I think I’m finally ready to leave - can you help me?

[Finallyready79]

I’ve changed my username, as combined with other posts it would definitely out me if someone I knew were to read this! I am a genuine user, I’ve been here for years (cancel the cheque, penis beaker, etc). This is likely to be a long post, I’ll try to shorten it where I can.

i have been married for 21 years. I have been unhappy for other half of that time, but felt trapped. I’ve posted on here before about my situation. My husband is emotionally abusive towards me. I don’t think he even realises he’s doing it if I’m truly honest. He’s just a bit of a twat. The first time I mentioned divorce, we had 2 young children and he promised me that he’d never try to take the kids from me. We worked through things, and for a while, things were better. We moved home, then a couple of years later had our 3rd child (not 100% planned, but one of those situations of, “if it happens it happens”).

Things slowly became worse. He’d already been nasty to me, had slowly cut off all my contact with my friends, etc but he just became awful. He’d yell at me constantly, calling me awful names. Tell me to fuck off and die. If we had an argument he would shut it down by making himself look big (he’s taller/bigger than me anyway but he’d puff his chest out, lean over into my personal space, that kind of thing) and yelling at me his opinion/say and that that was enough. The conversation was over. I could never, ever win an argument - but he’d turn that around by saying I always had to have the last word and saying “see” if I tried to actually hash the argument out. There were 2 occasions he was physical, both times he threw things at me to deliberately try to hurt me.

myself and our children always felt like we were walking on eggshells around him. This has been true for as long as I can remember, right til present day (although our middle son does call him out on it when he’s in a room with him). When he’s not there, the atmosphere is so much lighter and better - like dark clouds have cleared away revealing blue skies and sunshine.

10 years ago I finally got the confidence up to tell him it was over, I wanted a divorce and I moved out of the marital bed. He disagreed that we were unhappy. I get two different, local estate agents to value our house - I had found one I wanted to buy (a new build) and I needed to get the house on the market quickly to release the equity. He refused to accept the 2 quotes, despite being almost identical. He felt it should be considerably more and claimed he’d seen other houses like ours for this much, much higher value (he added on about 15% of the house’s actual value). He refused to sign the paperwork to put the house on the market. He spoke to a solicitor. All of a sudden, he decided that he wanted 50/50 residency for the kids. I knew for a fact he had no interest in the kids at all (although he probably told the solicitor how he was dad of the year and couldn’t stand to be apart) - he never, ever did anything with them, everything was always me. As a result they were all very close to me, and not to him (they were 9, 7 and 3 at the time). Our 7 year old also got his dad’s wrath - constantly being yelled at and I’d have to get in the middle so our son could hear someone stick up for him and he on his side (I suspected ASD & ADHD but was fighting a battle - it has since been confirmed). I also knew that he wanted to hurt me, and he knew that would do it. And finally knew his solicitor would have told him to push for 50/50 to avoid paying any maintenance. I couldn’t leave the kids with him 100% of the time when I couldn’t be there to protect them from his, so I dropped the subject and stayed. I took my rings off and stayed out of the bed.

fast forward 10 years to now. It’s been a long, miserable time for me. I realise I’ve wasted the best years of my life on him. I also realised he groomed me and took advantage of a trauma he knew I had to reel me in. I also suspect that his true interest/taste is 16-19 year old girls/women. This just makes me feel sick.

I need to leave him. My 19 and 17 year olds can obviously decide where they want to live. But my 13 year old, who has begged me to leave his dad so he never has to see him again is the one I worry about. They clash a lot. I suspect ADHD in this son too. I think that my husband is of the children should be seen and not heard brigade. He also believed in smacking as a punishment, I didn’t. Anyway - if I were to leave and my 13 year old said he wanted to live with me 100% of the time, is this likely to happen in other people’s experience? I can’t prove any of the emotional abuse over the years. It’s subtle enough to make me question if I’m just over reacting. Then it happens again and again and again. If my STBXH were awarded any sort of residency (I cannot see how he’d manage 50/50 as he has to work away a lot and it can be very random, often with short notice - and I don’t think that would be given if my son really doesn’t want it. But I do worry that they might go for EOW (weekend)) and my 13 year old really didn’t want to go - would I have to make him?

