Partners with undiagnosed ASD - please share your experiences

[AIBU5]

Please be gentle...
I have known my husband for 8 years and I am quite confident that he's got a highly functional ASD. To preempt any criticism I have a medical background (It takes about 4-5 years to do a PhD, so believe me 8 years is more than enough to come to this conclusion 😂)
He lacks self awareness and has no desire to hear anything about this topic.
If you know you know what it's like to live with someone with ASD. It's been hard, but I have learnt to live my life like this. Being self sufficient and independent helps, but once in a while I get really fed up with him. Divorce? Nope, thank you, I am done looking for a perfect man.
So I just wanted to ask you, lovely people, who is in the same situation, how are you coping? AIBU?

@HibernatingtilspringI think there could be a male / female aspect to some of these things too, DH and I are both ND and can be extremely rigid and black and white about different things. I’m like you with intense planning and thinking of every detail, I used to lay out an entire outfit for dd, but if I forgot to put socks out dh wouldn’t think to put any on her which absolutely baffled me. I remember friends with NT partners joking about the same thing and wondering if it was just a male / female thing?

In other ways dh is focused on every tiny detail, like finances, whereas I get overwhelmed and can’t seem to think straight, we both have our different strengths and areas of intense detail and planning, can be beneficial but agree can also be to my detriment at times

If your relationship is the main cause of your health and mh issue, then ending the relationship is a valid choice.

Splitting doesn't have to be something he's done deliberately, it doesn't have to be someone's fault. You can still love each other and be bad for each other. If your needs are incompatible, then split.

@Ivyy yes, and there is often talks on Mumsnet of weaponised incompetence of men when it comes to childcare, life admin etc, but when it's mentioned they're ND it's all assumed to be down to the ASD rather than anything to do with their personality.

Honestly, OP, you don't sound happy at all. (The antidepressants might be a clue...)

It sounds like you are trying to focus on the issues you see as caused by his ASD, in an effort to compartmentalise this unhappiness and confine it to one corner of your relationship or one corner of your life. But actually it's not possible to do that. You are married to a whole human being, and you don't like the way he acts. That is going to permeate everything.

It also sounds as though you are desperate to stay in this marriage because you dread being single, and you have convinced yourself that "nobody's perfect" means the same as "I can't be happy with anyone."

@AIBU5 i followed a lot of these threads having dated a high functioning autist myself for a long time and was heavily invested/deeply in love. The common theme seems to be that children put a lot of stress on the relationship and the woman ends up taking the load/struggling whereas the ND man seems to just get lost doing his own thing.

I think if you are very committed to this relationship, you probably need to get more support from others in the same boat and understanding how they cope. That's why i added the long running thread. My relationship broke down because my then partner couldnt really handle the fact that i had children. There really was no compromise on his part - it was his way or no way, and i genuinely think he thought that was the best thing regardless of all the issues he himself had. He just could not see what he was like to live with. And it made me think how could we really work long term when there was so little compromise. And I often wonder how he would have managed had he had his own children - possibly the same as your situation. I guess im saying that an NT/ND relationship can be really hard work.

with all due respect I never used the word nightmare. Difficult - yes, challenging - yes, and using your examples, any person with MS who has self awareness and empathy will say - yes, absolutely, my partner's life can be challenging because of my condition. Your reaction seems to reflect your own frustrations.

What term should be used instead?

@AIBU5 yes my post reflected my frustrations that someone stating they're highly educated and experienced enough to know someone is autistic, would also make a blanket statement suggesting that autism makes someone difficult to live with.
I understand a person with MS would recognise the impact on their family. I don't think you'd get away with publicly making comments that people with MS are annoying to live with because of [insert symptom of condition] Yet somehow it's considered fine for autism. It is disabilist. It also seems to be a cop out at times - 'oh he treats me like shit but autism'. That's not how autism 'works'.

Again, you're assigning me the words I never used. I apologise if I offended you. I never stated I know how autism works. I just based my assumptions on hundreds of books and peere reviewed publications I read. I just want to be able to cope for the sake of me, our children and himself. And you could have offered your own perspective but you choose not too.

Are you on antidepressants to cope with your husband OP?

If a person is autistic, just autistic is needed as a descriptor. Some autistic people have high support needs, or non verbal or have learning disabilities/global delays but this is in addition to being autistic. ‘Functioning’ levels is a disambiguous term, it only has any meaning in educational ability.

