I don't get the desire to get engaged.

[Brightyellowspyrograph]

Maybe I am just cranky and old, but in this day and age with women having careers, being independent, raising children single-handedly, having equal rights ( almost ) in employment yada yada yada why do women go all gushy over an engagement ring?
We don't have to be passed on from fathers to our husbands like chattels as we once did. We mostly live with our partners before we get married and already have a partnership so why do we react like this man is going to carry us off into the sunset and save us from the shame of spinsterhood?
It's anachronistic for independent women earning their own living, with important job roles and responsibilities; to be desperately yearning for some man to put a ring on them to show possession.
I don't get it.
And yes I have been "engaged" (x3) and it is pretty meaningless. Being married wasn't all that either.
A good strong relationship is a fantastic thing. The support and love of another person that lasts is truly wonderful, don't get me wrong. But do we need this old fashioned rubbish?

If a woman wants an engagement ring and wants to show it off who are we to piss on her parade? personally i think engagements are lovely and i am very happy for people who want to get engaged.

Not so much my ex and his current partner who have just got engaged, the girl has been engaged so many times she has more stones than Thanos.

Because diamonds are beautiful. And no chance would I consider having a child with someone who doesn't deem me good enough to marry

There’s nothing wrong with some women choosing that kind of life for themselves.

'Who basically stand on their own two feet every day who behave like a pet being chosen by its forever owner. It's so one-sided.'

I agree. Rings,proposals,getting down on one knee - absolutely cringe and outdated. It's really depressing how many women still go along with it. Don't get me started on him asking her dad / parents for 'permission' first 🙄

Engagement then marriage - it's more or less the norm and probably affords more stability and security in the main. I'm long-divorced.

What does bemuse me are threads on MN that start: 'Me and DP have three kids together and been engaged two years.... blah blah'.

What is that about?

I’d love to be engaged. To know that the man I am with wants and intends to spend the rest of his life with me. But, I only want to be engaged within 2 years. For me, if it takes him 10 years to decide that I am “the one” then it’s not really worth it.

I was in a 6 year relationship and whilst I would’ve wanted to get married in the early days, him taking 5 years to decide if I was the right one had taken the shine off.

Tell us you are bitter with a chip on your shoulder without telling us you are bitter and have a chip on your shoulder! 😕

With respect I won’t be taking relationship advice from someone who has been engaged 3 times and then wants to lecture others of the drawbacks. It was good enough for you on ALL those occasions and nobody forced you to say yes.

I got engaged because I wanted to get married and it was a symbol of the impending marriage and our commitment to get married. I have a good career and job, but we wanted children and being a lawyer I’m aware of the advantages of marriage before children (provided the man is solvent, which mine is).

Oh and eleven years on I still look at my beautiful, custom made ring that my husband designed and smile.

Me and my DH walked down the aisle together as equals - I am not property to be given away.

Poor advice. Marriage is not great if the woman has more assets, earns more, is due a lump sum from somewhere.

In general, it’s really good advice. Women on average earn less than their male partners, I’m sure something like only 20% of women earned more than their partners, but it’s bigger than that. It is women who have pregnancies & take maternity leave which impact careers, it is typically women who have to stick with flexible jobs to be available for childcare/holidays, it’s typically women who get the phone call from the school when a poorly child needs to be collected- all of these things impact your career & earnings. Marriage means that if you’ve been part time , working in low paid jobs because you needed the flexibility or even have not been working to do childcare then you are financially protected when your relationship breaks down.

Obviously if you as a woman are the higher earner or have significant assets it won’t benefit you but for the average woman on an average salary who has children with a man, marriage is good protection.

It's romantic and lovely and why not .

Nonsense. We are equal, have been for 37 years.

(husband and I, not women in general 😁)

To me getting engaged means we have decided to get married and are now planning the wedding and next steps.

I think it’s a lovely stage because you know you’re both on the same page and have decided you want to be together for life.

I agree it doesn’t need to involve a diamond (I got my “engagement ring” 2 years after getting married…). But no harm if it does.

It does rather sound as if you are cynical because of your experiences.

Dunno, much of life is fairly dull, stuff to get excited about is nice isn’t it?

Of course you don't think it's as exciting when you've done it 3x 🤨

It did have at one point, I believe. I recall that it used to be possible to sue someone for breach of promise.

Back in the '50s, a relative of mine saw a solicitor and signed a document to say that the offer of marriage was still on the table.

I've always made clear to partners that I never want to get engaged/married. I've just never wanted to and I didn't want kids either. I've also discovered that I prefer living alone. My peace and freedom is worth the world to me.
I've met half a dozen men that have been serious prospects, but meh....it's all a bit overrated. Given the abundance of options, I find it hard to comprehend settling with just one person for life. My standards have gotten too high I think! Nowadays I have a lovely partner who lives separately to me and we meet up and have a wonderful time. We're a great support to each other. Luckily he is divorced and has no desire to get married either. If I had kids then I would maybe feel differently about marriage because of the security. But being a solo person my priority has been to develop my own financial security, which I have done, so now there is even less incentive to get married. It is starting to feel quite old fashioned to me, though I wouldn't judge anyone else for choosing it.
Engagement rings have never had an appeal to me. I don't like jewellery on my hands and wrists for a start.

I love the whole thing, but then I love a lot of these lifetime rituals and occasions. I was thinking about renewing my vows but apparently people tend to do that after an affair so I probably won’t

The best thing is to keep your career, not go ‘very part time’ and make yourself financially dependent on a man, whether married or not. He gets to advance his career while her earning potential is ground down. And what happens after divorce? She no longer has access to his high salary that she helped him achieve, and she’s back in the workforce earning a fraction of what she could have earned had she not abandoned her career.

So the advice isn’t ‘get married’, it’s ’keep your career’.

I never had a ring, (wouldn't mind one tbh😁) we just decided to get married and went and booked the register office for the next appointment which was 3 weeks later. We just had 2 witnesses and carried on as normal after, this was within 2 years of getting together.

The best advice is to make that decision for yourself.

I am PT.

I always grew up knowing if I had kids I wanted to be around for them. I was raised by two FT parents and don’t look back fondly on being dropped at childcare at 7.30 and collected at 6 each day. I was jealous of all the other kids being collected by their parents so I knew that was important to me if I did have children.

My “plan” was to have a good enough job that I still got paid a decent salary despite being PT, my plan has been execute perfectly and I’m so grateful I get the (almost) best of all worlds - accepting there is always some form of compromise.

Luckily your view is becoming increasingly outdated.

1. More and more women are outearning their partners
2. More and more fathers are taking extended parental leave (where I work men and women get the same amount of paid leave when they have a baby, a lot of other employers are following suit)
3. Fathers are much more involved in child-rearing than they used to be. I used to see as many dads as mums at pick-up when I lived near a school in London.

Why do people care about what other people do?
Focus that energy on passing judgement on other people's choices into doing something positive within your own life

Why doesn’t the other parent pick the children up from school? As I say upthread, I see as many dads and mums doing pick-up these days. You’re choosing to make yourself financially vulnerable - that’s your choice, of course, but it shouldn’t be advice to young women.

Especially when they’re already done it three times!