in terms of leaving I have an idea, but it annoyingly relies on my parents. Basically, I think I can get a mortgage for £150k based on my salary (if I factor in child maintenance it could be more, but conscious that would end in a few years so don’t want to use that in my calculations). The house I looked at 10 years ago is back on the market…. And vacant…. And just reduced in price to “offers above £300k”. Depending on which house appraisal I looked at online, we have anywhere between £250k - £300k equity. I would presume a 50/50 split. I want to ask my parents if they are in a position to, and if they wouldn’t mind, loaning me the difference as the deposit for the house. I would then repay them once the old house sold and my equity was released. The risk would be how long it could take to sell, and it could sell for less than we hope. This would mean I couldn’t afford to fully pay them back. So I would ask that they consider gifting me that difference in those circumstances, as an early inheritance amount (they’ve just done something like this for my sister - basically given her the difference between the mortgage amount and the house value as an early inheritance gift- which is what gave me the idea of even considering to ask them. I would need my name removing from the current mortgage (we are out of contract term). I have no reason to believe my husband wouldn’t be approved for the value of the mortgage left whilst it goes on the market. He refused to move out 10 years ago and as much as I always loved this house, it feels tainted now - I want to start afresh. I couldn’t afford to take the current mortgage on and pay him his share of the equity. And to increase the mortgage to pay him out would be higher than I could afford. I believe it would be the same the other way around, so we would have to sell - but I believe this would give us both the chance to buy somewhere new each.

Thanks for getting this far. I feel sick, scared, excited, daunted…. I don’t want to back out this time. I have booked a phone call with a local solicitor for this Wednesday to have my free consultation where hopefully I can get some guidance. We absolutely don’t have money to be arguing this with solicitors.

Does my plan about the house sound feasible? I may not be able to get this house (although it sort of feels like a sign - although I don’t think I can go over £300k so have to hope they’d accept that) but maybe another one using this plan. So much relies on my parents though - I’m terrified to ask them, of admitting I need help…. When I left home my mum told me to be sure because once I left there was no going back. If they aren’t in a position to help with the deposit, I do feel I need to get out whilst we try to sell. Being with him there all the time last time is what wore me down and got me to cave.

What do I need to be doing now? What are my next steps? When do I tell him I’m done for good? I want all my ducks firmly in a row and ready this time. I can’t afford to be paying rent and continuing to pay my current mortgage - I have to be sure that by leaving I won’t lose my share of the equity, even if I’m not paying anymore of the mortgage after that date. And I have to be sure he doesn’t decide to stop paying the mortgage just because my name is on there too and it would screw me over to lose the house like that (screw him over too but I could imagine him not caring).

Thank you and please be kind. There’s a lot I haven’t shared around the emotional abuse stuff, I’ve given a very top level line to illustrate the kind of environment we are in. I’m now going to bed as it’s gone 1am, I’m up in a few hours for work. I will try to check in during the day for any replies.

TLDR - I need to know how to get my ducks in a row and practical advice on how to actually leave! And will a 13 year old be forced to go to his dads if he doesn’t want to.

Thank you so much. I’m so scared and part of me thinks it will just be easier to stay and continue as we are. I have to be brave.

Sorry, I’m making assumptions about the rental market where you are. If there are places big enough available that are affordable then go for it - and be prepared to act very quickly to secure somewhere.
And yes you do have £15k available!
Your solicitor will tell you better but my understanding is that divorce will need you both to disclose all assets and debts so I’d get proper advice on this.

Ref buying, you need to speak to a financial advisor

Some estate agents have free financial advisors in their office

Last time I consulted with a financial advisor, the maximum that they would lend me was 3x my salary & that was with a big deposit

So I strongly suggest that you get financial advise

A broker may lend you .ore

Renting would be the easier option to move out quickly

It won't be easier to stay though will it, you already feel you've wasted the previous years through not leaving sooner (not a criticism, it's easy to see why).

I agree with @Nottsandcrosses, you are being brave and just need to stay strong to get through the next few months. The money situation is difficult but you will find a a way.

Re your portion of the mortgage payment, could you ring the bank and ask about a partial mortgage holiday for 6 months? So ex still pays his share and yours is 'on holiday', and that gets resolved in the financial settlement once the house is sold. Worth finding out if that is possible.

