspected a potential gambling problem). My DH, BIL and her are all trustees. Technically, money can not be withdrawn without the agreement of all the trustees. About three months ago she asked them to withdraw money. She said she needed it for her MOT. She didn't have the conversation with me, only my DH and BIL who both said they would talk about it. To me this money is not meant for that. She should have enough money from her own pot and monthly income to cover this normal life expense. My concern is that she will whittle away this money and when the time comes, there will be nothing left and yet again my sister and I will be expected to pick up the pieces and sort it out. This money is not hers, it was not given to her.

Our intention (mine and dsis) was to have this conversation with her and to understand where her money has gone. Like I said though, this is tricky as she shuts down in any kind of conversation where she feels under threat. For whatever reason, we have not been able to meet up all together so the conversation hasn't happened yet (dsis lives some distance away). She had stopped mentioning the money too and has now gone on holiday for nearly 3 weeks expecting me to look after her cat in her shit hole of a house (she had wanted my DC to stay there but understandably they said no although she will have no insight as to why).

Yesterday we realised that she had withdrawn £1000 from the trust account, in secret, without the permission of anyone else (apparently with it being on line, she can do this although it "is not in the spirit of the account"). I am so livid. From my perspective, this is not her money and she has stolen it. This was one thing we could control so that, when the inevitable happens and everything goes tits up , it wouldn't necessarily cost us and we would be able to manage things like normal people.

I am so angry at her deception. She 100% knows this was wrong. She is hiding something and rather than having any lines of communication, she does what she always does, hides and shuts down. Her ability to ruin things is quite incredible. I actually hate her.

I have two weeks to wait until she comes home. I have always trodden on egg shells around her as I know it is pointless any other way (nothing ever changes, she has no insight to her own behaviour or certainly makes no indication that she does) but actually I will confront her this time and she will know how angry I am. The issue with this is that she will walk away and that will be then end of our relationship. I will not reach out again and I am happy to not have to deal with her again. However, I also know that I will be left feeling guilty and shit.

Not really sure why I have posted this as it's not really a solvable problem but it's been cathartic to write it down. Apologies for the length of post!

How has your Mum managed to withdrawal money from the Trust without all three Trustees permission? How has she been able to access the account, let alone withdrawal money?! How do you not know that she hasn't been doing this for sometime? I think you need a conversation with the bank and possibly a solicitor, because she shouldn't be able to withdrawal money from the account!! The fact she can, is worrying, and perhaps the money isn't as secure as you think it is. Take the opportunity to do this now whilst she is away.

I’ve gone no contact with my mum, for slightly different reasons but like you, she has only ever caused trouble & pain. I don’t have any answers for you but recommend no contact if she’s having a detrimental impact on your life and wellbeing. The guilt fades and as you recover you begin to see their behaviour more objectively than emotionally. I try to be a tolerant & kind person, but some people repeatedly chew you up and spit you out without any love or care. Sadly, sometimes this includes blood relatives or parents and we’re pressured by society to put up with it because they're family’. Sounds like you’ve tried again and again, even after her previous behaviour and nothing will change. Don’t feel guilty if you decide you need to let her go, she’s caused this situation, not you. I now have peace and realise I can’t make sense of my mum’s behaviour. Letting go of it has been a huge relief.

Sassybooklover

The money is in an online account. My DH and BIL are the main account holders and she is a third name. It has not been set up as an official trust account as the amount would not be worth it and we needed to cash the cheque before it expired. We have not that long been in receipt of the money (ironically because she used a cheap online solicitor service who became uncontactable and gave shit advice). We also had the issue that neither DH and BIL want to be linked to her financially because of her previous history with money. Essentially this was just a holding bay for the money until we figured out where to safely put it as an Investment and manage it properly.

Bobthepotplant

Thank you. I have really disassociated for the last couple of years. I helped to care for my stepfather in his dying weeks. I had to clear her hoarder house so they had room for a bed for him and then I had to clear and sort their house out when it sold all whilst I was recovering from my own hysterectomy which I didn't tell her about (because why would I). When she moved to a new bungalow (with our help) and it was clean and tidy, I'd hoped it would be the start of a change, she always blamed the clutter on my SF. It wasn't. Gradually the bungalow accumulated stuff and is now filthy and revolting. This is the pattern, over and over so I have distanced myself. I am however, her only family nearby and she is estranged from the rest except my dsis. Again, they have never fallen out, it's just that she makes no effort with anyone. She has one friend who she is very close to and that is all she seemingly needs.

Whilst she is currently in relatively good health, what I find hard to reconcile, is that when she goes downhill, she will literally have noone.

I can’t help you with your current situation but I just wanted to encourage you to access counselling. I haven’t seen my mum for many years after an abusive childhood and I’m slowly finally healing with the help of counselling.

It’s very lonely to be in your situation and I really feel for you.