"just autistic is needed as a descriptor" I wholly disagree. The severity of autism is very important information when coming into contact with those whose autism is extremely life limiting. Autism is not an all encompassing descriptor it is a neurological condition with varying levels of severity and should be noted as such.

There are specific long running threads where the poor spouses of autistic people go for support, maybe try them.

As someone who is autistic all I can say is do him a favour and leave him. Staying because you are fed up looking for the perfect man is fucking weird. Can you not manage to be single if this man isn’t for you?

It can be just as severe for a verbal person with capacity of understanding as it can be for someone who is non-verbal with a learning disability. Autism in itself is the disability that causes limitations in a person’s life.

And just as every other disability there are varying levels of severity. Those with extremely limited cognition and brain development are mostly ignored by the "Autistic Society". From my experience those who do not like sub types of autism are generally those whose behaviours etc are minor and not life limiting.

Either you want to live with your husband's behaviour and character traits or you don't. This would be the case whether he had ASD or not. Presumably he had these traits when you married him?

I strongly suspect my husband is autistic, as well as his dad. I don’t feel like I know his brother well enough to judge either way, but our nephew/BIL’s son has recently been diagnosed.

I do also keep an open mind - I also worked in education and have had some training/ done some reading but absolutely don’t understand enough to be able to be certain, it’s just what I suspect and sometimes DH indicates that he suspects the same too, although he would not be interested in pursuing a diagnosis.

For him, what makes me think is a level of social anxiety (which he masks very well but it clearly takes its toll), a complete lack of awareness sometimes of social norms or what would generally be deemed the right response in certain circumstances. Again, in many cases he’s learned the ‘right’ thing to do but we do sometimes still come up against issues where he can appear bafflingly rude or insensitive when he’s really not. I still find that hard to deal with sometimes because I’ve been quite upset in the past by something he’s said or by a lack of what I feel would be a suitable/ appropriate response e.g when I’ve been upset about something and needed some support or reassurance.

There’s other things - special interests, inability to let things go until he’s talked in a loop at me about the topic at hand on and on and on. Some sensory sensitivities - not around food but definitely clothes, he’s not bought an item of clothing in the 10+ years I’ve known him and struggles to find clothes that ‘feel’ right but also struggles to explain what he means by that.

It’s had an impact on our sex life too - he struggled sharing a bed at all for the first few years, an intense need for personal (physical) space at times then almost completely crowding me at others.

In our case though, he’s a bloody good man. He’s a great dad and although he does find our DC a bit overwhelming at times, he really does his share if not more than. He does also listen when I say what I need or what has hurt me - sometimes it takes a few conversations/ instances to sink in but he does then make a real effort to meet whatever need is or change a behaviour if it’s hurting me/ us. Where I find it hard is it doesn’t always feel authentic - if I’m crying over a bereavement now he’ll say the right thing and maybe offer a hug but if feels almost like a script he’s learned rather than a genuine urge to comfort me if that makes sense?

As for strategies - it’s hard to suggest any honestly if he’s not open to change or to hearing your perspective on things. I think if you really don’t want to split then it might just be a case of noticing and appreciating the good he brings to your life, and then finding the other aspects you feel are missing in your relationship elsewhere through friendships, work, developing your own passions and interests etc. I’m trying to do a bit more of this lately.

I actually agree with this. My kids are neurodiverse and they are the best for being straight up and no messing. I love that. No BS and all that annoying fake stuff.

Friday night. We’re in a bar listening to live music. Both enjoying it. I lean into DH (undiagnosed ASD) physically he recoils. I back off.

Later DH says shall we go, I say ok.
He asks me what the issue is. I say every time I contact you physically you recoil and it makes me feel so sad.

DH: the evening plummeted when you said you didn’t want to talk about my work any more. You never take an interest in me.

(…. he monologues about work for hours. It’s his special interest. I ask him all the questions I have until I run out. I really struggle to get him to talk about anything else.)

Me; we spent over an hour talking about your work and I ask loads of questions

DH: I haven’t mentioned all the issues I have with you.

Taxi home in silence. Weekend now in tatters.

Easy to say.

But it isn't really fair: -
what you think you can live with, or what you don't even see as a problem, due to love-goggles (or not being together 24/7) at the beginning of a relationship can become an issue later on.

People can't see the future.
People get worn down.
They don't realise all the implications or the effects.
Or perhaps what was fine before children, or other life changes, becomes harder when there are different demands on them.

And the other thing is, before marriage/living together and the big commitments like that, the partner was probably masking more.