Regarding your son, Ex would have to take you to court to force contact. He may choose not to do that - even if he threatens to, sometimes its just about avoiding paying child maintenance or hurting the mother who has left. But they often back off when it comes to going to court. . However, the courts do take into account what the child wants and why and if necessary there would be a court ordered CAFCASS report recommending what is considered in the best interests of your son. As your son gets older it will get progressively more difficult for you ex to force contact anyway.

Good luck OP.

You work

There is no need for you to stay one single day longer

Find rental property, view in person, apply, move

Watch out for scammers providing rentals online, which is why I said always view the property in person

You can also apply for divorce yourself

But I would move out first & spend some time alone first

Thank you all so much. I intend to do my own divorce application the second my foot is through the door of wherever I move to! I have a degree in law, although old now, but makes me knowledgable enough with these sorts of forms and things! I want to do as much as possible without needing a solicitor as that just benefits the solicitor most of the time.

I’ve been looking at rental options today. They’re borderline on affordable. However, my 17 year old is working full time. I hadn’t wanted to take rent from him, allowing him to save for his future (he’s due to begin an apprenticeship). He has offered rent multiple times, which could be the difference I need. The house I wanted to buy is up for short term rent, if I can show them I’m interested in buying it, I am hoping they’ll consider renting to me until the point I can buy it. It’s certainly worth a try!

Is there any other family or a good friend you could stay with while you sort this all out?

Renting your proposed new home sounds like an excellent plan! Talk to them today (decent stuff all goes quickly)

If you stop paying the mortgage, he’ll have to cover it or risk you both defaulting. So depends on whether you want to risk him doing that.

I’m unclear why you could not stay in the house until it’s sold? Can you not live separately within the house and still proceed to divorce? Or are you concerned about how awful that would be for you and dc /potentially unsafe?

I’m not sure how moving out will speed up him agreeing too, and going through with the sale unless it’s because you’re expecting him to cover all of the mortgage which will force his hand? You could be renting for years if he drags his heels on the sale.

You have to declare all of your assets and savings so will have to include your full pension pot. Frustrating as it is, the benefit might be that he sees financially what’s on the table and this puts you in a stronger negotiating position.

So pleased your parents will in theory support you - I hope they will be a moral support too now they know what’s going on.

I think you need to rent first. It will be too tight to buy.
Also , what if he refuses to sell again ?
wrt the 13 year old, I don’t think he can be made to go to his father’s.

@GiantSaucepan I just can’t stay a moment longer than I have to. I don’t know why, it’s like something has flipped in me this week and I can finally find my power to get out. If I tell him and stay I risk one of 3 things happening:

1. the atmosphere will be horrendous and we could be living like this for years still if he refuses to get the house put on the market and drags his heels on everything. I’m also not sure where I will sleep.

2. he will do what he has done before and get under my skin and find a way to guilt trip me into staying. First time he was making comments like he couldn’t believe he was going to have to start all over at 43…. I’m 45 now and I realise now he was fully of manipulative bullshit. The second time it was all the stuff around the kids etc.

3. I’m worried that if he realises i am really done now he’ll become physically abusive. My mum suggested I make sure I tell him when our two oldest sons are around - that’s all well and good but I work from home and he does a lot of the time too - I would feel constantly in danger.

I am trying to remember what else was said/asked. The pension thing I’m going to have to ask done questions at work because I don’t understand why the pension site would show one balance but then I go to a different internal web page and it shows a slightly different one. I’m beginning to wonder if one is just more up-to-date than the other as I really can’t see you’d need to add them together which would make my pot £80k more than what his was 8 years older than me. That doesn’t make sense!