(Edited - Oh, while I was thinking about this you gave some more information, sorry!) I’ll leave the comment anyway.

another 50k was put aside into trust for any future care needs. My step-father did this as he didn't trust her with money and was worried about her capacity to financially manage these in the future (he suspected a potential gambling problem). My DH, BIL and her are all trustees. Technically, money can not be withdrawn without the agreement of all the trustees

Yesterday we realised that she had withdrawn £1000 from the trust account, in secret, without the permission of anyone else (apparently with it being on line, she can do this although it "is not in the spirit of the account")

Who set this up? Was it done with a solicitor? I’d be asking the bank more about this, sounds like someone has failed somewhere.

ThisIsMyYearToFindMyself

When my DM and SF did their Wills she used a cheap online service and had really bad advice around wording. The same was true of the solicitors when the house sold. I am not entirely sure of the details of it but the wording of the will complicated matters and I'm not sure whether a legal trust was required. However, SF was explicit in his wishes in that she was not to have control of the money but it could be used for her care. In the event it wasn't used it would be split between myself and my sister and his estranged children

When the house sold, the cheque was made out to the three trustees. They had to reissue it once as it had expired before it was cashed. It was coming close to expiring again so, on advice of the bank, DH and DBIL set up a joint account with DM named as a third party meaning that they would not be linked to her. I thought they couldn't make online transactions but it appears that this is not the case.

I just read. It’s horrible situation for you and I am so sorry for what you have gone through as you sound a good person but I would not bother anymore. Don’t contact her, don’t feel guilty, don’t clean and sort her house when she passes on in future, don’t get on with her incase. She is a selfish old lady self centred who is not worth your energy. If any relatives say we need help maximum I would do is share pay for a house clearing company on her future demise.

@Mydogiscuter I agree with @Lostworldss counselling can really help.

I was lucky in that I had an older friend who I use to volunteer on a group allotment with, who was also a mediation counsellor by trade. He had also grown up with an abusive mother but didn’t know my family of origin which helped him to be objective. So unofficial counselling as such. I’ll always be eternally grateful for his help and wise words. Sometimes just verbally offloading and someone understanding & validating your feelings makes all the difference. Talking to him felt like a huge load had been lifted which I’d carried alone since early childhood. But most importantly it helped me to let go and move forwards with my life, rather than looking back. Everyone’s case is different, in mine my mother had been severely physically abusive when I was a child, which continued into toxic & cruel emotional abuse as I became an adult so it was beyond repair. But counselling may help you to cope with the emotional burden of your DM going forwards without that drastic step or give you tools to manage her. Think it helps to find a counsellor who specialises or has experienced a dysfunctional childhood themselves though. x

The fact that she will have no one is not your fault or issue, get rid of that horrible feeling when you think about that and you’ll find it easier to withdraw. Whether that’s through counselling or reading or listening to podcasts it doesn’t really matter how you do it but I’d say it’s vital otherwise you’ll always be trauma bonded to her and go back and she’ll continue to behave as she always has.

She never worried about you so don’t worry about her.
Her loss and I am very sad for you as you deserve a good mum but unfortunately that’s not what you got. I hope you have other more worthy relatives and friends who you can channel your good energy into. I don’t get why some people have children?

Thank you. I'm generally pretty emotionally resilient. Over the years, I've tried to put myself in a position where she can't disappoint me anymore. I've moved away from contact unless it was on my terms. My expectations are so low and I had come to terms with her choices. I have had counselling previously but it's not for me. I do listen to a lot of podcasts and I do talk all this through with my sister.

She also has another, quite significant asset (a house abroad in a desirable location) which again, because she is utterly shit is now worth half to her than what it was 15 years ago but still at least £150k. She was going to sign this over to my sister and I because it's a complicated situation after her failure to manage it before. However, now she knows how much it is worth she wants to sort it herself. Which is fine, it's hers to manage except that I've already had to gut the damn place after she filled it full of crap. I've spoken to solicitors and have their recommended course of action but she won't take this. She'll go for a quick sale and lose out on quite a bit of money. That is her prerogative. Frustrating yes but it's not my house and not my money (fwiw my sister and I were going give her any money which came from the property). But essentially when it all gets complicated, my sister and I will be required to step in and sort it out. I had resigned myself to this.

I just didn't think she could disappoint any more. I am so angry with her and I'm so angry with myself that this has had such an effect on me.

If your husband and BIL didn’t think it was as worth setting up a trust, why didn’t they set up the joint account they have with your mother so that withdrawals required the signatures of the 3 account holders.

Did they know your stepfather had named them as trustees when he wrote his will?

If the money doesn’t belong to your mother, who does it belong to?

Lurkingandlearning
In terms of the account, that was my understanding but seemingly not. When I spoke to BIL last night he suggested that it was not in "the spirit of the account" rather than not allowed explicitly. This is something I will need to check as I helped look into setting up an account and that was certainly how I'd understood it

They did know they were executors and the will stated that the money had to used with the permission of all three. The cheque was issued in all their names. They did take legal advice but I'm not sure of the conclusion. Other than the Will itself there is no other documentation as far as I am aware that relates to a trust.

Could DH and BIL set up a new account with only their names on it and move the remaining funds into it to preserve them? At least then she would have no means of removing money and the fund can sit there till needed?

‘I just didn't think she could disappoint any more. I am so angry with her and I'm so angry with myself that this has had such an effect on me.’