It's nobody's fault, but it's unfair to basically say "you knew what you were getting into".
"Er no, not really. I thought I knew, but the reality of years down the line? No."

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I was besotted with my partner but in my case, the reality of children (mine) brought the truth out plus his kooks. Truthfully I could have lived with his stuff but it wouldn't have been easy. I can totally see how the stress of kids in general would have affected him. So its not as simple as liking it or lumping it. There was genuinely love there but it all came out later.

Following this thread with interest. AIBU5, I'm in a very very similar situation. It's incredibly hard. It must be, because I'm researching it on Mumsnet, which generally is a platform which I despise, lol.

Living with an undiagnosed and in denial autistic bloke brings up unique challenges for a NT woman. I don't think this area is discussed much because we are as a society, only just switching on to the problems faced by autistic people and are, quite rightly starting to focus on those, as autism has not been properly understood from an equalities perspective. Autistic people face discrimination, no doubt about that.

This means it can feel like jumping the gun to consider how painful and challenging it can be as a NT trying to raise a child and live with an ASD. I have read some posts from autistic people that show how complicated it must be as an autistic person, to try and accept that it is possible for someone to be both autistic and to suffer discrimination, at the same time as being difficult, upsetting, negligent, emotionally abusive and generally out of order themselves. And before you say 'non autistic people can be all of these things' yes of course they can. But we're talking autism here and the unique challenges of this.

Why is this so difficult for autistic people to get? I think it is because it is not a binary situation by any means.

Just because it is a challenge to be autistic in the modern world, does not mean it should be easy as a NT to live with an autistic person. You can't say "I have a hard time, therefore you're not allowed to have a hard time'. That doesn't work.

Here's the truth. Autistic people have the right to feel sorry for themselves for being misunderstood, but also need to be aware that when they have decided they are victims, they may be wrongly blaming others inappropriately, to suit black and white 'I'm right, you're wrong' thinking. Autistic people are prone to binary thinking which is often inappropriate. Autistic people often cannot consider the feelings of others when they need to, or express compassion and understanding when they need to. Or take responsibility for mistakes when they need to. This can be almost impossible to deal with in an intimate relationship and can even seem abusive to a NT.

A common feeling amongst NTs who live with an ASD therefore is loneliness and feeling unseen and unsupported. Autistic people can struggle with communicating. All these things are crucial for relationships.

Then there may be a host of other problems too. You can slam me for generalising of course, but if you have an autism diagnosis then many generalisations have already been made about you by medics or psychologists or teachers, and you have probably accepted at least some of them at some point. So try to step back.

AIBU5, all I can say is, I feel your pain! I'm hanging in there ATM for our child because to leave right now would tip the cart over and we would all be devastated. The day to day running of the house would collapse. But give me five years, and I'm afraid to say, I'm out of here. Sending you solidarity and fortitude.

It’s not clear to me from your posts whether it is him taking anti -depressants or you. It reads as if it’s you and that you are taking them as a way of coping with him - is that right? If so, then I think that’s sad and counterproductive. He is unlikely to change, so are you planning on staying on the medication for ever? What happens when your children get older and find their father hard to cope with? Will they need medicating too?

Ma'am, unless your husband has had a medical diagnosis of Asperger's, you can't be sure. Most male adults these days will have been watched for this in paediatric care/education. It's mainly females that slipped through the net. I'd guess your husband is in his 30s or early 40s, possibly younger. Asperger's was discovered in around 1989 my psychologist friend told me, though she could be out a little as there was SEN in the 1980s, though not called that I believe.

You sound as though you love him and you both get something meaningful out of the relationship. Perhaps he doesn't want the stigma of the label or perhaps he's not got Asperger's, perhaps he's just confident and comfortable in his own skin.

There's an awful trend in society to be self deprecating. Perhaps you could learn from your husband to be confident in yourself and really not care what other people think. Be yourself and live your life for you.

My husband doesn't have Asperger's but I used to be a midday supervisor at a school which had some students with Asperger's. The problems it tends to present are surrounding boundaries/respectful speaking. It sounds as though your husband is respectful to you, or otherwise you wouldn't be adverse to divorce. If you make each other happy, then what does it matter? If not, then perhaps you should re-consider divorce. For what it's worth, you're not being unreasonable to feel fed up. But you need to decide if it's a deal breaker for you or not.

Asperger's and other special needs conditions tend to be hereditary, so you would most likely have noticed similar traits in your children if so.