something someone told me today got me thinking though. They said it’s important to get a watertight financial order in place because if you don’t, and you come into an inheritance at a later date, your ex can actually come after you for half of it?! Like WTF? My parents are worth well over 7 figures and he knows it. I’ve often thought it’s one of the only reasons he’s stuck around…. If he thinks he can decline everything to not get an agreement that would be awful. That said, his parents are a lot older than mine (his are mid - late 80’s) and I imagine they’d be worth a pretty penny themselves if he wanted to play that game. So I am hoping to just get something agreed. Surely if an agreement is simply made to leave each others pension pots alone, then I don’t have to work it all out? I have paid so much more into this marriage than he has, despite being a lower earner, I’ve been an absolute mug. Even now, he earns £40k to my £35k. we both pay 50/50 into the house account out of which all the household bills are paid. But he also puts his personal mobile, dentist appointments (he refused the chance to move to a closer practice and switch to NHSto stay with a private one 10 lines away) and contact lenses (because he doesn’t like wearing glasses) all up he paid out of the house account so I’m paying for half of that too. But then, out of my personal account, I am paying my mobile bill, 3 teenage boys mobile contracts, my own dentist costs (I didn’t go to a dentist for 7 years because “we” couldn’t afford it, but all the while he was still going), Disney+, Amazon Prime, Spotify family plan, Tesco delivery saver…. I’m fairly sure there’s other things too I can’t remember right now. At one point I was having to also work 20 hours a week in a pub to try to find more money from somewhere. I was also the one to be looking after all the kids needs. I had to get them into bed before any shift was starting for example, god forbid he had to do anything like that! I was run ragged, 60+ hour weeks not including commuting time (as I was in the office back then), I was physically and mentally exhausted. When I had to give up the pub after the owner changed and things weren’t working out, he did then look for bar work himself. He found one job. 1-2 shifts per week. But then he was staying behind at the end and spending half his wages on a couple of pints of beer instead of coming home (where he could have had a couple of cheaper drinks) - the extra money never seemed to make it to anything that mattered. He managed that for about 3 months then the pub closed so he didn’t bother looking again. I had done years.

omg look at me ranting away! Sorry! Better to get it all out here before he gets home from working away and I vent it all onto him and give my hand away.

to the poster that commented to call the estate agent - I’m going to do it tomorrow. What have I got to lose? I cannot see my ex shooting himself in the foot by not paying the mortgage. For one thing I’ve looked at rental prices of smaller places today and he’d struggle to rent for lower than the cost of the full mortgage, so in that respect it will be cheaper for him to continue! He will need the equity payout as much as I do if he wants any chance of buying.

my head is spinning today. I feel so tired - going to start trying to make a list of things tomorrow that I need to do.

So sorry to hear everything you've been through. I don't have any advice but I do have a similar experience to your 13 yo. My dad was abusive to my mum and brother when we were younger. My mum escaped with us, and not long after my dad tried to get custody of me. I was 12 at the time, and in court the judge basically told me I was old enough to decide what I wanted to do. I decided to live with mum, I still saw my dad but there was no court order in place. Looking back I was obviously very young and seemed an unfair decision to make, and this was 20 years ago so hopefully it will be the case with you too

@Finallyready79 If you ring fence any inheritance he can't make a claim on it. However if you spent it on improvements to the house which raised its value then he would benefit.

I’m talking bc about a future inheritance after we split. I had no idea that was even possible, but apparently without a watertight financial agreement, it is!

I’m so sorry you went through that. Where there is obvious abuse, the child should not be put through court and making that decision. And whilst I don’t want my son forced to see his dad, I don’t want him forced to stand there and tell a judge that! I’m guessing it will take a while to progress to that sort of stage. He’ll likely be 14 by then, even more mature in the courts eyes. And like the solicitor said to be today - they can say he has visitation or whatever the term used was, but how would they enforce it at that age if he really doesn’t want to go? I’m hardly going to be able to carry him out of the car!

As far as I know, my mum never reported it. She just wanted to get out. But point is, you're right, at 14 hes able to make that choice so id imagine if he didn't want to go, he wouldn't have to

I wouldn’t be buying houses and proving you can afford that before a settlement with court. Any reliance on family financially will afford him more of your marital assets. Go and see a solicitor and you may just keep the house you’re in to yourself. If you don’t want it past divorce, fine sell it. Unless you have gone to the police or GP about your husbands behaviour it just doesn’t count for anything. Also, his pension might be in your name but doesn’t mean it is yours to spend. Anyone on here is giving emotionally charged advise based on the fact your husband from what you describe is a bit of a dick. Courts don’t really care. Trust me. Get proper advice from a decent solicitor and take it from there.