I found it easier when I finally accepted my mum was never going to change and would always be worse than I ever anticipated, whether that be caused by mental illness or bad behaviour. I suppose I learnt to accept the worst from her. Also don’t blame yourself for being frustrated at her bad behaviour, that’s because you’re normal. I’d probably step back from here on in and leave her to it. She’s made her bed, she’ll now have to lie in it. If she ends up in a mess it’s of her making, she won’t allow you to help. Regarding her financial stuff, if you want/can secure some of the money, might be worth talking to a solicitor to see if it’s possible.Good luck x

Sorry to come back to this thread but seemed pointless starting a new one.

Once we realised she had taken the initial 1k we had a group discussion (DH, BIL, DSIs and me) around what approach to take going forwards. I wanted to move the money immediately to stop her from taking anymore. DH and BIL were worried about the impact on relationships and gave her the benefit of the doubt with a view to meeting up with her as soon as she was back. More fool them.

She came home on Tuesday and has subsequently withdrawn £23k. They have moved the rest now so that she can't touch it.

I have confronted her this morning. As always, she turns it around on other people and how we're to blame for not giving her money, how she was in debt and needed to pay it off. Nevermind that she's just spent 2 weeks abroad in a villa with a pool with a friend. Nevermind that her house if full of pointless purchases that she doesn't need.

I brought up that her house is filthy and a hovel. She told me that she was getting a cleaner. I laughed in her face and said a cleaner wouldn't be able to clean around all the shit she's got in there. She said she was making changes, that she's getting rid of it all. I said that I'd already done that for her multiple times but she just refills it. She went on to accuse us of not caring about her. I just pointed out to her that she came round yesterday after her holiday and did not ask after one single member of my family. Then I left.

I have messaged her since and said that she can come around tonight but she needs to bring statements and paperwork. I said I will help her but I'm not going to unless she is transparent. She never fails to disappoint and stoop lower

Sorry OP, you are going through a hard time again with your mother. I do want to say that while you may think you are holding her at a distance emotionally, I do not believe this is the case. You are heavily emotionally enmeshed with your mother and your writing shows your anger towards her. Both are understandable.

You need to accept she will not change and she is not your problem. How clean or cluttered her home is not your concern. How much she spends is not your problem. Just let her spend what she wants - she’s draining the fucking life out of you. When the shit hits the fan direct her to social care - this is what it is for I am afraid. She is nearing 80 - it’s not going to change. Step away.

I agree with @Bobthepotplant ‘s excellent post.

Teach yourself—allow yourself—to care less and kess. Refyse to do work on her assets (the houses) or for her security. I daresay that its extra painful as it reminds you if what a terrible parent she was to you and the way she focused on herself or her things. She has always been a cut rate scrounger who values herself and her money more than her children or partners. Whenever you are called upon to care for her or her assets—especially as she lies and manipulates to go around you after commandeering your labour you must feel used and abandoned again.

Try caring less and killing hope that this time will be different. It never will.

• Read Melodie Beattie’s Codependent no more . You are showing real signs if codependency. You can overcome this.

Sorry you’ve had this. I really would recommend walking away at this point. I don’t think she or it will get any better. People like that are only guaranteed to do one thing, disappoint you again and again. You deserve better.

Your step-father's will was a poisoned chalice as the financial arrangements that he set up have tied you to your mother until she dies.

You and your DH need to resign from being trustees and just leave your mum to it. She can spend it all and keep hoarding and you don't need to know anything about it. If other people, e.g. your sister and BIL try and drag you back in, just refuse.

Why are you doing this? Why do you keep going back for more? The same thing happens over and over again, and you appear to learn nothing.

Your mother is who she is and she is not going to change. how you respond to her is the only thing you can control. the only boundaries you can put in place are your own. Despite what you say, you are absolutely emotionally involved: the anger, disappointment, frustration that comes from your posts is palpable. Those are not the words of someone who has been able to detach from a situation.

are your reasons for maintaining involvement partly financial? Are you and your sister expecting some kind of inheritance? Not judging at all, but if so it’s another thing that keeps you coming back and trying to manage the situation rather than just walking away. If you can accept that it’s her money / asset, to do what she wants with, that’s one less reason to be sucked in.

Just to add, when it comes to keeping money back for future care needs, go and read some of the posts on the Elderly Parents board and you will quickly realise that 50k doesn’t go far. All this angst over a sum that would barely cover 6 months of nursing care. It was a well intentioned gesture for your step father to try and put some money aside for this: it’s a drop in the ocean of potential care costs. Since your DH and BIL aren’t actually trustees (except in spirit) they and you can walk away from this mess.

do any of you have POA for your mother? This is the only legal arrangement that allows you to override her decisions - and then only if she has demonstrably lost capacity (not the same as making stupid choices).

Oh OP you are flogging a dead horse with her.

Stop engaging with her. Just have superficial chats if you need contact. It feels like you are still trying to change things for her and it's never going to happen.

If she asks you to do something say No for a change.

Be glad you're not a trustee and just go no contact?

I agree with everyone else. You should just walk away. She won't change.