Counselling/therapy ending relationship

[Cofeeandagoodbook]

Long time mumsnetter changed username so my H doesn't know this is me.

Been in relationship for 20 plus yrs. Married for 10 plus yrs. Have kids, primary aged. Relationship not been good for a while, arguing, anger, unfair division of labour, controlling behaviour, I/we are never 'enough', I have (bent and twisted) trying to make it work. Red flags from the start really. He hasn't changed and if anything is getting worse.

After a bad outburst of his, I am certain I want us to split and told him I am thinking along these lines, but not 100pc. Living in same house, separate beds. I am trying to get finances sorted.

We need counselling/therapy to support discussions to move out of this limbo. I can't talk to him, every conversation is exhausting and circular and never goes anywhere. I won't take the kids and leave, they adore him and doubt they'd go. I won't go without them. I doubt he'll move out. Being very Disney dad right now. It needs to be done carefully.

Should neither of us have local family. I have no one locally I could stay with.

Ridiculously I am stuck on the how to find a professional to help. Do I need marriage therapy? A counsellor? Psychotherapist?

Solicitors. You need solicitors.

You're trying to resolve the relationship by yourself but that's impossible. He needs to want to work on the relationship with you.

It sounds like you're at loggerheads because he refuses to compromise. I suggest you get counselling for yourself.

I am looking for a therapist to support discussions about the end of a relationship amicably. Putting kids first etc.

He has agreed to go to therapy after 4 years of asking. I have said it's likely too late to save the relationship. He will try and guilt trip me over staying for the kids but I don't agree that's an option.

He will not be amicable because he is abusive. He may well agreed to counselling but joint counselling is not recommended where there is abuse of any type in the relationship. Therefore joint counselling is a non starter.

And I agree you need solicitors.

A counsellor could help you sort out your feelings by offering you a safe space to talk. Find one on counselling directory who is BACP registered and has lots of experience.
Psychotherapists have more training and are more expensive and are probably better for more serious issues, if you feel your relationship issues are rooted in eg childhood issues this might be the way forward.
Would he be up for going to relationship counselling? That would be a good place to have conversations with him if you can't talk to him usually and to make separating from him easier.

Is he manipulating your kids? Do you have any concerns about his behaviour towards them?

I don't think kids at get a choice of who they live with at their age. Who is the main carer for them?

It sounds like what you need is mediation rather than therapy.

I think if he's agreed to counselling, then go. Finding a way to communicate practically would be well worth it.

If you do consider therapy or club, go on your own. You need to be able to talk in both a calm and safe environment.

It sounds like you are looking for someone to get him to come round to your way of thinking about how this separation should go ? Tbh I think you would be wasting your money and it would be better spent in divorcing. As for the staying in the same house well that's going to be a nightmare isn't it ? If you are certain you want to divorce then get on with it. I know someone like this and she started this 6 years ago and is still living like this. What a waste of a life.

I am looking for to have sensible conversations and currently feel this is impossible when it's just the two of us. I fear how vindictive he will be and he has no qualms in talking to me rudely I'm front of others. What others think seems most important to him.

Privately he has admitted he's been a terrible husband, controlling and unkind. Thing is it's all too late.

I have no evidence he is manipulating the children but I don't trust him not to. I do have concerns about how he treats our eldest, he is far too hard on him, shames him sometimes.

Main carer. Probably me. We both work full time. He travels quite a bit for work. When he is here we split drops and pick ups. I do all of the contact with school and nursery, sen conversations, arranging support, childcare, after school clubs, general 'care' for kids.

You will never be able to have a sensible conversation with him because a) he is at heart abusive, b) he has admitted as much to you and c) you are not emotionally safe enough to embark on any joint counselling with him. Joint counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. Mediation is never recommended either in abusive relationships.

I would also assume he does not talk to his work colleagues like he does to you all. No, this abuse of you all is for you as his family unit.

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?.
You need support from the likes of Womens Aid and the Rights of Women in order to leave safely. You cannot go on like this and he's already picking on your eldest child and that is unacceptable behaviour.

If he is that bothered about his family he would never have abused you and in turn your children in the first place. All this man cares about is his own self and he remains very much volatile. I also doubt very much he will see his children all that often going forward because they will interfere with his social life and working time.

And if you do split make a complete and clean break of it.

Trying to protect your kids from his abuses of you and in turn they is impossible if you are all living under the same roof.

Seek legal advice asap if you have not already done so; knowledge here is power.

I would say if you are wanting to look at how to end things amicably then it's mediation you need and then a solicitor.