Hi,

Thanks for this. I am absolutely not considering his pension payout as mine. No way am I touching it. To me it would feel wrong to do so - like stealing. I was uncomfortable about it ever being put in my name, but I got bulldozed a bit because they wanted to keep it under the tax threshold for the ISA’s or something.

Whilst I would love to stay in this house, I really cannot stay any longer in it with him trying everything he can to delay the divorce and the sale of the house. I also know that when we bought this house, it had been on the market for a long time, they really struggled to sell it. I worry with the housing market the way it is at the minute, we might have the same issue. I’ve seen a couple of other houses on my street on Rightmove and they’ve been on there for months. I really don’t feel like I would be safe in the house with him here.

I did tell my GP about the issues 10 years ago - I don’t know if she recorded it or not. I also saw a therapist for around 8 or so sessions and I told her about it all as well. But I don’t know how I could prove emotional abuse - he’s never put anything into messages or emails that would implicate himself, but thinking about it, I think there are times I’ve replied to a text in frustration and sworn. It was usually when he had called to ask about something we had already discussed at home and then he’d message me asking the same thing again so I’d be like “FFS I’ve told you this 3 times already” or similar - now I can see that in isolation without the context of the phone call(s) or the talk at home it looks like I’m the one being a dick. Now that I’m thinking about it, I bet he was advised by someone to get this kind of “evidence” so if I ever accused him he could say it’s the other way around. And I’ve walked straight into it.

anyway, point is without being able to prove the abuse, there’s no way I can get an occupation order to force him out of the house, and there’s no way he will leave without being forced to.

One of the things he does is drive really dangerously to scare us. He knows what he’s doing because we tell him he’s frightening us, or ask him to slow down because one day he’s going to kill us and he just doesn’t care. He had an accident with me in the car 7 or 8 years ago now, driving home from work early to pick up our youngest who had been sick at school (we worked for the same business and only had one car so had to travel together and he never let me drive) - it was really heavy rain that had come down super quick, lots of standing water on the roads. He hit a large bit of water on the road at around 70mph (on a B road) and we ended up in a hedge, my side pinned into the hedge, I wasn’t badly injured, but I was injured. Years before, going on holiday when we only had 2 children, his driving style caused someone to go into the back of us on a motorway (because it was ruled the driver behinds fault he always says it wasn’t his fault, but when you suddenly pull into the 3rd lane from the 4th (“fast”) lane because that’s closing, then slam on your brakes because everything is coming to a stop giving the car you pulled in in front no chance to stop with suddenly having less space, you need to at least consider if you hadn’t been driving like that, the accident was less likely to have occurred). I would be terrified of him driving the kids anywhere during that time - and I could imagine him removing me from the car insurance etc just to be sure I wasn’t able to drive it.

Hopefully that makes sense as to why I would be so concerned for the safety of me and the kids - it’s not just in the house, it’s the car too.

We have a family holiday booked for mid July (UK). I am wondering if I can keep it together until after that - use the time to get everything prepared and ready, find somewhere to live that starts after we get back. I don’t really want to be here any longer - but realistically it’s going to take a couple of weeks to get somewhere to rent sorted. The solicitor I have spoken with is off the week after next, and I’m away with my youngest next week camping. So it’s 2 weeks minimum to see her properly for advice.

I barely slept last night, he’s due home today and I’m just dreading it. The atmosphere in the house when he isn’t here is just so much better. But I’m physically in a better place than I was 10 years ago (I got really sick for a few years after that) so I know I can do this, I just have to make sure I have everything in place.

At this point I’d be asking myself what can I possibly do to get out of this awful situation as quickly as possible while I’ve got the drive to do so, even if it means some hard choices, in order to avoid losing another 10 years or the rest of your life because it will only get harder to go. Ask your dc to help with the rent, and be honest (within reason) about why.

What you’ve described here is abuse - including possibly financial abuse. I would document everything you can remember and speak to Women’s Aid, as well as share it with your solicitor and see what they say. Also tell them you have to move out because you’re afraid he’d get violent.

You know he’s going to get a solicitor - perhaps you could ask your solicitor when would be the key moments to pay for legal support and what you can do yourself. It could be the best investment you make. Is it possible your parents could help you with the legal fees?

Keep going, you’re all over this!

You can do it! I know you can. You will be free soon.