I had solo counselling towards the end of my marriage and that clarified to me that I was almost at the end. I'd say it could be valuable for you to help you process what has led to this and make you stronger going forwards into what might come next.
The marriage counselling was a last resort for me, but didn't change the outcome.

Like you, I had raised marriage counselling several times over the years and pushed for it the year before we split. He refused and said he didn't feel comfortable talking in that way so I asked for him to think of an alternative to try and save our marriage..... He did nothing.
He only agreed to counselling a year later when it became an ultimatum. By that point it was really too late, but weirdly, even though the marriage counselling revealed that I couldn't give him what he decided he needed for the marriage to continue, he still didn't accept the end and I had to be the one to call it.

What if you can't get to have a sensible conversation with him? Maybe you don't need a conversation, it sounds like he doesn't listen to you and is unlikely to agree to anything. Have you thought about what you would like to happen? You don't need his agreement to divorce him.
The way you describe it seems like it will be impossible to find a solution. Why you think the kids wouldn't leave with you?

@Cofeeandagoodbook so what if he is more restrained or polite in a conversation where another person is present ? Do you think he is going to change? Do you think he is going to carry this over into divorce negotiations?
Your last post doesn't make sense - " I am looking to have sensible conversations and currently feel this is impossible when it's just the two of us " but then you say " he has no qualms in talking to me rudely in front of others" . So 🤷‍♀️

@Imsososohungry I think I am trying to get him to agree we should end this so that I am not the villain in all of this. I am also scared of being the one to make the decision and scared of saying it. It is hard for me to do and I have only recently allowed myself to truly realise how dreadful this relationship really is. I seem to be gaslighting myself a bit, second guessing it it's a bad as I make out.

I wouldn't want to make the kids leave their home. My eldest is autistic and it would be just dreadful for him. So unsettling.

What I would like is for him to leave, rent locally until we have a plan for the house. I would like to have my own space and some time to recover and become myself.

@justtaketheeffingpicture yep appreciate that doesn't make sense. To explain. We have previously have counselling many years ago and it was helpful to have some of his thoughts challenged openly.
He has recently made horrid jibes at me in front of his friends, in this circumstance the power is imbalanced and I think he feels supported by his people.

I would get therapy for yourself. I can’t say how incredibly validating it is to have someone listen to what you are thinking and feeling and tell you that it’s okay to think and feel that way. It will help boost your confidence and clarify a way forward.

I wouldn’t waste my time on couples therapy. Based on my own experience trying to drag someone kicking and screaming into family therapy (my mum, not my lovely Dh), the reality is that people need to want to engage and they need to want to change. If you are hoping it will suddenly make him a reasonable, supportive guy who suddenly supports you in ending the marriage when he’s been a twat all these years, you will be sorely disappointed.

More than likely, it will add fuel to his fire. He will pick up that one time the therapist said you should have been more forgiving, understanding, accommodating and he will run with it and use it against you. Get a good solicitor instead.

BIL and SIL did couples therapy when they split and it became this thing that neither of them could drop. They had been broken up and with other partners for 2 years and still going to therapy. SIL cheated multiple times and I think BIL was hoping it would make it stop hurting so much and SIL thought the therapist would eventually say it wasn’t really her fault because childhood trauma. And it became hard to end because neither felt like they got resolution, even while it re-hashed a lot of stuff. I think probably what they needed was time and just to sell the house and move on.

As a psychologist/couples counselor... Don't go into couples counseling with him.
Throughout the years he has conditioned you to believe that you're responsible for how he feels, and if you do anything to make him feel any negative emotion, that means you're a bad person.
This is false.
Going to therapy together isn't going to give you the justification to leave him. You're not leaving to make him happy, and although it would help you make the decision, you need to do this for you.
Standing up for yourself means you risk hurting someone. It means you might be confronted with people who don't understand or agree with your choices. It means you may not be liked or approved. But in the end, you're not doing it for the approval. You're doing it because you know very well that you're miserable in this marriage. And your happiness matters every bit as much as anyone elses. The only difference is that you're only responsible for your own happiness and he's responsible for his own.

I would advise you to get individual counseling to help you deal with the impact of the emotional abuse you've suffered.

Thank you both.
@Girlmom35 how do I choose a therapist. Do I need a physiotherapist? Or is a suitably qualified counsellor okay. I believe some of the reason I am susceptible to this relationship is my childhood. My mum and dad were quite critical, emotionally abusive.

You can find a therapist on BACP. Make up a list and give them a ring and see who you click with. Don't worry too much about different types of therapy, your relationship with the therapist is what's most important.